Azothath's page

***** Pathfinder Society GM. 3,338 posts (3,842 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 50 Organized Play characters. 8 aliases.

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For gladiators RAW has +1 performance on weapons. I'm not sure that it is all that practical but if you're going thematic, there ya go.

I'll also point you towards K. Kurtz's Deryni{Fantasy similar to your theme}.

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there are many issues from your account. Besides the trip on de Nile there are unresolved personal & social issues that don't help in leading a game.

after 4 edits I'll say; so, you reach the denouement of Masque of the Red Death{review plot & analysis} (maybe, & other tales) in the FIRST Game... LOL, such a waste. Says it all.

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don't forget;
W1) Spell Recall items are twice the price for spontaneous casters. Wealth by Level(WBL).
W2) Bonded Object means one high price item is gained at half cost (such as Amulet of Spell Mastery).(WBL)
W3) Wizard's do not need Use Magic Device as most items are on their spell list. CHA does not feed into skill points per level. (Skill)
W4) should a wizard take up crafting he gains a WBL advantage. (WBL)
W5) a wizards learned spell list is usually quite large and with an open slot he can cast a needed spell in 15min (usually an out of combat situation). There are feats to shorten the memorization time. (Casting)
W6) Wizard do have to pay to learn spells but copies are at half price. (-WBL). Stealing spellbooks is a rare event in the game and PCs tend to cry "unfair".

all the above is in the specialist wizard class, no need for archetypes or prestige classes, extra feats to make the build work, and interaction problems.

IMO this is well known and really just stirs up cries of Game Balance issues.

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the simple answer (to the title) is No.

it is hard to beat what the Wizard(specialist) class does for its built in costs (which are high). The generalist Wizard class is just behind.

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lol... sounds like it's a game to die for

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as a physicist/engineer I've thought about this over the years and editions. I think I've made my viewpoint clear in my posting history as well as my approach to the game. The game is more about having fun, learning some social skills, roleplaying out some situations, and wasting time in a fun/creative/dramatic setting. It does not confer knowledge about Reality or the real world in a technical sense (in fact it is quite misleading).

It's folly to try to make the rules in the game Real. It's a game written by creative people to be engaging, fun, and entertaining. It is a Work of Art.
One could say the general summation of reality is what you get in the game but consider that the game is far rougher that Newtonian physics which we know is wrong in the details. We know that the game fails when it comes to simple things like falling damage, scaling damage with spell level, equating damage to creatures versus objects, scaling ability scores, etc...
The game is more an artful descriptive model using simple rules of a common experience as to what very roughly happens in a game world. So Reality feeds into the Game, not vice versa.
PF2 & D&D5 stepped away from the AD&D to 3.5 design theme to model a game play experience rather than a common descriptive experience.

Why do people want to make it (more) Real? I think that is a common human ego issue. Who wouldn't want to make some aspects of fantasy world real and bring that fun, success, and understanding into Reality.
Truthfully whatever ideas and thoughts you have do not affect Reality. I like to say, "Reality is Perfect exactly as it is, it can't be any other way. It's your idea of perfection that's the problem."

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[PFS legal]Enlarge Person T1, short description "Humanoid creature doubles in size."

[PFS legal]Long Arm T1, short description "Your arms lengthen, giving you extra reach."

I don't see why it wouldn't work together, in any casting order.
Still it takes two rounds to buff with Enlarge Person taking a full round AND Long Arm being Personal spell...

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you can check the rules yourself:
1) check AoN -> {PFS} Mammoth Rider Prestige class.
2) then check the product page for eratta...
3) then check FAQs for product
4) lastly OrgPlay updates (also helpful for home GMs).

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wraithstrike wrote:

Disclaimer: This might belong in general discussion.

I've noticed over the years that many of the disagreements about the rules come down to whether those debating see the rules as "What the devs intended" vs "These words are used and intent doesn't matter".

When I first got here most people were going by intent, but that was over 10 years ago.

However if I'm helping someone in the forums and they don't specify I'd like to know what PoV I should use.

I don't think that duality is true, nor does it characterize why people support their interpretation of the rules. It IS a common support rationale in an Appeal to Authority. I believe people have come to an understanding of the rules in their mind and support that interpretation. How they support that opinion and what science or expertise they bring with it varies.

Personally I have my RAW view for this Rules forum and my Home Game view for my home games and practical usage. Sometimes knowing old D&D rules trips me up.

Personally RAI is moot. The text has been edited multiple times over 20 odd years (DnD3&3.5, PF1) and now we have what we have as RAW.

As a writer you can take various points of view or tones with a posting. I believe most posters use their common conversational style.
I would advise posters to link to AoN quotes and try to support their position using RAW, logic, current usage at the game table (common practice can vary from RAW) and to keep it reasonable. Some posters delight in argument for its own sake. Some posters have a very rigid view of the rules. Some posters believe in keeping their players happy & amused is the goal of the game. Opinions vary.

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while they are game concepts, (Bludgeoning AND Aerodynamic) and (Piercing AND Bludgeoning {weapon damage types}) are somewhat contrary in physical nature so you see these combinations in two headed weapons (which also means separate enchantments). I'd make sure to get GM approval and participation in your weapon project as the rules are for GMs and he should set you a craft DC and price as a goal for the standard crafting process. You should make a crafting roll at the onset to test the feasibility of the project.

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this has wandered quite a bit

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wandering commentary
amusingly pulling a flask from a bandolier 0.5gp provokes and isn't any faster than a backpack 2gp in RAW (is it snapped? open? does avoid the "is it buried" question). RAW is rough and it takes a Home GM to fix that IF desired. Again, Handy Haversack or Spring-loaded Wrist Sheaths within RAW. So most of this involves low level game play (Fifth or less level). Don't buy the Adv. Sash, MW backpack. The Weaponrack Backpack mayyybe. Weapon cords got nerfed and are now more bother than they are worth. A heavy war horse with gear and saddlebags will improve your low level PC more than anything.

I've made multiple suggestions and several threads over the years to improve PC survival.

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within RAW there is an expected progression toward magical stowage.
The Handy Haversack has long been a favorite since its debut mainly for simplifying getting an item out and not provoking an AoO.
Raw focuses on game mechanics and some common circumstances and does not explain how things work in a realistic or sensible manner, it's flavor text.
I've always used a libreoffice/word document with a long table (sorting!) noting the location for my PC's inventory. It makes it very easy. page 1 accessible stuff, pg 2 wands, potions, scrolls, pg 3-5 other stuff, pg 6 expended stuff.

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VoodistMonk wrote:

Stop playing and move on? No way. Tara could be perfectly playable...

That statement was clearly for Org Play. In Org Play it takes a special certificate (GM cert from GenCon) to rebuild a character. A person might have 4-5-10 if they did it alot and it cost them $500+ for the con, hotel, and then the volunteer time EACH TIME. There are other options on that cert like playing a rare race so it is a mixed use thing and at this point most have been used.

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the more I know about my location the less I know about my current direction & speed...

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For Your Readers: Darkest Dungeon

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mentally controlled telekinetic socks

and they say there's not good magical footwear slot items...

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the best thing is to read the spell Prestidigitation.
You'll note that the effects are crude and artificial (think of applying makeup in a bumpy car ride). No bonus or roll for Disguise unless it's DC5...
A Disguise Kit and a few rounds would be more practical.

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for completeness
Repeating Hand Crossbow, $800 4lb. Prof:Exotic, med 1d4P dmg c 19+ *2. Reload as Repeating Hvy Crssbw below.
Repeating Light Crossbow, $250 6lb. Prof:Exotic, med 1d8P dmg c 19+ *2. Reload as Repeating Hvy Crssbw below.
Repeating Heavy Crossbow, $400 12lb. Prof:Exotic, med 1d10P dmg c 19+ *2. Reload free actn using 2 hnd. Reload 5 as full actn w AoO.
while Exotic proficiency (aaaagh) they do give 5 shots using two hands. Again, may be easier to use a spell or weapon upgrade (Shadow) after the first case.

Dwarven Light Pelletbow, $50 4lb. Prof:Exotic, med 1d4B dmg c 19+ *3. Load as lgt crossbow (Free Actn) w 2 hnds. Nice on the Action Economy at the price of Exotic & low dmg.
Dwarven Heavy Pelletbow, $75, 8lb. Prof:Exotic, med 1d6B dmg c 19+ *3. Load as lgt crossbow (Mov Actn) w 2 hnds.

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A simple process within RAW
1) Keep 2 loaded crossbows in your Handy Haversack,[none]$2000 where getting them out is easier.
2) Cast Unseen Servant:C1 earlier. Attack/Fire your light or heavy crossbow wt:8lbs and hand off(drop) it to your UnsnSvt to reload.
    on a side note Goblin w Str:6 and light crossbow.
3) There's also Reloading Hands:C2 but no cranking in the spell description.
4) (as above) Endless Ammo:(cost +2) and sadly, "This ability does not reduce the amount of time required to load or fire the weapon."
5) (as above) Shadowcraft:(cost $12500 base) and Shadowshooting:(cost +1) are interesting, but there's that pesky Will save. I'd suggest preloading with an actual bolt.

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It is classic to make a pile of bards or an all Harsk party.

I'm sure a wizard(diviner) with a flowing monk dip could do the whole thing. I'd just wonder where the fun in that would be.

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A list of some old 0 Level names for Spells
* Bee
* Belch
* Blink
* Blue Light
* Bugs
* Catfeet
* Change
* Chill
* Clean
* Color
* Cough
* Creak
* Curdle
* Cut
* Dampen
* Dirty
* Distract
* Dry
* Dust
* Dusty
* Exterminate
* Firefinger
* Flavor
* Footfall
* Freshen
* Gallop
* Gather
* Giggle
* Gnats
* Groan
* Hairy
* Hide
* Horn
* Knot
* Listen
* Moan
* Mouse
* Mute
* Nod
* Palm
* Polish
* Present
* Rattle
* Ravel
* Salt
* Scorch
* Scratch
* Shine
* Shorten Growth
* Smokepuff
* Snatch
* Sneeze
* Sour
* Spark
* Spice
* Spider
* Spill
* Sprout
* Sting
* Stitch
* Sweeten
* Tangle
* Tap
* Tarnish
* Thump
* Tie
* Tweak
* Twitch
* Unlock
* Untie
* Warm
* Whistle
* Wilt
* Wink
* Wrap
* Yawn

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OOOoooh! You should have seen the one that got away!

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Twilight Knife:evoc 2 in the Homebrew forum.

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this is a tweaking and better description of the spell Twilight Knife:K3. I think it's a reasonable spell that needs a little improvement and clarification.

Twilight Knife (TwlgtKnf) (replacement)
School: evoc[frc]; Domain: magic(arcane), trickery, void;
Level: arcanist 2, bloodrager 2, magus 2, uc-summoner 2, sorcerer 2, witch 2, wizard 2, occultist 2, psychic 2, spiritualist 2.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, F(knife, dagger, or kukri)
Range: Close(25 +5*↓[CstrLvl/2])ft
Effect: floating weapon(dagger) of force (see description)
Duration: CstrLvl r (Đ)
Save: none; SR: Yes
You create a transparent floating dagger-like object of dusk force which nebulously blurs and then focuses sharply as it attempts to flank and attack the same creature as you within range each round. If you choose not to attack a single creature, or you make an attack that affects multiple opponents, the knife makes no attack during that round (unlike Spiritual Weapon).
The twilight knife makes a full round melee attack attempting to flank using your CstrLvl as BAB and SAS(Spellcasting Ability Score) bonus as Strength or Dexterity(see Weapon Finesse) as +(CstrLvl +SAS) (1d4 P|S +SAS, crit 19+ *2)[force] dmg & ↓[CstrLvl/4]d6[force] precision dmg (like a rogue) with flank or against foes that are denied their dexterity bonus to AC. The dagger may attack multiple times using its BAB in the usual manner but may only gain precision damage on the first attack as it comes into focus. The twilight knife does not provide flanking although it can take advantage of it, cannot make an AoO or Combat Maneuvers, gains the effect of blur, counts as magic for purposes of DR, and can move within the caster’s range adjacent to its target after the caster attacks a single target (otherwise it stays in the last square it was in but does not impede movement). While a force effect it can gain P or S damage which is a spell option set during the casting. If the caster attacks an illusion, phantasm, or phantom then the twilight knife also attempts to attack that target.
As a full round action the caster may transfer a touch spell with a standard action or less casting time and a single effect (such as Shocking Grasp but not Chill Touch) onto the twilight knife which it will attempt to discharge at the first opportunity, the transferred spell is a held touch spell.
A twilight knife cannot be harmed by physical attacks, but burning hands(spells doing energy damage that could affect (worn) objects), (greater) dispel magic, disintegrate, (minor) globe of invulnerability, obscuring mist(provides concealment), shield(provides AC), a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A twilight knife’s AC against touch attacks is 12 (10 + size bonus for Tiny object) plus your Dexterity modifier, blur grants it a 20% miss chance from concealment.

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they're were ever the GM wants...

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Kurald Galain wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:
Does an advanced gelatinous cube become a gelatinous octahedron? :)

IDK, if it eats your wizard/ rules lawyer you get a tetrahedron as that's taking sides... with a mythos bard it'd gain a face or two and become mis-katonic(non platonic)...

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as a Rules forum I'm going to suggest we don't try to fix it here.

It's a good topic for the Homebrew forum.

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I think many GMs would have an issue with a zero level spell bringing down a third level spell without some major gp cost.

Personally it should just cause a noticeable mishap (hint) if there's a trap within 15ft.

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you should post your question in the third-party advice & rules forum. Otherwise we can only offer our best guesses.

Did you tell your GM the source so he could review the spell and source material? It is not nice if you just tell him this is a legal PF spell as it hasn't been reviewed by Paizo which would be the common assumption.

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=== Twilight Knife and iterative attacks ===

It isn't specifically mentioned in the spell so I believe it will fall under the GM's purview. Likely to go one of two ways; 1)no, 2)yes by Caster's BAB. I think you'd be very lucky to have a GM say it has no limit.

#1) supporting argument is "isn't in the spell description". That's a very close to RAW ruling.
#2) uses Spiritual Weapon as a close analog. Iterative attacks for a spell effect that is a weapon operating off of BAB. It is more generous than #1 but seems reasonable given spell comparisons. It's a shame Twilight Knife didn't reference Spiritual Weapon.

=== Twilight Knife providing Flanking ===

I also don't see the Twilight Blade providing flanking. It doesn't threaten, take AoOs, or have a defined position. Both #1 & #2 above deny it granting flanking to allies.

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Melkiador wrote:
Azothath wrote:
Combine that with the fact that the Wizard must be either engaged in melee combat(OMG!) or ranged attack w/o flanking(as you personally don't threaten the target).


One place the spell might shine is against incorporeal enemies.

I used the term loosely but it was noted in the post with the two comparisons that Twilight Knife could attack. I can only assume you replied before reading the entire post.

The flanking bonus of +2 isn't consequential but the damage helps, still, the spell falls behind the two comparisons and grandly so with the highly likely event of the combat lasting shorter than the CastrLvl or the caster having to do actions other than attack a single foe or a foe with a good AC for the CR.

I did note some classes that might find the spell of use.

I think your assessment is statistically incorrect and overly optimistic and in essence looking for a niche case where it is practical.

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As time has gone on and with more material published since the APG and thus more choices, Twilight Knife:K[force]3 has sunk in usefulness. Combine that with the fact that the Wizard must be either engaged in melee combat(OMG!) or ranged attack w/o flanking(as you personally don't threaten the target).
Compared to {attack spells} Battering Blast:K[force]3, Call of the Void:K3, Diamond Spray:K, Fireball:K3, Force Punch:K[force]3, Lightning Bolt:K3, then Aqua Orb:C3, Pellet Blast:C3, Stinking Cloud:C3, Ray of Exhaustion:N3, Slow:T3.

+> BBlast: Rng:Close, Tgt:1 crtr, Sv:Rflx prtl, Efct:Rngd Tch Atk for [CstrLvl/5, min 1]*[(CstrLvl/2), 5 max]d6[force] & Bull rush CM CstrLvl+SAS(Spellcasting Ability Score), add +10 each extra AND you take the best Atk roll, Rflx or fall prone.
CstrLvl=10: 2 RngdTch@5d6 +best of 2 BullRush CM=20+SAS, falling prone is just gravy. TKnife can Atk.

+> FPunch: Rng:Tch, Tgt:crtr Tch'd, Sv:Fort prtl, Efct:[(CstrLvl, max 10)]d4[force] & push{Bull Rushed}(Fort Save) 5*[CstrLvl/2]ft.
CstrLvl=10: Tch@10d4 +(failed Fort)push 25ft. Likely req's Long Arm or Spectral Hand. TKnife can Atk.

as both are touches they ignore armor which is better than ignoring Dex.

+> TKnife: Rng:Close, Tgt:sole crtr you attack(d20), Sv:none, Efct:dagger of force +CstrBAB+SAS (1d4), !Dex/Flank Precision +[CstrLvl/4]d6[force] dmg.
CstrLvl=10: (regular attack) then +5+(4 to 6) (1d4,c19+ *2)[force]dmg possible Precision +2d6[force] for up to 10 rounds. Clearly best if caster attacks one opponent per round (rather than casting an AoE spell, battlefield control, buff, heal on party member). At +9 to +11 this will miss most ACs EVEN if you do get +2 from flanking. With the infrequent hit AND having to attack every round this is generally not a good option. An extra BBlast is more likely to hit and does more damage.

It's a nice infrequent extra damage source for a persistently one-on-one attacking caster (thus not on the Magus list) like a bloodrager, 'bad touch' caster w spectral hand, draconic sorcerer or eldritch scrapper. Most arcane casters don't consistently attack one-on-one, especially Evokers, and tend to go for BIG damage.

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going green with thread necromacy yeilds reintarnation.
Funny, doesn't look druish to me...

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That's easy - you just need two items (so why get those very expensive permanent interplanetary teleport rings);
Ring Gates, none, $40000. Get one where you are and one where you want to go... then (the Pour Man's method) a Large blender for guys wearing a ring of regeneration that don't fit through the rings... or a Portable Hole, none, $20000, to fit them in, roll it up, then pass through the ring (hopefully it unfurls on it's own at the other end), of course you could just use Gaseous Form....

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Derklord wrote:
... and I think creating a homebrew feat to target specific classes is bad form. Indeed, I don't think effecting the target based on its class is a concept that even exists in Pathfinder.

There are a plethora of spells that affect class features, some are exclusive to a single class. There are feats that follow this theme.

Disrupt Link:A2 {targets animal companion, familiar}
Arcane Disruption:E2 {arcane spell classes}
Paladin's Sacrafice:Pal2 {negatively affects a willing Paladin}
Devolution:T3 {eidolon}
Pup Shape:T3 {animal (companions)}
Call of the Void:K3 {verbal component}
Dispel Magic:A3&A6 {magic & users, counterspell}
Thanatotic Fury(giant):T4 {divine caster}
Mindwipe:E4 {spellcasters}
Heretic's Tongue:E5 {extra effect for divine casters}
Rebuke:Inquis4 {burst targeting your faith for extra damage}
Reprobation:T5 {targets faith}
Feeblemind:E5 {arcane spellcasters -4 to save, Int & Cha ->1, a well known classic}

feats w"divine spellcaster" 2//3 are bad news.
feats w"arcane spellcaster" 0//11 are bad news.

I'd agree that targeting a specific class, such as Summoner, would be overly specific but a class feature (Eidolon - of only 1 class) or arcane spellcasters seems fair game.

Personally I think turning PC's was done away with for 2 reasons; impeding a PC (bad PR), an ability doing more than one thing. With negative channels a caster hurts a number of foes a bit but it's generally not as effective as spells or combat.

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(okay - back from Evil mode)
I'd suggest using Command:E1 Flee option, or Grtr Command. It effectively does the same thing but consumes a standard action casting and has a Will save. Probably not going to work most of the time but Persistent metamagic and some DC boosting is possible. It's also well within RAW. Again, creative use of Bestow Curse can accomplish the same thing with a far longer duration.

As for an Evil Cleric turning a Paladin back in AD&D days he needed to be roughly 4 levels above the Paladin for a decent chance.
Paladin Lvl | Cleric Lvl=DC . . . . . |
- - ≤2 - - -| 4=19, 5=16, 6=13, 7=10, 8=7, 9-13=4, 14+=T(automatic) |
- - ≤4 - - -| 4=20, 5=19, 6=16, 7=13, 8=10, 9-13=7, 14+=T |
- - ≤6 - - -| 4= n, 5=20, 6=19, 7=16, 8=13, 9-13=10, 14+=4 |
- - ≤8 - - -| 4= n, 5= n, 6=20, 7=19, 8=16, 9-13=13, 14+=7 |

=== Homebrew link ===
IF you were to do this in PF1, I would make it a Channeling Feat or an Alt Domain power for a standard action channel as an enhanced Level Check with the spellcasting ability score(SAS) as a bonus (and any modifiers) and the paladin getting his Will save bonus (likely higher than the SAS bonus) for a forced withdraw lasting a few rounds with a kick based on the DC difference.
Thus 1d20 +Cleric Level +SAS +circumstance ≥ Paladin(or similar class) Level + Will save For (DC difference/5, minimum 1)d4r forced Withdraw(retreat away from ability user). Withdraw is not as severe as Flee.

If you wish to comment on the ability as crafted, please use the Homebrew link.

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Melkiador wrote:
Azothath wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
That kind of stuff might make the paladin really mad or possibly have a mental breakdown, but it wouldn't have anything to do with most oaths.

Baiting does rely on a creature's need to act and do something, inviting it to impose it's values on the world around it. Contemplation, reserve, and keen perception aren't really priorities for that trope. In specific circumstances that action can have consequences (such as attacking innocents). As a GM if you do Evil Things you also have to have a plan for the Redemption and Recovery.

It's not really on topic for this thread.

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Evil Ahead...:

I did tell you *NOT* to click the button... +1 to your Evil Alignment infractions...

straight up Repulsion:A6-7.
Though Desecrate:K2 and their ilk can discourage such do-gooders.
The most flexible and practical is Bestow Curse and such.
The trope of Paladin makes them highly susceptible to distraction and wanton acts of kindness and bragging about it later, along with paranoia about violating their oath. Thus a bugbear with a life-like baby doll is a Paladin magnet, two goblins with a baby doll on fire even more so... so with some simple illusions you can put the Paladin where you want. (A soulbound doll can prove invaluable in providing an opening and delivering a spell. Charming innocent children into dressing up as goblins playing rescue the doll with the soulbound doll almost always leads to an oath violation).
Next lower their save via various spells(w metamagics), hexes, bad luck, THEN hit them with your curse/actual spell.

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basically a cantrip or orison isn't going to produce anything useful as a focus or material component. The RAW price for NPC casting is 10gp*0.5*1 = 5gp. With the ubiquitous availability of Zero level spells I'd knock that down to 1gp.

The easiest way to get a likeness or token from someone is to offer a marriage proposal. Often pictures and personal tokens were exchanged by mail.

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an alternative is to Magic Jar a suitable host (or clone){employ a magic item for 1/d renew of the spell} then put your original body in stasis. This leave your 'soul' free to make decisions while freeing your body from the need to feed on blood. However, curses being what they are tend to follow the soul and at some point the current host may turn vampiric...
another method is a magic item that grants Possession.
Soulbound Doll or Mannequin using Tatiana as the source (or her mother)? Certainly he'll have gathered tokens(personal items) of the Tatianas over the years... voodoo dolls? Scrying to find her current soul (clearly an obsession).

as undead vampire Moroi don't age - it's really just a matter of having a source of negative energy to feed upon and for general renewal.

items of interest
Osirian Spirit Jar, none, $26250.
Thrum of the Hidden Soul, none, $32000.
Pallid Crystal, neck, $3300.
Collar of Unliving Servitude, neck, $14000. {vassal}
Urgathoa's Gluttony

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well, 2 easy ways;
sleep and go to the Dreamlands. Mythos Ghouls will prove helpful or esoteric paintings.
Once on the dreamlands see if you can get a ride there via cats, moon-beasts, Leng blackships, perhaps a certain special pirate vessel.

From the material plane you have similar options. Moon-beasts & Denizens of Leng and their black ships, cats(but they'd have to owe you a favor), try finding Randolph Carter.

High level devil on the moon... hmmm... sounds like you might want to consult an astronomer or someone with an orrey. If you have a name or token you can probably get a message sent {NPC Spellcasting is 10*SplLvl*CstrLvl}. Perhaps a local noble is an aficionado of green cheese or perhaps druids grappling with shapely demonic outsiders in a large vat filled with a wet clay slurry...

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the Kargatane was an old fan site.

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several kings controlled their lords through taxes, expensive social events, and protection rackets (the courts).
why not have balls at the castle? a few hushed up accidents can happen...

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Ravenloft... it was popular.

Really it is horror AND drama, so your players have to want that. Style then becomes important as 'ultimate success' can't happen. It's a big Ravenloft theme of the darklords doing terrible things in the name of success or getting what they want... and then not getting it. That tension is drama.
The players will fall into that cycle until they realize that they too are trapped in a cycle of prejudice, violence, and betrayal.
To make that work, you have to have PCs with flaws. You need to know them and their MOs, drives, and tailor plot events to that. It can take a heavy hand at times. Don't expect them to be concerned about Strahd or his issues. Mirror the dynamic in their lives, create parallels. Some NPCs have to suffer due to PC's successes.

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I want and like players to be creative. Banning reasonable spells (like Fly) should not be done without a very thematic reason (such as you are all morlocks living in tight caves, nobody has Fly).

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personally I strongly dislike the Rule of Cool.

Doing things within the rulez or nearly so (aka creatively with game balance) takes more effort and skill. So just objecting to the phrase or philosophy that it's a Good Thing... It's not.

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Collateral damage... just stuff the cleric has to heal up afterwards, LoL. Luckily it never seems to hit the caster (talk about Alchemist rolling a 1). In Org Play all the PCs affected must agree otherwise the caster must use a different spell, so a metagaming fix.
Honestly it's only a problem with One Trick Ponies as they only have a single elemental blast type that they've focused their feats and abilities on. It's best to buff your party front liners against your planned energy type to minimize the collateral damage. Dragon's Breath:K4 gives you a lot of energy type & AoE options when casting without resorting to metamagics. Classic Third level classic spells Stinking Cloud:C3, Summon Monster 3:C3, Heroism:E3, Suggestion:E3, Oneiric Horror I:3, Ray of Exhaustion:N3, Force Punch:K3, Haste:T3, Slow:T3 are pretty useful.

I find Reach Spell metamagic VERY USEFUL. Cure Light Wounds(arcane), Touch of Blindness, Ear-piercing Scream, Shocking Grasp, Touch of Idiocy, Frigid Touch...

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AwesomenessDog wrote:
Azothath wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
Note that you can't just use any old ink to write spells, you need magical ink that's pretty expensive (10gp per spell level squared).


this is how personal interpretation gets assumed as fact. It is not uncommon as people naturally fill in the process with their own details...

A spellbook is not magical thus the ink in spellbooks is not magical. Either can be through various enhancements or as named magic items but the baseline isn't.

The RAW cost for writing a spell into a caster's spellbook is a rule that applies to the process, not any individual component.
One presumes the value is there due to the information and access to the spell that the deciphered written description provides. The simple explanation is it is a class tax for variability/repertory improvement. The latter is enforced by the half cost of copying your spells.

If you wish to do that in your home game I think it's perfectly fine and many do. It's been a long standing discussion over the years as this was a change from DnD 3.5. Again, many people internalize their details and take that as RAW as the book is intended to be interpreted and the details fleshed out.

I'll note that in Org Play you sell for half what you paid, not the RAW value. This means you get nothing for the free spells you started with or got from levels. It was intended to be simple but actually makes the bookkeeping more difficult.

for me this is skewing off topic and initially I wasn't going to respond as the wider this ranges the more commentary it will gather due to the strong creative opinions that tend to entrench around generic RAW. I use my own flavor in my home game. Alas, this is a Rules thread.

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