Okay, so I will be absent for the next 24 hours from a lot of messageboard activity, including posts.
I just got a new, handcrafted modem and am going to be rearranging my bedroom later today to accommodate the sheer bad@$$ computer that I have now!
$1,400 in parts, almost a full day of work on the computer with tweaks and such to operating software, hardware, security programs, and such were made to give me one of the best civilian computers available! It's so much cheaper than buying the ones that other's build, as those computers would cost double or triple what you can build by hand that's the same model.
So just giving you all ample warning that I will be absent from the messageboards for a little while and letting you know, albeit indirectly, why I was absent from the messageboards earlier.
And by High King, we're referring to like Skyrim High King. Like the dude Ulfric Stormcloak killed. Not as much of an Empire-puppet though!
A very good opera indeed, one that captures some of the grim Norse fatalism and grey morality, Eindrið!
But yes, most Norse tales begin in media res and have a distinctly grim tone for much of the story. This campaign will not quite be THAT dark, but it is pretty dark for a Pathfinder campaign.
EDIT: Also, interesting that you should mention that opera... one wonders whether or not certain elements of it made it into the campaign setting? ;)
Freezing sleet begins to fall from the overcast sky as if the sky itself were feeling the pain of those assembled, casting icy tears to rain down on the world below.
One of the huscarls, a grizzled, scar-covered bear of a man that Neve knew as Alaric Sturmgeist, speaks to her, his haunted eyes meeting her gaze, "There will be time for our tale to be told later, wise one, gifted of storm and sky. For now, we must lay our Jarl in his longhouse, that we may prepare the pyre ship for him and give him a proper sending. After his ashes swirl through the sky, winding their way to Valhalla and honored Donnar, then we shall speak of the terror in the endless white hell to the north, of the things that silenced our spear-din and made cowards of men."
A young man, barely of twenty winters, walks up to Asta and looks at her and her equipment. He looks at her with his one good, unbandaged eye, "Are you a free warrior looking for work? If so, sorry that you had to come all this way here only to find the wails of widows and grief."
He attempts a smile, which is quite obviously forced, "Well, you can always stay here until after the Jarl is sent on his pyre ship. No one will ask anything of you regarding the laws of hospitality, as is customary before a sending. I know my father wouldn't have asked anything of you."
Myra looks up from her sobbing and sees the young man talking to Asta. She runs up to him and gives him a hug, burying her face into his shoulder, "Snorri, my son! Thank the Aesir you are alive!"
She sobs into his shoulder and he frowns, "Yes mother, but not all of us were so fated. Where is little Anya? We must break the news to her, heavy though it be even on hearts as stout as ours."
She sniffles and tries to regain her composure, then silently grabs Snorri's hand and walks towards the longhouse.
Apparently, my post from the other day went the way of the dinosaur. I have posted again in gameplay, however!
This campaign is off to a rather cheery start, right? Lots of dead people, lots of widows sobbing, lots of men haunted by what they have seen walking with the weight of the world on their shoulders. To break the gloom, think of the Grumpy Cat!
Heading down to the beach, you see the sleek lines of a longship being drawn up onto the sand. The ship is a fine specimen, its prow carved in the shape of a snarling dragonhead, its wood polished to a golden brown, and its single mast straight and tall, a striped sail flapping in the breeze.
The men hopping down off the ship are scraggly and tired, but still exude an aura of strength and power. They do not, however, look as excited as the crowd that has gathered on the strand.
The cause of their gloomy demeanor becomes evident as the sailors greet their families, but not every family has a sailor to meet them on the shore. Some of the men are wounded and bear bloodied bandages. Some go into the crowd and offer consoling words to some of the women and children assembled.
Four men, bearing the traditional fur cloaks of a huscarl, carry a makeshift litter from the assembled ship, their heads solemnly bowed. On the litter is the body of a man dressed in fine chainmail and fur armor, wearing a black fur cloak with a golden chain clasp. His aged face is taught in the repose of death, his braided beard and plaited hair splayed out under him. Multiple gaping wounds appear on his body and the blood from his wounds appear frozen by the cold into scarlet crystal.
A well-dressed woman emerges from the crowd, her braided red hair whipping behind her. She freezes in her tracks when she sees the body on the litter and tears form in her emerald eyes, running down her freckled face a second later. She is clearly in shock, but manages to stammer out, "O... Olaf? But... what... how...?" She begins crying uncontrollably, her frail frame wracked by sobs.
A man emerges from the ship, also wearing the traditional cloak of a huscarl. He is a large, blond man with a barrel chest and a beard that hangs down to his collar in thick rings. He walks over to the sobbing woman and places his hand on her shoulder, speaking in a grave tone, "Myra, I am... sorry. Olaf, he... he died a warrior's death, for what consolation that offers you."
The woman beats her fists against the man's chest, "What happened, Hallbjorn?! Why is it that my husband lies here as cold and dead as the heart of winter while those sworn to him now wear death grimaces and hang their heads in shame?! You were his huscarls! You were meant to protect him! WHAT HAPPENED?!"
Hallbjorn hangs his head further, his countenance grim, "Aye, we were to protect out honored Jarl and we failed. What there was... what we encountered in the lands far to the north..." He pauses for a moment, then takes his hand off of her shoulder, "No... I cannot speak of this, not now."
Hallbjorn slowly walks towards the Hungry Havershack, his every step seeming pained. The crowd, now somber and solemn as the grave, parts for him. He slowly opens the door and looks back at Myra, the Jarl's widow, and hangs his head in defeat, then slowly closes the door.
The crowd, those not still asking after their loved ones at least, disperses into the cold mists to go back to their homes and mourn for their dead, for their beloved Jarl.
It was said that the Jarl and his men were some of the mightiest and most fearless warriors in the Northlands. What could they have encountered that slew so many of them, those who were well-versed in the spear-din and who spilled much battle-dew? What could have inspired such fear in some of the men that they fled, leaving their honor in the frozen lands of the Ulanat? These questions and more come to your mind, but are silenced by the sheer enormity of the situation.
Oh and since people asked, hibachi was good! We've determined that we will probably eat there every other week so that we can get some chicken hibachi in our lives! After all, $8.50 is the cheapest that I have seen hibachi go for outside of Japan, where it is obviously about the price of a regular meal at around $5.00.
You are sitting in Halfstead's tavern, the Hungry Havershack, wiling away the day around hearth, basking in the comforting heat emanating from the stack of pine slowly burning in pit. The fire casts a warm glow across the inside of the building, illuminating the various patrons and the finely carved tables that they drink at, tankards and drinking horns all around.
Numerous decorations, ranging from the impressive racks of some mighty Elk hanging from the wall, to the exquisite rugs made out of the pelt of a fearsome polar bear, to numerous charms and tapestries dangling from the rafters, all add to the ambiance of the Hungry Havershack
The air is festive, as is common in Northland taverns and longhouses. Laughter and raucous music echoes off the fern walls and the sweet, heady smell of mead and roasted Ox wafts to your nose.
Outside, you hear a commotion is starting in the streets. Looking through the window, you see that people are moving briskly, some running, towards the beach.
The tavern door opens, and a young Northland boy sticks his head in. “The Long Serpent has returned! The Jarl is back from his sealing expedition in the lands of the Ulanat! Come, quickly!". He runs outside, exuberant at Jarl's return.
The people in the tavern let out a hearty cheer and storm outside to see their Jarl's return. Outside the window, his Dragonship can be seen cutting the ocean mists like a mighty beast emerging from the fog of war.
It is no surprise that the boy is excited about Jarl Olaf Hendrickson's return. He is a man among men, a sea reaver of no small skill who was once in the employ of High King Ejrik Weissritter before the latter's coronation. The Jarl is as generous and fair in his dealings with the people as he is fearsome in battle.
And thus begins the epic tale that you are a part of! What will you do now? Will you stay inside and bask in the tavern's accommodations? Or will you go greet Jarl Olaf Hendrickson? Or something else entirely? Your choice, people! :)
Ah man, there was SO much anxiety making these choices! Apart from one or two concepts that fizzled out early on, I think everyone did exceptional, so kudos! The candidates are (Do forgive the puns!):
2. Asta Ingendotter, reformed daughter of the most metal furry ever!
Mageknight/Shifter
3. Ragnvald Hrolfson, the man who went to Hel and back!
Harbinger/Occultist
4. Einar Hakon, regular dude that met the demon pig!
Fighter/Rogue
5. Einarr Lawspeaker, that Skald guy with a magic reindeer!
Skald/Cavalier
6. Neve, the wise and wonderful weather girl!
Druid/Incanter
In case people were wondering on my criteria for selecting, there were a number of factors.
1. Character concept, of which most were exceptional.
2. How well they would mesh in a group, which most did.
3. Number of posts, because I plan on making 2+ posts per day, if possible.
4. Enthusiasm, which was generally high with most applicants.
5. History of drops, of which I tried to make sure that people were not compulsive drop-and-disappear type posters. Checked out well with most.
6. Opportunity for mythic that makes sense, as I like for the whole 'epic destiny' type thing. Most were pretty good regarding that.
7. Ultimately, there were so many good ideas that I had to make a list and just make arbitrary choices from 12 candidates.
All in all, I believe that I have made a good decision and selected an AMAZING team that will do this campaign justice!
If you were not selected, please keep an eye out for my upcoming Kingmaker campaign, which I will be posting sometime tomorrow. Plenty of opportunities to be awesome there, for the shield-din will be strong in that campaign!
Those who WERE selected, please report to discussion and confirm that you are in the game. The campaign begins in earnest tomorrow once I have a full-party check-in from each one of you.
FOR GLORY OR DEATH, SHIELD BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!! *Slams shield hard with a bloody sword three times*
Recruitment ETA is around 6 hours from now, give or take an hour or two. I've got to pacify and calm down my girlfriend for having to cancel our hibachi dinner date, so it's probably aiming towards the 6-8 hour range.
Einar Hakon, [url=http://thethegns.blogspot.com/2012/04/boar.html]Here is a quick run-down of boar symbology in Early Germanic/Norse folklore.[url] What the website does not say is that black boars with one tusk were regarded as being mystically connected to the Devourer aspect of the goddess boars were said to be connected to, thus symbolizing death and ruin. What do you think of that symbology now?
One more day until recruitment closes and selections begin! Who among you will rise above the rest to join the spear-din and let loose the roar of victory? Only time will tell! Well, assuming my name is time anyway!
Just checking in to let folks know that I will make my selections in two days, allowing Shady_Motives the opportunity to create his character. Once that period of time is up, selections will be made. I know, finally, right? I just wanted people to have enough time to fine tune their characters before I make my selections.
Hjálmarr Magnusson, I believe that everything is in order with your character, as far as I can tell. That said, I have been up around 48 hours with a few hours of microsleep occurring due to my body physically forcing me to sleep, so I may have missed something. No worries though, I will re-review your character after I get some sleep tonight.
Well, the world is set up like the real world during the Viking era, to some extent, so if you have any regional language that you would like a conversion. Now, obviously, some landmasses are changed around, renamed, and reflavored, but they all follow a general rule/idea based on real world analogies.
Ulanat is the only other humanocentric regional language, apart from the Common tongue obviously, that I know for a fact will be used in the campaign. Where you wanting specific regional tongues just for fluff or are you taking some of the other humanoid/planar/monster tongues?
The campaign recruitment will probably close in 3-5 days.
El Ronza, the Stranger mythic path is allowed. I will just, figuratively speaking, hand-waive any Fly checks for natural flyers to hover in combat, so as not to clog up the thread and, let's just admit it, it isn't realistic that a creature that flies for most of it's life to have to make Fly checks for so simple of things. In fact, I will only ask for Fly checks situationally, such as when there is a strong wind or it is targeted by a spell that impedes it's flying or something like that.
Rednal, I would allow Inspired Spell to do as much, though you will need to clearly state, in parentheses next to Inspired Spell, what class spell list that you would have access to. Which, I presume, is Druid, correct?
Brynja Østergård, no worries. The list mainly helps remind me who is still in the running for the campaign. I remember most details about characters once I see their names. For instance, I just saw your name and remembered that you had 52 maximum HP, the math of which I'm not going to check until the last day or so of recruitment. Another example is that, if my memory serves me correctly, Asta Ingendotter has Common, Giant, and Sylvan as her chosen languages. So don't worry overmuch about your concept getting lost amidst the tide.
I am here. I did not see any questions to reply to although, as has been the case before, I may have missed a question. If you have a question, it would probably be best to post it again so that you can ensure that I did not skip over it accidentally.
Philo Pharynx, you may gain an equivalent amount of fast healing, but regeneration is not something that I am too fond of in my games, primarily because it usually makes 3/4 of all monsters and foes irrelevant unless the DM fudges the game and decides to metagame, which makes the game a lot less fun for both parties involved.
Thunderbeard, Tundra Orcs would likely have some aspects of Northlander culture, but be far more savage. This is obviously a generality, but the matter still stands.
DekoTheBarbarian, message me and we can figure out how to work in a reflavored Zen Archer.
Bandw2, there are some pretty good descriptions of the gods on the first post. Have you looked those over?
MordredofFairy, I joined these messageboards about a week before I first posted and after chatting with Fallen Herald, since he obviously seemed to know more about PBP than me with the way that he set up his recruitment, decided to ask him for advice. He was nice enough to point me towards some basic PBP guides and let me utilize his format of recruitment posting, both of which were useful since Paizo is a bit different than Obsidian Portal in terms of players, expectations, and things of that nature. Now, I don't know what axe you have to grind against new DMs, flakes or no flakes, but it is downright rude and uncivilized to throw around things that are, at best, thinly-veiled accusations towards people that you do not even know. I know that the way some play by posts work can be downright annoying and DMs that drop their campaigns without warning can be obnoxious, but not everyone who starts a new campaign is that sort of guy/gal. I understand your frustrations, but this sort of attitude does not help things. Still, I will not hold it against you, so long as you make good on that apology once you see that this campaign shall not suffer the same fate as the others that you have seen fail.
Monkeygod, hey, don't worry about the whole blow-up thing. I'm sure he's just frustrated. I wouldn't write him off as a fellow gamer just yet. I do appreciate you coming to the defense of someone who you don't even know, so props for you. Since you apparently know Fallen Herald, let me know if he resumes posting, okay?
Rikash, there is a good bit of seafaring while traveling. It is not QUITE as heavy of a thing as it was in actual Viking history, but it does have a good amount early on. Later on, less so, apart from a particularly awesome ocean scene or two near the end.
Thunderbeard, Path of War is allowed. Þakka þér for the list, by the way!
Oyzar, I did not set a hard deadline to close off recruitment. I will close it once I feel that most serious players are finished. You still have some time!
Eschaton, Elves are regarded with equal parts reprehension and awe by the Northlanders due to their connection to the mythic forests near the entrance to Bifrost.
Hjálmarr Magnusson, Orcs are viewed in a mixed light. On one hand they are worthy foes in battle. On the other hand, however, they are often shunned for their primal, bestial ways, as well as the dishonorable tactics that their race seems to use in times of war.
First encounter with the Paizo Post-Eating Beast. :/
Anyway, everyone needs a general idea of their chosen mythic path by the time the game starts so I can figure out what mythic levels will look like and all that high-level jazz.
Brynja Østergård, you have very good artwork too!
Warhawk7, Escheton is correct.
Shady_Motives, recruitment is open for about another week, so feel free to submit a Northlander.
Monkeygod, no, the characters are not mythic yet. BUT they will be in 2-3 levels after the campaign starts, which means that you have a bit of time before you need to make hard choices beyond the basic Mythic Path that you wish to take. Companion upgrades are rather loose with how I'm doing them. I am, of course, letting mythic 'pets' gain a Mythic Template from the original Mythic Adventures book. BUT I am also letting you choose something flavorful for your pet(s). You could make them dire, give them a template or two, or even make them a similar creature, such as your wolf turning into a winter wolf or worg, for instance. ALL mythic pets, however, gain sentience and, at your discretion for roleplay purposes, can actually gain the power of speech.
Ragnvald Hrolfson, VERY interesting indeed! The Archmage mythic path WOULD work for Psychic spells, by the way, since they are still spells.
Nate Lange, where is Fell's background? I believe we discussed portions of it via PM, but I want at least a placeholder background.
Einar Hakon, interesting! You do know the significance of a black boar with a single tusk in Norse lore, right?
Thorgrim Ulfsson, I would rule that the White Haired Witch power DOES give a +4 bonus to grapples with the hair. After all, it states that you gain the Grab ability and that is part of the ability, is it not?
DekoTheBarbarian, you could either just handwaive it or, for story purposes, you could learn the secrets from a huscarl belonging to one of the Jarls. And, in this setting, crossbows are relatively rare, being the primary weapons of the Ulanat who use them to hunt seals and polar bears. They are vanishingly rare amongst the Northlanders themselves, mainly used by those who have had extensive dealings with the Ulanat. The Ulanat's crossbows are made of polar bear bones strung with the aforementioned bears dired and cured entrails, which makes a surprisingly flexible and strong string that can take a lot of draw.
Asta Ingendotter, Escheton is correct, though you may reflavor the books as necessary to suit this campaign.
Oyzar, yes.
Kyra Stormweave, d20pfsrd, as it is the errata before Paizo releases the official errata.
El Ronza, if you can let me know what the class gets and such until I can purchase the book for my own PDF library, I will allow it.
El Ronza, I do not have the books. I am considering allowing it, though I would need an idea on what it does. I read it is similar to Magic of the Incarnum from 3.X. Is this true?
Nate Lange, I thought that I sent a private message to you? But yes, I do like Fell as a character. And, considering a few plot points in the game, he could get VERY interesting.
Bane88, yes, PM my account.
Escheton, Blade of Mercy can be reflavored for a different deity. As for who it would fit, Eir, the Valkyrie/Minor Goddess of Healing would be a good fit. She's pretty much like the Sarenrae of the Northlands because she is considered the most merciful of all the divine beings in Norse mythology. She is not widely worshipped and, as a Valkyrie, her worship is roughly equivalent to worshiping one of the Empyreal Lords.
Adam Warnock, resend it, if you will. I don't know if I got it.
Monkeygod, any idea on what mythic upgrades you might want your companions to get?
Thorgrim Ulfsson, those two do interact in a way that allows you to accomplish such a feat.
Warhawk7, one feat every level is what I was aiming for. I rather liked the idea once I saw it on these messageboards.
Brynja Østergård, is that DeviantArt page yours? If so, kudos! I find the picture of your character an interesting choice, considering what the inspiration was.
I am back from a recent foreign aid deployment, the repacking and trip home of which was quite an ordeal, and making a few adjustments and tweaks to the campaign to suit a few of the more 'unique' PCs that I am planning on selecting.
I have not jumped ship on this campaign, despite not posting for a few days. There seems to be a dedicated bunch of posters for this campaign and I want this campaign to be played, so you will probably have to get my account banned for me for that to NOT be the case!
Just out of curiosity, which campaigns were you guys talking about? I copied quite a few rules from a gestalt Kingmaker campaign that, sadly, doesn't seem to have progressed beyond the recruitment, but other than that, all I can think of is that Fallen Sons and Daughters of Heaven recruitment that I saw up when I first logged on to these messageboards which was, partially at least, the reason that I felt this game could survive in PBP, due to the massive amount of interest homebrews get on Paizo as opposed to places like Obsidian Portal.
Now, let me attempt to answer everyone's questions.
The campaign begins in mid-Autumn as far as the seasons go. This season has been one of the coldest in recent memory, so it is, for all intents and purposes of the weather, almost like Winter.
Pathfinder Zoey, you may take the Spire Defender archetype, reflavored of course. It is expected that Oracles who receive Cleric powers use their charisma modifier instead of their wisdom modifier.
Wondering_Monster, that's a good question. My answer is 'enough time to get from point A across the sea to point B across the sea' in some portions of the storyline. If you want to do some coastal raiding during downtime, that's entirely up to you.
Moon Papa, the Tetori archetype is compatible with the Unchained Monk, though as with most of the Asian classes and archetypes, it will need a reflavoring.
Hotaru of the Society, Seidr, or Norse magic, often used runes, staves, bells, and hollowed out animal horns as magical implements. A horn carved with runes and golden attachments would be VERY appropriate for conjurations.
Escheton, pre-game crafting will be allowed.
Karthan Stonemason, the best languages to take, apart from Northlander Common, is Ulanat Common, Jotun (Giant), Sylvan, and Aesiran (Celestial, also the language of Runes). To a lesser extent, Dwarven, Elven, Draconic and the Dark Tongue (A combination of Abyssal and Infernal mostly spoken by those who follow Loki's evil children or the darkest of the Vanir) are all useful tongues to know. The four elemental tongues will have a VERY small cameo in the game, so if you want, those could be marginally useful as well.
DekoTheBarbarian, Mythic Heroes supplements are allowed.
Rednal, who here knows me? As far as I can tell, no one does. Unless someone knows a man by the name of Ejrik, I do not believe that is the case. Still, if people want my phone number or possibly one of my social media accounts so that they can keep in contact with me, then I have no problem doing so. Also, out of curiosity, did you find a GM to run you through a solo campaign or no? If not, I had a somewhat odd idea for one the other day while watching an old Anime clip that I had long since forgotten about.
Nate Lange, yes and yes. It also makes the 'alchemy is magic' argument less contrived. You may also ignore the errata on Arcane Deed and Slashing Grace. Some of these more recent nerfs were rather pointless.
Moon Papa, those are allowed as player characters.
TarkXT, interesting, especially if you believe in the obscure piece of lore that Yggdrassil the World Tree has a dark shadow that exists in Hel, a Tree of Death.
Tormod Torson, any level that you feel comfortable with.
JonGarrett, it is allowed.
DekoTheBarbarian, so he is part Frost Giant then? I ask because of story purposes. *Finger pyramid*
Mimesyne, for favored terrains? Cold applies to nearly every terrain. Water and Underground are good second and thirds, since those are almost the only terrain types that are not explicitly covered by cold.
Monkeygod, awesome. Now, for the race, the Ravenfolk from Kobold Press's Midgard setting are VERY good picks. They have a distinct Scandinavian/Norse mythology feel to them and get some pretty beastly archetypes, among other things. Read Endzeitgeist's, AKA Thilo Graaf's review on them. Skinwalkers and Were-Kin are also viable options.
Rednal, you're not bound to your initial character concept, so feel free to change it up until the date that recruitment closes.
Mimesyne, you can write up as long or as short of a backstory as you want. I like well-crafted backgrounds, a concept which does not have much correlation with length.
Hotaru of the Society, Heimdall is probably best represented by the Archons, due to their focus on order, vigilance, and such.
TarkXT, ah okay! I have heard so many definitions of switch hitter that my mind just goes into gutter mode when I hear it and assumes 'swingers, orgies, ect.'.
Nate Lange, the Klar is fine. I imagine some Vikings in the real world had to make do with makeshift weapons when their broke and swiftly grew more adept them than the typical sword/axe.
Hotaru of the Society, yes. Which deity were you planning on your character descending from?
Escheton, hmmm... describe what psionics is to that character.
Oyzar, you can switch it out for something equivalent. Swashbuckler would work with that feat, yes, as would the archetype. You're really good at throwing hammers! Marksman is allowed, but reflavor the psionics part.
Hey, this is the GM that issue is happening to. It worked fine when I created recruitment and discussion threads but, for some reason, will not let me create any more. I go to submit the post and it shows up like I clicked the preview button. Does anyone know how to fix this?
Now I can't create ANY new threads! I went to create a thread on under website feedback to get some aid and it is now doing the same thing! Can someone create a thread in website feedback requesting assistance? I figure that will be quicker than waiting on an e-mail.
Oyzar, Prodigious Two Weapon Fighting is a legitimate way to do so without penalty. Regarding the STR-DEX replacement feat for ranged weaponry, I know there is a feat like that, but I can't remember the name. It is allowed in any case. Just try to find the actual name and reference for me, if you will.
I presume you were wanting to handle this via spoilers? In any case, I will allow that. The gods were not always kind to mortals and it only makes sense that their worshippers would not be.
Still, I must warn you that many important figures in the Northlands would be quick to label someone who violates the laws of hospitality as níðingr if all they cared about was profits and not honor and that is a bad title to get.
So long as you abide by the laws of hospitality and honor, when applicable, I don't see much of a problem.
Oyzar, forget the errata on the White-Haired Witch, as that errata was pretty much garbage as as far as I can tell. Why make a melee-grapple archetype for someone with poor BAB and THEN penalize the abilities they gain? Never really made sense to me. I would allow something like Hammer Master as a feat, due to the nature of the campaign.
Black Dow, all of those are allowed, as I have the Northlands book. This isn't the same Northlands, but it is much the same in most regards.
Lyesmith, that is indeed appropriate for the campaign. In fact, some faithful Viking warriors would inscribe 'scar blessings' onto their bodies in the hopes that the gods would favor them in battle and grant them power. It is somewhat obscure, but it was a historical thing. You could either theme it as ritual scarification or tattooing, both of which are nearly identical in concept.
