Dancing Hut

Cfoot's page

**** Pathfinder Society GM. 132 posts (310 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. No wishlists. 41 Organized Play characters. 10 aliases.

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I signed up for two playtest scenarios (one at 1st level and one at 5th), so I had to make some PCs.

My first one, a 1st level Human Cleric of Gorum, took forever. I had to gut through four different sittings in order to finish and make sure I had everything correct.

1) You have to fix the layout. Put Domain powers in the cleric section. Put the Deities section containing the Anathemas in the cleric section.

2) Clerics of Gorum might be unplayable in PFS because part of their anathema is “prevent conflicts through negotiation”.

3) When I finished, I felt a little tingle of what I dare say is excitement to try this guy out. (But the setting feels much more “low magic” than before.)

Second guy, a 5th level Human Cavalier, took much less time. I feel like I’m starting to get the hang of it.

1) Was going to make him a half-orc, but too prohibitive. I thinks its dumb half-orcs don’t get Darkvision until 5. Makes no sense RP-wise. Make Darkvision one of the half-orc choices at 1.

2) Put the animal companion section and archetype section right after the classes, so you don’t have to flip back and forth.

3) Too many things with the “feat” name. I prefer “talents”, “discoveries”, “powers”, etc. (I listened to the podcast about why you went with feat but it jumbles things.)

4) I’m even more excited with this PC. I want to try mounted combat (but Animal Companions are very underpowered).

I will give another update after I play, but my big take away:

→ Keep trying and make that first character, it will start to come together and you might actually get excited to play it. Get your mind right for a low powered, low magic game and I think your inner gamer will want to rise to the challenge. I’m shocked that I’m looking forward to playing. I'm no Paizo shill, so if my experience sucks I will say so, but I'm starting to see some possibility here.

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I’d like to push back at the notion that the 3.5 model or chassis was no longer viable financially or mechanically.

I would say the biggest problem from PS1 was the bloat and power creep. The introduction of a new version would fix that automatically by wiping the slate clean from all the splat that had accumulated. (The same way PS1 did with 3.5).

Then in my PS2=3.8 version of Pathfinder you build upon the innovations and successes you have had over the last 10 years while also correcting and clarifying some problem areas.

1) You have 20 Core classes instead of 11 or 12 including Alchemist, Inquisitor, and Oracle. (I could give you the rest of my list but I think these are widely accepted as great designs.) These classes are real improvements to 3.5 that have forever improved the game.
2) The Hunter spontaneous casting of Druid spells. I wouldn’t have the Hunter class in my 20, but I would have Nature Oracles cast spontaneously from the Druid spell list.
3) The Bloodrager Caster Level paradigm for classes that don’t get spells at 1st level (if I had any within the new edition). CL should equal level of the casting class.
4) Each character begins with a Teamwork feat and gains a new one at 7th. (I feel like they never got to cultivate the full potential of Teamwork feats.) And each character gets Skill focus in one skill at 3rd and 9th level.
5) All spells continue to scale when possible. All spells work off of the casting stat of the spell caster. (Oracles use charisma for Spiritual Weapon etc.)
6) No more dipping Paladin for Divine Grace. Change the wording to be something like the Duelist Canny Defense ability. (You may add 1 point of your Charisma bonus per Paladin level to your saves. Or 1 point per 2 levels.)
7) No more 6 arrows in 6 seconds. Manyshot is a standard to shoot 2 arrows at 2 separate targets and is available at 1st level. (This is more thematic anyway. The only reason to put 2 arrows on at one time is to split them.) Rapid shot doesn’t stack with Haste. But I would add more trick shot feats for archery to counterbalance the power loss. (And arrows overcome DR the way they used to, arrow from a +5 Bow overcomes alignment DR.)
8) No stacking bonuses. You get the highest one available (except for Bards whose Inspire Courage stacks with the highest bonus available.)
9) Spirited Charge isn’t available till 9th level and Lances deal double damage on a Spirited Charge like everything else. Horse Animal Companion/Mounts hooves are no longer secondary attacks, so that your Mount is at least on par with the abilities of the Heavy Horse you can buy.
10) Spears can be used one-handed.
11) Etc.

These aren’t supposed to be great ideas, they are meant to show that you could continue to build on the successes of the 3.5 model and improve the game through common sense corrections and clarifications. I think people would buy that kind of PF.

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Charlaquin wrote:
There is absolutely a strength rogue option. The very first Class Feat on the rogue list, Bludgeoner, lets you use Sneak Attack with one-handed clubs and maces without the finesse trait. Amd you Slow the target when you crit with such a weapon, which is pretty rad too.

Thank you for pointing that out, however, allowing you to use a one-handed club is hardly the makings of a strength rogue.

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I understand why Paizo is going this direction, its just not what I (personally) hoped for. I disagree that PF1 took 3.5 as far as it could go.

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That's probably a bit dramatic, but it is a clickbait world. :)

More dice rolling on damage, less static damage
Backgrounds feel better roleplay-wise than PS1 traits to me

No Strength Rogue option (too cookie cutter)
No advantage to mounted combat (probably a disadvantage in the long run)
Ancestry Feats feel like a feat tax to get back what I used to get for free
I'm suspicious of how combat maneuvers will actually work (I think they will be more die dependent therefore less reliable therefore used less)

I 'm biased because I loved 3.5 and when PF1 came out I was like, "Wow this is 3.5 on steroids!". I was hooked immediately. PS1 was said to be like 3.75. I was hoping PF2 would be like 3.8. I'm really trying to not be a hater, but this really doesn't feel like the same game to me. I'm still going to participate in the playtest, in order to give it a fair shake, but my confidence and expectations are low right now.

Liberty's Edge

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M Human Lvl 11.2 (Alchemist (Grenadier) 8/ Master Chymist 3)

Thanks GM kuey. This was my third PbP and I did not have a good experience the other two times. I swore I wouldn't do it again, but I wanted to play this scenario. I am glad I did. You did a good job. Thanks for your time and effort.

Thanks everyone. Good table. I had fun. I enjoyed playing with you all. I enjoyed your characters. Very flavorful.

Liberty's Edge

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M Human Lvl 11.2 (Alchemist (Grenadier) 8/ Master Chymist 3)

Bishop you rolled a d1 not a d100 on your miss chance

Liberty's Edge

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M Human Lvl 11.2 (Alchemist (Grenadier) 8/ Master Chymist 3)

Lox thinks to himself, "The other guys get barmaids in their tub and mine attacks me!".

He screams out, "Help! I'm under attack!

He will grab his Feral mutagen from his gear and drink it.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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andreww wrote:

Four new Venture Captains have been created this day within the Core Pathfinder Society Lodge:

Venture Captain Grave Gallonica, Oread Druid
Venture Captain Dindreann, Human Wizard and one time Cleric of Callistria
Venture Capatian Thingrim Dinn, Dwarf Cleric of Desna

and, horrifyingly,

Venture Captain Rofflestomper, Absaloms least hygienic Gnome Barbarian whose beard has been home to some of the most disgusting items ever known.

Rofflestomper pelvic thrusts in celebration through the Grand Lodge at the news of his promotion. His gaze catches another Gnome who has a sick and twisted visage. Rofflestomper flashes his horrific glare followed by a bloodcurdling howl to dispose of this other first-worlder of lesser importance. However, the effect is reversed and the newest Core VC runs panicked from the lodge.

Gnome Barbarian VC 0, Skyreach Mirror 1


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Strong Core presence online. Pathfinder Online Collective. (I have two level 11s, a 9, 8, 5, 3, two 2 all from Online Core Play.)


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I was playing a scenario in which Major Colson Maldris appears and a new player said, "Who's that?" and the answer was, "He's the faction head for Liberty's Edge and the most famous Eagle Knight". That got me thinking. I have a 19th level Eagle Knight, I bet he is pretty famous. So for fun, who is the most famous member of each faction (as determined by Fame.) Here is what I got, you can cut, paste, then copy over the entry until we see who is the most famous Pathfinder in Golorian. (If this has been done before, sorry, just remember that creativity is forgetting where you read something.)

Liberty's Edge: Eagle Knight Captain Ra Loi, (19th lvl) Fame: 88
Silver Crusade: Ojan, The War Witch of Irrisen (13th lvl) Fame: 64
Sovereign Court: Stanis, The Baron of Beatdown, (14th lvl) Fame: 63
Grand Lodge: Woodros Scufflegrit, (12th lvl) Fame: 59
Scarab Sages: None worth listing
The Exchange: None worth listing
Dark Archives: None worth listing

(Didn't go historical with old factions, probably just keep it as of now. As you know fame is fleeting.)

Sovereign Court 4/5

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I have really enjoyed Core since it came out. The best thing being I could play more since I didn't have that many scenarios open in PFS. (I also like that chronicles matter more and seemingly the counter-intuitive result of better character development with less mechanical options. My opinion, but I digress.)

When I started PFC at level 1, I didn't see that big a difference from PFS. I played PFC exclusively till level 5, not out of protest or boycott, those were just the only games I could get into. Then I had a chance to go back and play a PFS scenario and man was I in culture shock or rather campaign shock.

My tier 4-5 table consisted of an occult class switch hitter (who did more melee damage than the barbarian and more range damage than the archer ranger), a warpriest, witch, barbarian, and ranger. I was playing my Sohei monk (so I have no room to call anyone out for cheese). But my shock wasn't necessarily about cheese, it just felt like a totally different game. (It was like watching Transformers 3 after watching Star Wars.) It was really surprising. Anybody else had that feeling or can pinpoint the distinction more articulately?

I am still going to play PFS when I can, but I walked away thinking, man I really like Core. (Not to go negative, but I also don't think I like the occult classes very much and I'm on the fence about ACG classes (though I have some). I may have officially become an old man and reached my limit on expansion.)

Sovereign Court 4/5

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I came into PFS at the introduction of the APG, which I think is the best PF book ever. I love all its classes save one (summoner).

I am excited about CORE but for me I wish the campaign included core, APG, and ISWG. If I could have those three I'd be in hog heaven.

Regarding ACG, I have a very powerful Hunter (the synergy of teamwork feats can be devastating. Also, something that doesn't get mentioned a lot, is with its animal focus ability you don't have to buy belts of Str/Dex/Con which frees up lots of cash for other purchases which makes you more powerful.) I also have a mid-level Combat Investigator that I am really excited about.

But with all that said, it is a bit much and some things just don't feel like they were thought out. This book probably could have benefited with 6 more months of work.

Sovereign Court 4/5

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It's always harder to be good! ;)


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Is that gorilla proficient with hammers?


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Lord Stanis has now achieved level 13. He came out of retirement to go straight to the bottom of the Emerald Spire and perform such daring acts as Delaying heroically, Withdrawing with courage, and failing saves with honor. In the end he walked out victorious. You're welcome world.

Scarab Sages 4/5

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pauljathome wrote:

If I was allowed, I'd side with the Trogs if your reckless experiments cause them to attack".

Hey Paul, anytime your high-minded characters want to side with the enemy, I'm in favor of it. We can always dig another grave. ;)

I'm just trolling you Paul. You are fun to play with and I enjoy your characters. Just be careful not to discount other perspectives. There are several reason to be suspicious of the trogs to the level that a flash point could set things off.

1) everything else in the spire to that point we've had to fight
2) we were given a mission to track down missing pathfinders, whose very expensive gear was sticking to the magnet. (No pathfinder I know parts with magic stuff unless their life is threatened.)
3) trogs typically are CE
4) over-friendly nature of the trogs put us at the center of their dungeon surrounded by superior numbers.


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So I was GMing the midnight slot at a con and it was a laid back session. But when the BBEG appeared she started wreaking havoc and on a full attack crit, crit, hit the party's wounded pally. It was evident he wasn't going to make it. Because of the tone of the night, I was going to be (rightly or wrongly) merciful. I asked him what his con was, so that I could put him one point away from death. But he looked me in the eye without arrogance or bravado and said, "Bring it all, boss."

Ways to impress your GM: Die with honor. No crying or bellyaching. Hold your head up high like a true adventurer.

This guy, who I don't even know his name, changed the way that I play and deal with character death. When one of my PCs die, I remember this and imitate.


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Don't you mean not-a-VC?

Congrats. (Old School Champ)


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When I first played PFS a nice lady (who turned out to be a ruthless and bloodthirsty VC) told me that in PFS I could take my PCs anywhere in the world and play them. At the time I thought that would never apply to me, but this year I've traveled quite a bit for my work and I brought my PCs with me. I have to tell you that I've had a great time and have encountered many hospitable lodges. I wanted to post to 1) thank those lodges 2) let those traveling through these areas know these places will welcome roaming pathfinders and 3) I think I've had a pretty good run of playing in places on business trips, so I wanted to make it about me:) and see if anyone could top my PFS passport.

Since Jan 2013 I've played PFS in these areas on business trips in a non-Con setting:

Atlanta, GA
Anderson, SC
Tempe, AZ
Houston, TX
Glen Allen, VA

If you want to count Cons add:

Chattanooga, TN
Mobile, AL

More to come, post your own PFS passport if you like, or give some love to a lodge for its hospitality.


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All his power comes from the ponytail. I've never seen him GM one awesome game without it. With the ponytail, he's unstoppable.

Congratulations John, you deserve it.

Liberty's Edge

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Major Maldris, permission to take my unit of grenadiers into Cheliax and misbehave. We will have Egorian blue with our banner and red with tyrant blood. Sir, yes sir.


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I have read a lot lately about people’s bad experiences and what they hate about PFS in other threads. I’ve wanted to chime in but couldn’t find the right moment, so I’ll just put it in my own little love letter to PFS here.

First, let me say that I appreciate PFS leadership’s willingness to listen to those who have had bad experiences in order to improve play and this is in no way meant to discredit the experiences of those who have not enjoyed themselves, but let me share a different perspective.

I moved and had to leave a good home gaming group. They were all childhood buddies and my adult circles didn’t have any gamers in them. I didn’t get to play for three years until I discovered PFS. Now even though I didn’t know anybody, I still had an opportunity to resume the game that I love. PFS was an open door and without it I probably never would have played again.

PFS is not a home game. With it you sacrifice depth, but you gain breadth. In 4/5 hr slots, you won’t go as deep into role playing as a home game, but you will be exposed to a wider array of builds, combos, tactics, styles, and people. My home game was great, but we all kind of had our style and after years together, we knew what each other were going to do. I play with a different party each time I sit down in PFS and that’s a good thing. My PCs are specialized, but they have to be versatile in PFS. That is helping me as a gamer create characters that are better overall and less one-trick ponies.

Also about the time constraints, I’m an old man now. I have a lot I have to do and getting 8-12 hr blocks to play games is hard to swing sometimes. Now I do get to play a lot of all day games, but with the 4/5 hr slot format, I don’t have to. If I can’t play all day, I can still get some quality play in during one slot. If I go out of town for two months, I don’t wreck the campaign. When I come back its still here and I can pick up where I left off without holding anybody else back.

About the strictness of the rules that garners a lot of gripes. It is true your home GM will let you do this or that which is not allowed in PFS. But be honest there are still things he won’t let you do. My home GM was awesome and there were still things that were legal RAW that he didn’t like and so it was out. Whatever your group or whoever your GM is there will be limitations and boundaries in order to keep the game from going haywire. That’s life and that’s gaming. Whether its Mike Brock or Mike your friendly neighborhood GM, you will face limitations on your super cool combo that can end the world, so deal with it. Adapt and become a better gamer.

Lastly, you know what you are going to get with PFS and that is comforting to me. My home group once spent 6 hrs bartering in town for gear and information. As our night drew to a close, I asked, “Are we ever going to fight something?” My buds looked at me like I was a heretic. In PFS, I know there will be opportunities to solve problems diplomatically. There will be spots for good role playing if we will seize them. But I know for sure we are going to roll some dice at some point and I can test my brainchild’s ability to fight bad monsters with a greatsword. I have a serious and stressful job and there are not many opportunities to solve problems with a greatsword. But in PFS there is and I like that.

I am from the South, so let me close with a folksy analogy. I love the Waffle House, but I don’t order salad there. If I want a salad, I go somewhere else. But I eat at the WH because it has tons of things that are awesome. Not everything about PFS is awesome, but a lot of things are, so adjust your expectations accordingly, be realistic, be fair, and have fun.

Forgive the wall of text. This has been stored up for like 3 or 4 threads now.

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Furious Finish
You channel all of your rage into one massive blow to crush your enemy.

Prerequisite: Rage class feature, Vital Strike, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: While raging, when you use the Vital Strike feat, you can choose not to roll your damage dice and instead deal damage equal to the maximum roll possible on those damage dice. If you do, your rage immediately ends, and you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be).

1) Does this max out the damage roll for all dice (Vital strike dice and normal damage dice) or just the vital strike dice and you roll the normal damage dice?

2) Does this apply to Improved Vital Strike as well, or just Vital Strike?

Thanks in advance.