DrowVampyre's page

Well...she could dip White-haired Witch - that would get her a natural attack with Int to damage. If she picked the Prehensile Hair hex, it'd get her a secondary attack too, with Int to hit and damage on that one...there are also wizard schools and sorc bloodlines that use int or cha to hit and damage, but only a few times a day.

I think your math is wrong on the aasimar bard variant - you say you'd have to take 12 levels of inspire courage to gain anything, but you'd be fast-tracked actually - at 4 you'd get your first bump (counting as 6), at 8 your second (counting as 12), at 12 your third (counting as 18). It could get pretty nasty with a dawnflower dervish, especially, although bladethirst would be nice too. Too bad they both have hard caps...

Also, duh, sorry - I just noticed that the nonstandard races are in a different section. But with azata-blooded I'd definitely rate them higher, personally - dex and cha, glitterdust SLA, diplo and perform bonuses? Want!

I have a couple questions here...firstly, the Dervish Dancer - you've got it rated really high, but most of its abilities are dances, so they don't stack, unless I'm reading it wrong.

Also...what about Aasimar as a race? They've got the +1/2 level to a performance as a favored class option - that could be very nice. Especially on a dawnflower dervish...

Speaking of dawnflower dervishes, do we know whether they lose normal party buff performances? The way I read it the dance is an option and they keep the normal too:

its really hard to offer specific advice without specifics about character creation... what's the point buy (some builds work way better in high point buys)? what pantheon are you using and how much freedom do you have to make up new gods? PFS acceptable archetypes/PrCs only?

if you're not worried about optimizing damage why don't you think about a monk? you can flurry with a temple sword and pick up crane style early- that way you'd be a single 1-hander 'fighter' with a bunch of tricks up your sleeve. like any monk, this works better the higher your point buy. you could use a light monk weapon and weapon finesse or the sensei archetype to be slightly less MAD (a QingGong/Ki Mystic/Sensei would be pretty interesting- mystic wisdom would let him apply any QingGong effect to his teammate...)

another interesting option might be to look at a cleric? if you're neutral channeling negative energy you could take channel smite and guided hand at 1st level(though you'd need an appropriate god with a 1-handed favored weapon like a longsword or scimitar/rapier). if you take destruction and strength [ferocity] for your domains you can add both smite bonuses to each attack (up to probably 8 attacks each day, which is enough most days) plus channel damage when desired, and you get your Wis mod to attack rolls (its a good build for an Aasimar too, if they're allowed). this, obviously, wouldn't be as effective as a straight combat class in a fight but it would add other benefits to your party of 2- like healing, control and summoned meat shields. they have a good excuse for keeping one hand open too- to cast spells!

a bard would be another option. dex build, pick up dervish dance as early as possible. they have the same excuse for keeping one hand open and would also add some useful options like buffs, skills, healing, and some utility spells. the dervish dancer would fit nicely with the theme or the archivist would add trapfinding to your options.

magi are specifically designed to fight with a single 1-handed...

Sorry Nate, it'd be 20 point buy, Golarion deities, no additional gods. Not PFS only, but nothing terribly outlandish either.

I don't want to do monk as primary just because it doesn't really fit what I want to do (and I've never liked the look of temple swords). I do intend to play a monk at some point, but that would be for unarmed. I don't really want to do cleric, for a couple reasons: 1) having full casting will be bad for me, because if I have the option I WILL invariably end up using it to do all the horrible things full casting does, and I'm trying specifically not to do that, 2) I don't really do very well with religious characters, and 3) if I was going with a divine caster I'd go oracle, because I have a special kind of hatred for prepared casting. Bard WOULD be good, but I just got off playing a bard in my last game so I don't really want to go the same route again, and I played a spont magus in the game immediately before that, so same deal there...

So looking at the Swordlord PrC, it doesn't seem so great honestly...it gets dex to damage, but only if you aren't using anything including unarmed strike on the other hand - that negates the extra attacks for snake style or TWF with it, and seems like it would suggest going single style crane instead. The other bonuses seem geared entirely around demoralize, except the one for reducing combat expertise penalty (which you wouldn't do because you'd be doing fight defensively for crane and the swordlord archetype bonuses) and the additional ac, which is nice, true... Student of War seems like it would be a better PrC to jump into to me, honestly, what with the 6 skill point and boosting of the will save, and the know your enemy flexible bonus...

The MoMS styles dip lets you get the Crane Style/Crane Wing/Crane Riposte tree fairly quickly. Since you can do two styles at once, you can also look at Monkey Style (to take no penalties for prone), the Panther Style tree (for more AoO fun), and my new favorite, the Archon Style tree (divert attacks from your allies). (Snapping Turtle Style isn't helpful for Aldori Swordlords, but useful for other one-handed weapon wielders).

Lore Warden gets you all knowledge skills as class skills and two extra skill ranks per level. If you're building along with a regular group, you might ask if anyone else has the knowledge areas covered. If not, Lore Warden might be the way to go.

And yes, definitely check out the Aldori Swordlord prestige class. You can also take Dervish Dance as your second level fighter bonus feat and then retrain it at 4th of 8th level after you get into the prestige class.

We won't have knowledges covered - it's gonna be me and likely a cavalier headed into hellknight. I haven't heard of Archon Style there...where's that from, and is it better than Snake for the extra counterattacks?

It seems like dipping magus for 1 level doesn't really help though - yeah, you get a teensy bit of casting and weapon focus/prof, but you lose a point of BAB (more than cancelling the focus) and delay your fighter abilities. Wouldn't a second level of monk be better, for the bonus feat there that ignores prereqs and the BAB point that comes with it?

Also, MoMS is better than Maneuver Master even if you're only getting crane? It seems like Maneuver Master would be just as good with a single style, but allow you a free disarm on top of everything else with a full attack too.

I'm taking it Swordlord is the way to go here rather than Lore Warden then, yeah? Oh, and about the bodyguard things...I'd rather not focus THAT much on it, because there's likely to be only a single other group member - I have to be able to do enough damage to cover the gap there, I just don't want to go as high as I have in the past with very hitty magus, barbarian, inquisitor, and summoner builds...

Hi all, I've been away for awhile but am just about to start up a new game, and I'd like some advice. I've never really built a fighter before, but I'd like to play one in my upcoming game so I could use some help...

The idea would be that she's a single 1h weapon user. I know, bad idea, but I intentionally want to lower my killy factor because my GM gets annoyed when I slaughter things too easy and I'd rather her not get irritated this time. That said, I want my character to still be good and extremely survivable, as we'll be playing with just 2 characters most likely.

Right now, I'm trying to decide between a lore warden or a swordlord to pull this off. Either way would be fine, and I can go str or dex based either way, though thematically I'd prefer my character to be dex based (she's the agile fighter sort), just not enough to burn a ton of extra feats and gold to bring to an even playing field. I'd like to keep a decent bit of damage, although I know she won't be a damage monster - the AoO generating things would be really good, though, if possible. I've been looking at the swordlord guide, and the retributive build looks interesting, but I'd like to get some opinions on other options as well (also, why MoMS as the monk dip there, if anyone knows, rather than Maneuver Master?). Thanks in advance!!

You just can't disagree with people regarding sexual matters in a civil manner.

You can if you stay respectful about it. I do with my stepdad semi-regularly (different issue, but gay marriage is hardly a non-sexual matter in that regard).

You did it yourself earlier, actually. You disagree, you said why, and while your reasoning is wrong (imo), you didn't attack anyone and were still respectful.

To both Drow and Alexandra, even if you believe that 3.5 is arguing in bad faith and is in fact a bigot or a troll, consider that if that was his aim he did a fairly good job at it. He got exactly the response he was looking for. It is fairly easy to do this, stir up anger and then step back and go "Look, see, I told you THOSE people are crazy and can't be debated with. The name calling, the attacks!" I don't believe he did, but then again using the word BS was pretty strong, so I don't know. I tend to assume people debate or argue in good faith unless there is strong evidence to the opposite.

I remember talking to my grandparents and others about the civil rights movement for African Americans. What made it so successful was how peaceful and restrained protestors often were even in the face of abusive provocation that made the opposite side look more and more monstrous the harder and harder they tried to provoke the protestors into a violent reaction because then it could be pointed at as "See! I told you THOSE people are savage and violent!" It's not fair, and it's not easy. It's an uphill battle with the deck stacked towards the people that seem more "normal".

Baiting is often incredibly easy because people are so passionate about a cause it only takes a little to make them look crazy or irrational because the...

You're right, but at the same time, he's the one that started with it so trying to step back and say "Look, see, I told you THOSE people are crazy and can't be debated with. The name calling, the attacks!" would be pretty ridiculous on his part, no?

Also, he didn't just say that transgendered people are "BSing" him, though that's bad enough - he specifically said that he would be confrontational and aggressive to them because of that twisted belief. He would refuse to treat them with any kind of dignity, and somehow thinks that he has the right to determine what someone is better than they do (because he considers himself an intellectual despite the subject matter being unrelated to his field, presumably). He then goes on to effectively taunt Alexandra by calling her just "Pitchford", and when called on it, what does he do? He doesn't apologize, no...he posts a little smiley. Trolling much?

That's what gets me - it's not his ignorance, because plenty of people are ignorant and yet can treat people with basic respect and dignity. People in this thread have demonstrated that. Ignorance isn't something to be derided for - everyone is ignorant of everything until they actually learn about it. No, it's the hostility and arrogance in refusing to treat an entire group of people with basic respect and acting like he has the right to do so that I condemn him for.

Somebody like me who comes in here sees 3.5 being logical and respectful, and then a chorus of people shouting in his direction for daring to hold a different belief or opinion about something and calling him ignorant, intolerant or a pseudo-intellectual.

If you believe 3.5 to be wrong present rational arguments, actually cite facts and studies and present links.

First, he wasn't being logical and respectful. He was being openly ignorant, arrogant, and intolerant, and intentionally trolling by all appearances.

Secondly, people have presented a mountain of rational arguments that he simply ignores - he has to actually want to not be ignorant for them to have any use. So far, he has shown exactly the opposite. He doesn't just hold an opposite viewpoint, he pointedly noted earlier that he would be hostile and confrontational to transgendered people based on that viewpoint. There's a word for that: "bigotry".

Moreover, he's trying to sound like he's coming from some kind of expert place when by his own words this is not his field, so it doesn't matter at all how many degrees he may have - they aren't relevant to the subject matter one bit.

Now, if he'll start showing some actual respect for people, then I'd be happy to talk rationally - so far, he hasn't demonstrated any of it, and has, in fact, been utterly disrespectful, baiting, and extremely intolerant...hence my last comment. And I insulted what he said, not him, or at least he could prove me wrong and suddenly change his tune...but I highly doubt he will.

I am certainly all for tolerance,

No, you aren't. Practically every single post you have made here makes it abundantly clear that you have no interest in tolerance, whatever you may claim.

Now, Hoplophobia, you on the other hand are being logical and respectful, and notice the difference? Even though people (myself included) may disagree with you, it actually is a rational discussion because unlike him, you aren't being abrasive, intolerant, and willfully ignorant, and if you'd like for me to track down study citations I can try to do so, although I no longer have access to the academic journals I used to so I may not actually be able to.

The DM/GM might not allow some of those? And if they are relative newbies to Pathfinder, Summoners and the Leadership feat might cause more problems than they fix.

Possibly - obviously if not, then don't take them, but without such guidelines mentioned I figured they were worth suggesting.

And if the whole groups is new, no, you wouldn't want to do that, but with the GM giving them 50 point buy it seemed they were likely more experienced and only the OP was relatively new (and was interested in playing the bard, which wouldn't be any different than a bard in a smaller party for that player, just more effective for the group as a whole as it gets larger.

I would actually still say a bard is a good choice...just not a base bard. Personally, I'm a fan of Sound Striker and Dawnflower Dervish. <_<

Also, small parties love Summoners. Master Summoner just laughs at "we only have 3", and even normal Summoners get effectively 2 actions to everyone else's 1.

I would actually advise staying away from "pure" specialists, although you certainly can do it with 3 of you (I'm used to playing with only 2). But, for example, if you were looking at being a melee character, go ranger rather than fighter and you're also a skillmonkey.

If you want to be horrible to your DM? Talk with the other players and go Master Summoner/Druid/Bard (in this case do go normal bard, or rather one that keeps the strong party buffing...you may only have 3 party members, but the summons, the summons!!!). And everyone get leadership. Because why have a party when you can have an army? ^_-

Just a quick note to Pres Man - I'd disagree that our bodies are as much "us" as our brains, but I do understand the argument. However, as long as you treat someone as what they want to be treated as (like you say you do), that's what really matters.

This, however:

Is it bigoted of a heterosexual woman to say she won't date women, even after those woman have become men? Maybe, but there is some validity in that view as well.

is a different situation. If she won't date women, that doesn't apply after a transgender man becomes a man. That doesn't mean she'd want to date him anyway, though - there are any number of things that go into that, so unless she would date any man except the transsexual man, she's not bigoted (and even then not necessarily, so long as she treats him like a man - it's no different than simply not being attracted to people with a certain body type, a certain facial shape, a certain skin color, or whatnot - if you treat them well, as what they are and not what other people would call them, there's no bigotry in not being physically attracted to them).

I don't recall the specific studies off the top of my head, but pH is right that they're not exactly hugely widespread, although I'm not sure they ever will be given the manner in which they have to be conducted and the lack of the general populace's care for research into something like that (and thus the ease with which it could be funded).

However, I kinda think that's secondary - if someone says she's a woman, she's a woman, period, end of story. If someone says he's a man, he's a man, period, end of story. The brain construction, while very interesting and supportive, shouldn't really have any impact on that. I only even brought it up to counteract an ignorant and, in my view, hateful viewpoint on the issue.

Except it is entirely correct - autopsies of transgendered individuals, both those who take hormone replacement and those who have identified as transgendered but do not treat it, show that brain construction is as they identify. So unless you consider people born with birth defects (say, being born without gonads, or working ones anyway, whether those are ovaries or testicles) as not what they say, then transgendered people are exactly what they say.

It's a birth defect, and like any other, it doesn't change who they are...it simply means that society has mislabelled them and that ignorant and/or hateful people insist they are something else.

Well, you see, when a character sheet and a set of dice love each other very much, something maaaagical happens... <_<

There's not really a way to tell, because it's a self-identifying thing and one attached to (in the US at least) a very strong stigma. From what I recall though (I may be wrong, so don't treat it as solid), estimates range from 5-20%, so...yeah.

Even then, though...assuming it's only 5%, that means 1 in 20 nobles would be homosexual. Think of us as a natural 20. ^_-

For me, I'd say Archetypes...I love those. <_<

And I think...Rogues looks neat. ^_^

Atarlost wrote:

A lord must reproduce to maintain the system.

Only if you slavishly subscribe to historical models of primogeniture and the like. In one of the kingdoms in my homebrew setting, each noble appoints a successor from among the populace of his or her estate, based on who he or she thinks will rule well. He or she can just as easily pick the stableboy or the milkmaid, rather than a first-born child. Gay lord or lady? No problems with succession.

And even if you do apply them, it still doesn't matter - in a patrilineal society, so long as descent from the lord could be proved, he could be gay and see reproducing as just another duty (something to be done, but not enjoyed, before he can go back home to his husband/boyfriend). In a matrilineal one, it's even easier, since descent doesn't have to be proved - the lady could just pick whoever she thinks will give her child the best genes, put up with the act itself, and then go home to her wife/girlfriend at the end of the day.

Elves...definitely elves

Remember though, what's good for one is good for all - that would mean, if it's played that way in PF, you can freely advance on large monsters from diagonal as well.

Gauss wrote:

Correct.

Thanks. Just wanted to be sure because of both mentioning the full-attack action. Manyshot seemed somewhat weak, to me, if Rapid Shot couldn't be combined with it.

I don't believe the two could be combined in 3.5, so I was hoping that this was changed along with the other changes to the two feats for PF.

You're right that they couldn't combine in 3.5, because Manyshot was a special standard action then, while Rapid Shot was a full-attack option still.

Well, books are preferable, but other formats are fine too. Really, it's not just for me, I'd like to have a reference place for anyone who wants this kind of thing since it can be very tough to find on your own.

You just hit two of my hot-button win-switches - congrats, I'll be buying this release day (well, PDF release day...no bookshelf space ;_;).

A member of my gamer group (and friend for over 20 years) refuses to read any book written by a woman, has a woman as the heroine, or even as a primary character. He even chafes at having a woman playing at our table, but he keeps his mouth shut (Mostly. He still grumbles under his breath about it).

Here's a quote from him: "Women should not be the hero and get the reward at the end of a story. The hero should get the woman as part of HIS reward."

Yeah. That's my bud.

...In the interest of not starting a flame war, I won't mention the thoughts I'm having about your "bud" right now. Suffice to say he would not enjoy what I would wish to see done to him.

Most of those kinds of threads are theoretical - people enjoy theorycrafting, but it doesn't mean they play those characters. Most people aren't terribly fond of rocket tag, and playing those CharOp beasts would lead to that veeeeery quickly. Thus sayeth Pun-Pun, thus shall it be. ^_-

That said...I certainly wouldn't want to play a "generic" PC, personally...I do like to optimize to an extent, but moreso I want my characters to be fun to play, not cardboard cutouts.

My favorite one was back in high school, years ago (shortly after 3e had come out I think). I had a habit of ruining the DM's plans badly, and he kept coming after me, specifically, with worse and worse stuff. Well, at this particular time I was playing my elven sorceress and had just gotten 4th level spells, and the party (against my and another player's advice) had split up.

Well, the DM gets this evil grin and informs me and the guy that was with me that his homebrew demon, the...child of the BBEG at the time, teleports in next to us. This homebrew demon is, effectively, a balor/pit fiend equivalent...we were level 8. The guy playing the halfling rogue turns pale, because he's sure we're about to die (this demon is known for being particularly bloodthirsty), and I figured we were too, but I wasn't gonna just give up.

So...DM calls for initiative, and I win thanks to a roll of like 5 on his part. I had just picked up Phantasmal Killer (yeah, it's not a great spell, but at the time I was just excited to get my first SoD even if it had 2 saves <_<), and I figured...what the hell, let it ride. I cast PK, make my concentration, and breach its SR by 1 with a natural 20. The DM just looks smug, cause even though I beat the SR, there's no way this thing is gonna fail 2 saves in a row like that, right? He rolls...2, 1. His jaw literally dropped open for about 15 seconds or so, and the whole party (even those who weren't there) is cheering and ribbing him about it.

For background, this elven sorceress had a habit of doing things that should be impossible - the dice gods must have loved her. She'd get captured and put in...precarious situations regularly (high school boy as DM, I'm the only girl in the group, you can figure it out from there -_-) and pretty much every time the party would come to rescue her, and she'd end up rescuing them after having freed herself and begun escaping to find them in hot water in some manner or other. <_<

Sphere of Annihilation would be good too, if you can somehow keep him from getting control of it and using it against you.

...Pun-Pun? <_< Seriously though, what you basically want here is a ton of actions, so...lots of gated in celestials (or hell, demons or something even)spaced out enough so he can't hit everything. If you get enough of them, there are enough natural 20s and such that one of them will get through with a SoD or whatever.

Likewise. ^_^ Good luck on the award race! You deserve it!

What would you suggest as a better curse? Haunted seems like it would be pretty bad for a melee-type.

Tongues is the "I don't want a drawback" one, just try to get the rest of the party to pick up whatever language you take with it.

211. when you spent 3hrs ting to figure out the math in pathfinder

oh and let me save you some time and sanity
x=lvl
fighter BAB=x*1
cleric BAB =x*75-.5
wizard BAB =x*.5-.5
good save =x*.5+1.5
bad save =x*.33-.33
then round up

211a. You play too much Pathfinder when you spend 3 hours figuring math in Pathfinder and come with overly complex calculations instead of simple ones:

medium BAB: x * 3/4
low BAB: x * 1/2
good save: x/2 +2
bad save: x/3

Drop all fractions.

*coughs* <_<

Bard spells per day levels 1-4: =MAX(MIN(ROUND(0.016835*((Level-(3*(SpellLevel-1)))^3)-0.301227*((Level-(3* (SpellLevel-1)))^2)+1.96765*(Level-(3*(SpellLevel-1)))-0.753968)+MAX(INT((C haMod-SpellLevel)*0.25)+1,0),5+MAX(INT((ChaMod-SpellLevel)*0.25)+1,0)),0)

I have the other ones too, but...too lazy to translate them all over. <_<

The only good orc is a dead orc. We should make more good orcs.

+9000. I despise orcs, really...to the point of annoying my girlfriend when we played WoW by doing everything in my power to kill every orc in any given area before moving on. <_<

Honestly, though...why would you need to play an orc? They may be playing orcs, but you can make your own character to not be an orc - maybe a mercenary human who will grudgingly work with them for the right price, or an <insert race of choice here> alchemist with her head buried in her schematics to the extent that she doesn't really see them as orcs, just "those big fellows who carry my things and like to punch people," or a manipulative sorceress/wizard/etc. who basically thinks "this lot are too dense to realize I'm using them, and if they ever figure it out I can always run into town feigning panic and let the guard deal with them for me."

That's messed up, I would be unhappy. Also, the DM has just endorsed crazy "stacks of papers with explosive runes" style attacks. I'd start spending my downtime casting it a ton. Then keeping those papers in a box...in extradinensional storage till it was time to be used, to prevent backfiring. With holes just large enough in the box to allow line of effect but small enough to prevent papers blowing out. Have someone throw it, cast dispel on it, and enjoy your mini-nuke

My favorite version is casting it on thin strips of paper, then gluing them around an arrow's shaft and shooting it into the target (thus denying them the save since it's touching them). Incidentally, that also makes Arcane Archers pretty nasty, since they can make the area dispel go off from the arrow wherever it happens to hit (and use their other arrow powers if they want to on it). <_<

I would have replied. "Yes, but since the envelope is sealed and the envelope doesn't have the runes on it there's no line of effect to the runes, and besides, the envelope is in my handy haversack anyway." <_<

I don't have a document with them written down, so undoubtedly I'm forgetting a bunch, but...

Weapon Finesse is automatic, you just choose to use it - if you get the feat too, you can add Dex to damage (I much prefer the fast, agile fighter to the brute as an archetype, as does everyone I've played with recently).

Spell school changes - a bunch of spells are moved around, especially all healing being turned to Necromancy (cause seriously...it's life energy. It'd either be necromancy, transmutation, or evocation, I have no idea how conjuration even enters into the picture).

Polearms can be used at reach or adjacent, chosen at the beginning of your turn to last until your next.

Minimum HP is 1/2 die - reroll until you get at least that.

Depending on campaign and number of players, often 2 skill points extra per level and 2 extra class skills (I tend to play with smaller groups, it helps to cover the bases).

Crossbows can be bought at increased strength the same as bows. They can be bought higher than your own, and take no penalty to fire for being made that way (since it's a...crossbow... <_<) but do increase their reload time by 1 step for each point of strength past yours (free>move>standard>full>full+move>etc.)

As someone mentioned above, Heighten Spell just happens when you use a higher level slot than needed.

TWF tree is condensed down to 1 feat that does the same as TWF, ITWF, and GTWF on its own.

Mindless creatures, even undead/demons/etc., are always Neutral. Sentient creatures may or may not be, depending on the individual, but there are definitely trends (basically, undead/outsiders/etc. work the same way alignment-wise as humanoids and the like, though it's admittedly rarer to find things like nonevil demons).

I'd like to see one with more skill uses. Sure, GMs can do that already (and should), but it'd be neat to have some ideas (with sample DCs) for thing skills could be used for that aren't already listed in the main rules, both in and out of combat.

LazarX wrote:

Except that there is no such beast defined in the ruleset.

In the equipment section of the CRB:

Masterwork Tool wrote:

This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items do not stack.

It can be cheesy, and some DMs may not allow it. But it's a possibility.

Don't forget the Circlet of Persuasion too (4,500 gp for +3 to all Charisma based checks is nice <_<).

DrowVampyre wrote:

chaoseffect wrote:

You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.

I assumed they were low level still. ^_- But no, not with paladins. I tried to play one...once...after one session the group unanimously declared I was never allowed to play a paladin again. <_<

Ashiel wrote:

stuff about her character

...Your paladin...sounds awesome. If people in my groups played paladins like that instead of the stereotypical overeager boy/girl scouts, I'd probably be more inclined not to wince whenever I hear someone's going to be playing one. ^_-

Thanks much, actually. She was a blast to play. Everyone in the group seemed to love her. She was easy going, but very strong willed. She stuck to her principles. Ended up having a romance with the party's Lawful Evil Hellknight, who she convinced to be a little less hardcore in his methods (so I guess she got him to be LE with LN tendencies?).

Any time. ^_^ You've very quickly become one of my "she's involved? read the thread!" type posters because of this kind of thing (and the kung fu dragon from the monk thread ^_-).

On topic...I don't think I've ever done this specifically, because I tend to make my characters to fit the party (or rather, I tend to have a bunch of ideas for them and pick which will fit that particular party best), but now I'm tempted to not tell people what my next character is and let them figure her out for themselves.

You're not a very good minmaxer are you? When I'm a paladin I always replace that stick with an immovable rod ASAP.

I assumed they were low level still. ^_- But no, not with paladins. I tried to play one...once...after one session the group unanimously declared I was never allowed to play a paladin again. <_<

stuff about her character

...Your paladin...sounds awesome. If people in my groups played paladins like that instead of the stereotypical overeager boy/girl scouts, I'd probably be more inclined not to wince whenever I hear someone's going to be playing one. ^_-

Crimson Jester wrote:

Well while my group is used to it now, it typically took several levels before they realized I was a Paladin.

That's strange. It took them several levels to make the DC 0 perception check to notice the stick up your arse?

Maybe the stick was buried so deep that they couldn't see the end of it? ^_-

Seriously though, these kinds of things are great. Awesome job to everyone for making your concepts work regardless of what people's preconceptions might be.

DrowVampyre wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Very, very awesome!

First off, to keep to the current topic, I agree with the absolute awesome-ness in that adventure idea. Especially with the PCs approaching a massive vault with loot-hungry eyes, and bringing about the calamity by their own actions. Some players might shrug off the guilt, but as a story I think it's pure 'gold.'

Additionally, I like the 'sin-eater shadows' in general. Anything that adds more flavor to undead and their origins, rather than making them the "I am the spawn of pure evil incarnate, bleagh~" kind is good stuff in my book. I'm trying to re-imagine ghouls in a similar way - driven to commit atrocities like carrion cannibalism ought to show more signs of madness than simply being evil. Still evil, certainly, but evil being battled against within the psyche of the undead creature, perhaps.

Thanks! I'm glad you both like the ideas. ^_^

I still find myself wanting to try to come up with positively-aligned interpretations of undead - essentially creating more specific versions of the 'deathless' from Eberron. For skeletons/zombies it's pretty easy; for the more specific forms of undead I'm getting able to create these levels, I'm finding more difficulty. The interpretation of shadows you mentioned is great, and I may very well use that as inspiration when Create Undead, Greater rolls around at 16th level. But does anyone have ideas for the more physical undead? To give some specific things I'm thinking of trying to change, through rules caveat or more created spells or whatever else, I'll provide a small list:

-Ghouls/Ghasts hunger for the flesh of sentient mortal corpses, and spread disease with their natural attacks. I tend to think being infused with positive energy would change much of that, but maybe not? Maybe the positive energy allows them to be sated, but they still crave that as much as dead flesh? Maybe, as a white necromancer/juju oracle, you'd find yourself having to cast Cure spells purely to sate your awkwardly constructed creation? Instead of spreading disease with an attack, maybe they start imposing the penalties one might have from not eating for a number of days (of course no death from starvation - it would obviously be limited to imposing penalties or fatigue/exhaustion).

You could go with something like this, depending on what specific flavor you want for them. Set's suggestion above is neat, to me - undead vinebound bee-carriers is definitely a new angle, and I could totally see naturey communities loving that (guardians for an elven tree city, for example, or a druid's sacred circle, or whatnot).

You could also have them give off positive energy, which would be...a very specialized use, to be sure, but doable. Positive energy will still kill, if you're exposed to too much of it, but at the same time if you were injured you'd be getting healed by being near the thing, and it would be pretty much the ultimate anti-undead thing (think of a phalanx of these things defending a town against a horde of normal undead - they'd be healing each other for being near, harming the undead they were in melee with both with positive energy and whatever weapons they have...).

As far as flavor, you could make it so that instead of infusing them with negative energy and them having a warped version of the consciousness they had before, they could be animated by the essence of a spirit/outsider from the positive energy plane, or even be something like the reanimated corpses of fallen paladins who still wanted to fight for goodness, or of good outsiders who were permanently tethered to the material plane, or something along those lines.

-Wights thirst for the lifeforce of living beings, which is sated through their level-draining natural attacks. How would this be altered by positive energy? I've had a hard time imagining it, since force-feeding positive energy seems like giving it the very thing it hungers for. Would it become perfectly sated, and being so, simply collapse/become undone? The direct opposite of energy-drain would likely be healing and instilling temporary hit-points, but that wouldn't functionally work on a natural attack. I'm really at a loss here - and realizing that basically creating a string of custom-made creatures just to satisfy my character's ambitions is becoming much more hassle to me and my GM than it is helpful to the story.

Wights are easier, I think. Keep the level draining, but reflavor it - instead of being them sucking the lifeforce out of someone (that seems like Con drain to me anyway, actually), say that their attacks pierce the soul and force their target to face the evils it has caused. The level drain would be coming not from actually growing weaker, but from their spirit fighting itself, not just in an "I'm torn about what to do" sort of way but literally fighting itself and thus weakening them as much of their energy, consciously or not, is turned to stopping that internal conflict - if they make their saves later, then they did so, if they fail them, the "good side" won and left them weakened by all they had done, until they get a blessing from their dark deity to set them "back on the path" (restoration, etc.) or whatnot.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here...obviously the arrow itself isn't subject to the sickened condition (even if it was, it's not making any rolls, so...).

If you're talking about a sickened target being within the burst, though, they would take the penalties, as sickened does penalize saving throws and that has a Reflex save to negate. If you were sickened, it wouldn't really do anything, because you're not actually making any rolls either (it has the Reflex save and affects a burst instead of an attack roll and affecting one target).

Wouldn't you still want Imporved Trip as a gateway to Greater Trip to get the AoO on the trip and when they stand?

Dovahkiin, Dovahkiin naal ok zin los vahriin...

Wrong kind of dragonborn? Damn, that's the kind I actually like too. <_< ^_-

Seriously though, you're asking people to create an archetype with no information about the archetype other than "it's dragon people related". You could go so many different ways with that it's practically impossible to even begin - if you give some details about what you want it to do, as opposed to what race you want it associated with, that would help.

They don't hate the mechanic itself, but the lack of flexibility it gives them. That's an interesting idea, though, and I'd have to compare its possibilities. How many spells per day and spells prepared per day would you suggest, say, a 4th level wizard have in such a case?

Same as they currently do, they just have the flexibility to cast what they want within that.

That's probably not going to convince any of them to play a prepared caster if they hate the mechanic. Honestly, what I'd do if they don't care about power issues is this: make the sorc and oracle archetypes of the wizard and cleric, exchanging all non-spellcasting stuff for the bloodline/mystery stuff. Then have it work like in Arcana Unearthed (I think it's that anyway - Monte Cook's alternate PHB), where you prepare a number of spells per day but then cast within those spells spontaneously (so you prepare, say, magic missile, shield, mage armor, and grease - you can spend all your spells per day on mage armor, or on magic missile, or one of each, or whatever, but you have t o ait til you prepare again to change your list; metamagics work by preparing silent fireball or whatever, but otherwise follow the same rules as any spell).

It may not be "errata" like some people desire but James Jacobs made his stance very clear on the subject here.

That...is actually saying exactly the opposite. <_< From the link:

The rules as intended and as they should be interpreted are that you only get to cast 0 level spells at will. Once they're prepared with higher level spell slots, they follow all the rules for how higher level spell slots work.

Allowing all cantrips to be cast at will despite that spell slot you used to prepare the spell is an interesting house rule, though.

He's saying if you prepare a cantrip in a 1st level slot, you use the slot up when you cast it. That is in no way the same thing as "of you can prepare a 1st level spell as a cantrip, you do not use it up when you cast it" and, in fact, reinforces (in my opinion) the view that it would count as a cantrip, as what matters is what slot it's prepared in, not what its base level is.

Maybe a construct limb?

Along the same lines, you could do a demonic graft or the like, if you're looking to replace the hand.