Polearm master - a good archetype?


Advice


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For making that reach opportunist is the Polearm master fighter the best way to go? (especially if you're using trip?)

What weapon is best?

Besides combat expertise and improved trip what other feats are synergetic?

Dark Archive

Yeah, they are amazing.

Whirlwind lone is great; especially enlarged. You can trip everyone around you within 10 feet (or 20 enlarged), whereas most don't threaten close (first 5/10 feet).

Horse Chopper has the "trip" wOrd, so can be Dropped in the event of an emergency. Luceren hammer is highest damage.

Combat reflexes is the best early feat. Here's the line for trip-fighter (human)

1) Improved trip, Dodge, combat reflexes
2) Combat Expertise
3) Mobility
4) trade improved trip or reflexes for spring attack, whirlwind attack
5) get back traded in feat
6) Greater Improved Trip
7) Lunge
8) Power attack
9) Weapon Focus
10) Weapon Specialization
11) GWF
12) GWS


Hmm looks like human is really the only way to go.

The only shame here is the speed decrease I'll get from armor

I think you'd have to take dodge at level 2 since ce is required for improved trip.


Thalin wrote:

Yeah, they are amazing.

Whirlwind lone is great; especially enlarged. You can trip everyone around you within 10 feet (or 20 enlarged), whereas most don't threaten close (first 5/10 feet).

Horse Chopper has the "trip" wOrd, so can be Dropped in the event of an emergency. Luceren hammer is highest damage.

Combat reflexes is the best early feat. Here's the line for trip-fighter (human)

1) Improved trip, Dodge, combat reflexes
2) Combat Expertise
3) Mobility
4) trade improved trip or reflexes for spring attack, whirlwind attack
5) get back traded in feat
6) Greater Improved Trip
7) Lunge
8) Power attack
9) Weapon Focus
10) Weapon Specialization
11) GWF
12) GWS

I don't reckon you can get Imp Trip before you get the Combat Ex.

Don't forget about the feat pin down. It takes fighter level 11, but it allows you to use an AoO to cause an enemy to stop moving. Your first instinct may be, "Imp Trip does that!" And it does, when it works. Pin Down works against anything. Dragons, Oozes, Flying monsters (people forget the fliers), etc.

When doing reach, I'm also a fan of Combat Patrol.


I am playing a polearm fighter right now and I am loving my Guisarme.

Do note that Weapon Focus and Enhancement Bonuses apply to your CMB. This really makes tripping easier.

Take Combat Reflexes. You can attack people standing back up. And you can also attempt to trip people walking into your "dead-zone". This really makes having no shield easy to bear.

I also discovered today that "trip" weapons can also apply other attack bonuses to Disarm and Sunder attempts. Further weapons which can "trip" can also Reposition and Drag and you can apply those same bonuses to those maneuvers. (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom).

Also as my DM pointed out with Reach you could perform combat maneuvers at range which provoke an Attack of Opportunity as per usual on yourself. But if you do this at range then the foe may not logically be able take advantage of this free attack granted to them.


What if I skipped the 4 feats required for whirlwind (and whirlwind itself)?

Would you recommend sunder, disarm, or vital strike?

Also what are your recommendations for dealing with MAD? obviously you need at least a 14 dex to truely take advantage of combat reflexes, what do you recommend for replacing heavier armor?


breastplate should do ya. Overall, AC should be similar.

Dark Archive

You should still wear full plate; you can take all of the benefits of high dex without the AC from it; so just wear full plate and accept dex +1 to your AC (for a 20 total).


Don't bother getting a trip weapon. If you can miss the CMD by more than 10 you probably shouldn't be trying anyway.

Try the glaive guisarm from the PHB if you like the glaive, brace is really nasty but seldom used option.


Can Vital Strike be applied to an attack of opportunity?

Grand Lodge

KaptainKrunch wrote:
Can Vital Strike be applied to an attack of opportunity?

Vital Strike is a standard action, and cannot be combined with much of anything.


Vital strike can't be used with sneak attack, however, if you pick up Death or Glory from ultimate combat you can stack vital/improved vital/greater vital


Tim Reeves wrote:
Vital strike can't be used with sneak attack, however, if you pick up Death or Glory from ultimate combat you can stack vital/improved vital/greater vital

Nothing I see in the rules bars using Vital Strike and Sneak Attack together.

Sczarni

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Polearm Masters are quite fun indeed. You get all the fun of any fighter with a big stick dishing out incredible damage, plus you get to create your own Danger Zone. And with Enlarge Person, you effectively becoming a walking Fireball radius.

If you're worried about MAD, don't. You don't even need Imp. Trip. The guy you're tripping can't reach you to take his AoO anyway. When I played a Polearm Master, I took Imp. Bull Rush instead (on the grounds that anything that got inside my reach, I could shove them back out) and that worked out great because instead of needing to blow a feat on Combat Expertise, I took Power Attack instead and dished out obscene damage on my full attacks.

As for heavy armor slowing you down, the extra reach helps make it hurt less. But since Combat Reflexes wants high DEX anyway, you can always just wear lighter armor. Your flat-footed AC will suffer, but if you're tripping or bull rushing, then the enemies won't get to make full attacks against you anyway.


KaptainKrunch wrote:

For making that reach opportunist is the Polearm master fighter the best way to go? (especially if you're using trip?)

What weapon is best?

Besides combat expertise and improved trip what other feats are synergetic?

Every time I've been moved to use a pole-arm its always been with a Weaponmaster or a Lore Warden. I'm particularly proud of my Lore Warden - an extensive break-down of him can be found here. Among other things you get Combat Expertise as a free feat and using a reach weapon, combat reflexes, whirlwind attack and a 5' step pretty much makes you the god of the battlefield at 4th level and up.

One piece of advise - making tripping be a cool thing you can do, not the ability you build you rentire character around - not everything can be tripped after all.


Silent Saturn wrote:
If you're worried about MAD, don't. You don't even need Imp. Trip. The guy you're tripping can't reach you to take his AoO anyway. When I played a Polearm Master, I took Imp. Bull Rush instead (on the grounds that anything that got inside my reach, I could shove them back out) and that worked out great because instead of needing to blow a feat on Combat Expertise, I took Power Attack instead and dished out obscene damage on my full attacks.

Some good advice there. I may swap out my Fauchard-wilding Lore Warden's Improved Trip/Tripping Strike for Improved Bull Rush/Bull Rush Strike. It seems like it would be botn more useful and usable more often... I've had a problem with foes '5-foot stepping' through my threatened area when I'm doing the Whirlwind thing, this might be a nice way to help mitigate that. It would also be useful to force foes into flanked positions or into hazards (like pits or a Wall of Fire).

Sczarni

Mercurial wrote:
Silent Saturn wrote:
If you're worried about MAD, don't. You don't even need Imp. Trip. The guy you're tripping can't reach you to take his AoO anyway. When I played a Polearm Master, I took Imp. Bull Rush instead (on the grounds that anything that got inside my reach, I could shove them back out) and that worked out great because instead of needing to blow a feat on Combat Expertise, I took Power Attack instead and dished out obscene damage on my full attacks.
Some good advice there. I may swap out my Fauchard-wilding Lore Warden's Improved Trip/Tripping Strike for Improved Bull Rush/Bull Rush Strike. It seems like it would be botn more useful and usable more often... I've had a problem with foes '5-foot stepping' through my threatened area when I'm doing the Whirlwind thing, this might be a nice way to help mitigate that. It would also be useful to force foes into flanked positions or into hazards (like pits or a Wall of Fire).

There's also the point that, if you're using your AoO to trip people, AoO's never provoke AoO's. Which further calls into question why we want Imp. Trip.

If you plan on being the tank/protecting the casties, Bull Rushing is also good for shoving enemies away from your friends. ;)


Wouldn't you still want Imporved Trip as a gateway to Greater Trip to get the AoO on the trip and when they stand?


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Don't bother getting a trip weapon. If you can miss the CMD by more than 10 you probably shouldn't be trying anyway.

Try the glaive guisarm from the PHB if you like the glaive, brace is really nasty but seldom used option.

Just a heads up... you can't technically trip with a weapon without the Trip property. This is in the FAQ.

Sure, you can still trip, but it's presumed you are using some part of your body and so you don't get ANY benefits from the weapon you are wielding... which include things like Reach and enhancement bonuses (which DO add to your CMB).
EDIT: ALSO, you can't add other attack bonuses like weapon focus or weapon training to you trip attempt unless the weapon has the Trip property.

Just food for thought. The ruling has always seemed a bit odd to me, but it is what it is. *shrug*

I'll also put in another vote for the Fauchard.
I made a Polearm Master who used one before Ultimate Combat came out, and I re-skinned it as a Naginata (and let's be honest, they are the stats the Naginata should have had anyway).

It's the only reach weapon with 18-20 crit range, and the trip property (for the reasons mentioned) is AMAZING.
1d10 is no damage slouch either.

Sczarni

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ALRIGHT! Pole Arm Fighter. I have one and I must say it is a great class. I have gone with a build based on Combat Patrol. I am a human for that bonus feat which I spent to get Exotic Weapon proficiency Fauchard. A Fauchard is 1d10 crit of 18-20 x2, which recently I made keen so I threaten a crit 25% of the time.
I really feel the best way to play a polearm fighter is waiting for the enemy to come to you and really think of when its best to make your attacks. I chose combat patrol route because of the Steadfast Pike Class ability.

Ability Scores as of right now. 19/16/14/13/11/7
Feat: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard
Feat: Combat Reflexes
Feat: Combat Expertise (have a trait that reduces attack penalty by -1)
Feat: Power Attack
Feat: Dodge
Feat: Mobility
Feat: Combat Patrol
Feat: Weapon Focus: Fauchard
Level7 Improved Trip
Level8 Greater Trip
Level9 Tripping Strike

The last 3 levels I'm in a pickle because I cant decide which route to go either step up and strike, a Disruptive Build, or Pin down. But really its a great Class.


Also, if you are planning to go Fauchard, you could also possibly go with a Half-Elf for exotic weapon proficiency (instead of skill focus).

You would lose the +1 skill point a level, but gain some other nice bonuses. That's what I did.


Ravennus wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Don't bother getting a trip weapon. If you can miss the CMD by more than 10 you probably shouldn't be trying anyway.

Try the glaive guisarm from the PHB if you like the glaive, brace is really nasty but seldom used option.

Just a heads up... you can't technically trip with a weapon without the Trip property. This is in the FAQ.

Sure, you can still trip, but it's presumed you are using some part of your body and so you don't get ANY benefits from the weapon you are wielding... which include things like Reach and enhancement bonuses (which DO add to your CMB).
EDIT: ALSO, you can't add other attack bonuses like weapon focus or weapon training to you trip attempt unless the weapon has the Trip property.

No way!

I can't access the faqs from here (damn proxies...) but I'm sure that every guide out there mentions how you don't need a trip weapon to trip and how your bonuses do apply to the CMB check.

Shadow Lodge

polearm masters are much weaker then lorewarden. not to mention that the Sweeping Fend ability is worthless

"Sweeping Fend (Ex)
At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or pole arm to make a bull rush or trip maneuver, though he takes a –4 penalty to his CMB when making such attempts. Weapons with the trip property do not incur this penalty on trip maneuvers. "

so you mean i get to trip people with my polearm at a -4 when i was already able to do that without a penalty.
also you can already make bull rushes using a reach weapon so... yeah this is one of the major editor failures paizo has made a name for its self with.

so all in all lorewarden is just better at what it tries to do.

Crysknife wrote:


No way!
I can't access the faqs from here (damn proxies...) but I'm sure that every guide out there mentions how you don't need a trip weapon to trip and how your bonuses do apply to the CMB check.

yeah crysknife, you are correct. the trip ability only allows you to drop the weapon, if you fail by ten or more, to avoid falling prone yourself. you can trip with a spiked gauntlet if you choose to.

Sczarni

DrowVampyre wrote:
Wouldn't you still want Imporved Trip as a gateway to Greater Trip to get the AoO on the trip and when they stand?

If that and a total of +4 to trip is worth three feats to you, then by all means. But Combat Exp almost never gets used and Imp. Trip's extra ability is less useful than it looks. That and the fact that monsters can be immune to tripping just by their number of legs means I'd rather not.


Crysknife wrote:
Ravennus wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Don't bother getting a trip weapon. If you can miss the CMD by more than 10 you probably shouldn't be trying anyway.

Try the glaive guisarm from the PHB if you like the glaive, brace is really nasty but seldom used option.

Just a heads up... you can't technically trip with a weapon without the Trip property. This is in the FAQ.

Sure, you can still trip, but it's presumed you are using some part of your body and so you don't get ANY benefits from the weapon you are wielding... which include things like Reach and enhancement bonuses (which DO add to your CMB).
EDIT: ALSO, you can't add other attack bonuses like weapon focus or weapon training to you trip attempt unless the weapon has the Trip property.

No way!

I can't access the faqs from here (damn proxies...) but I'm sure that every guide out there mentions how you don't need a trip weapon to trip and how your bonuses do apply to the CMB check.

Hmmm... I stand corrected.

I WAS right... until 03/15/2011... when SKR updated the FAQ and they apparently did a 180 on the decision.

So, yeah, obviously I hadn't re-read that FAQ entry since they made the change. Silly me.

BUT YAY!! I'm glad that went back on that decision, as I thought the old one was kind of harsh.

Sczarni

The only bonus you get with a trip weapon is the ability to drop the weapon if you fail by 10 or more. People here have said so far that If you fail by 10 or more you probably shouldn't be trying. Just remember you can always roll a 1 and landing on your butt after a failed attempt really puts a polearm master in a bad place considering you are a mobile fighter and not a tank.


@Coraith - love that build, going to do it myself. What armour did you give him?


ya sorry i got nothing to add at this point, but I want to keep this idea for later, so despite my hatred of the word...
BUMP

Shadow Lodge

You know, you could just make a note of the thread title and search for it later on. The archives are pretty large, you know?

Lore Warden is pretty awesome. GMs will rage at the maneuver prowess though and you might obsolete the rest of the melee folks in your party(unless they have a very specific schtick), so keep that mind. Personally, I really like the Dragoon archetype for its extra special spear training and banner abilities. Starts out weaker, but becomes awesome and combines well with a cavalier. Horse Master anyone? It's a complete different beast though if you start mixing in mounted combat.

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