there's no point in complaining about RAW class design in the Rules forum. It is what it is and the design criteria is obvious and historical. You want General or Homebrew forums. Yes, replying just extends its DOA status.
you have Paladin & Paladin archetypes. The archetypes allow some variance.
There are Prestige Classes with similar themes and the deific obediencies open up options and roles. new since 2014 starting with Inner Sea Gods
If you want more than that there is Homebrew and tinkering with Home Game versions of the old Dragon magazine #310 article(see earlier thread posting).
FYI
Make Whole:T3 & Grtr Make Whole:T4 CL must be 2*(CL of item). Greater make whole can fix destroyed magic items or technological items (items at 0 hit points or fewer), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level at least equal to that of the item. This spell otherwise functions as make whole. alas, it would just be a repaired magical object, not a construct or your Familiar.
Rapid Repair:T5 Fast healing has no effect on a construct that has been brought to 0 hit points or destroyed.
Repairing Constructs ... A construct that has been completely destroyed cannot be repaired, though ...
Wizard Clocksmith arch
and from Familiar Basics, If a familiar is dismissed, lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete.
and more specifically, Clockwork Familiar
Azothath's Builds: Mage-killer build = Monk-Flowing Monk 2 Wizard-Diviner 7
Magus Mortem LN aasimar emberkin(ntv outsdr) Lvl:Monk-Flowing Monk 2, Wizard(Diviner) 7
Magnus Mactator LN human Lvl:Monk-Flowing Monk 2, Wizard(Diviner) 7
... you'll have to take it to Monk-Flow 2 Wiz(Dvnr) 12.
Weapons: dagger, cestus, shortsword/gladius, temple sword, crossbows. You'll need Eschew Materials/False Focus/Diminishing Sash, Ring of Eloquence/spell/silent metamagic, and ghost touch weapon for when you're a shadow.
Otherwise a Grippli Warpriest or Inquisitor isn't bad.
I reread your original post and what drew you to Wizard arch Spell Sage.
First of all is Spell Study (Su) worth it? IMO No. Using 2 prepared spells and taking 1r+ casting time is not a gain. It's an emergency filler. There are several ways to cast/prepare off list spells at +1 SplLvl (aka using a Third to cast a Second level spell). The Focused Spell (Su) in nice but it is just 1-3 times per day but it costs you Any 1 spell castable once per day.
See Azothath's Builds: Wizard-Spell Sage @ 5th & 11th
Solona CN human Lvl: Wizard-Spell Sage 5 & 11
I'm going to suggest what I initially did but with more focus;
Review Azothath: Wizard multiclass with Cleric-Varisian Pilgrim 1 Thalevoh NN human Lvl:Cleric-Varisian Pilgrm(Chaldira NG Wpn:Shortsword/Gladius), Wizard(Diviner) 4 and then 10, then Rouillé Hasarderth NN aasimar Cleric-Varisian Pilgrim(Feronia Wpn:Bastardsword) 1 Wiz-Divnr 4.
You will have access to the wizard and cleric spell lists for item activation, cast as a wizard with an extra spell per spell level, cast first level cleric spells, and be able to cast any one wizard spell per day.
The aasimar has better ability scores but the human gets a free feat.
If you want to expand your spells take samsaran with mythic past life, INT will have to be 18 or 20 after adjustments to pilfer 5-6 witch spells, 1 first, 2 second, 1|2 third, 1 fourth.
Lastly, undine or grippli would work well in this campaign.
For traits you'll want Magical Knack(cleric) and either +1 Dex or Fort.
For feats, Point Blank and Precise shot feats are going to be needed. Weapon Finesse feat would be nice but you won't have the feats for it.
False Focus feat would be very handy giving your bonded object double duty as; 100gp holy symbol, Aegis of recovery at half cost, and $100gp focus replacing material components.
Cypher Script feat is also very handy as it cuts your wizard scribing cost in half.
Skill Ranks; acrobatics 3, craft alchemy 4-5, diplo 1+, linguistics 1, a suitable pirate profession skill 3-4, spellcraft 5, stealth 1+, swim 1+, the rest in knowledge skills where it is better to have 1 in every skill than all your points in 1 or 2 skills.
Equip: No mount. Items to consider besides the basics listed in the builds are a Ioun stone of Regeneration 1/hr at 3400gp, Spellguard Bracers 5000gp.
You'll be proficient in cestus, a decent weapon from your deity, and crossbows. Spears (jabbing or thrown) aren't bad.
6) Ayeque Droppith (Illiterate Gang) Brawler-Shield Champion 5
7) Whoz Dat (Forgotten saints Perish) Monk 2, Bloodrager(BL:Vestige) 3
8) Chief Advisor Incredulous Bulk Smoosh (Marvelous Sitdown Comics Clan) Sorcerer(BL:Arcane) 6, Bloatmage 5
RAW does not prevent you from learning a spell on your spell list that you cannot currently cast. It is just a spellcraft check and if you fail you can try again next level for free... so no downside other than cash spent early (Overhead). Always keep your Spellcraft skill at max ranks until 7th level or so.
Scroll cost = 25*SplLvl*CstrLvl >> NPC Access + Scribe cost = 15*SplLvl^2.
PF1 is a DnD3.0/3.5 spinoff that's easier and simpler. Most spells got nerfed, particularly polymorphs. Wiz bonded object(amulet) is great and beats a familiar past 5th level. BOTH of the above topics were also true in 3.5 so I'm left wondering...
If you want to go arcane caster with moderate system mastery it is best to play a specialist wizard (diviner, evoker-admix). They have enough power, spells, skills(thanks to a high Int) to dip a level in another class to cover some area and still be more than powerful enough. If you don't know the arcane spell lists or have low system mastery just stick to a single class. If you have good system mastery you have more flexibility as you know how to work the spell lists and can dip 2 levels or do an arcanist or sorcerer archetype.
I did a helpful post awhile back How to play a Wizard, 10-2024
The Campaign(GM setting) is going to influence spell access. NEVER copy from a purchased scroll. In PFS/Org Play it is not an issue, same old 1.5*Scribe cost from NPCs or what you find at Scribe cost. PFS Campaign Mode should be the same. PFS CORE Campaigns are okay but basic and I'd avoid them (no APG, Familiar updates, etc and the martial types are way worse off than the wizard). Home Games... usually it's not too bad. With infrequent NPC access you can pre-learn spells you can't cast (yet) using Spellcraft so they will pop-in when you gain the level with your 2 free spells.
Races: depends on what you have access to. Human, halfelf, elven, and tiefling is fine. Halforcs and dwarfs have their survival/Con boosts. Samsaran(Mythic Past Lives{Witch}), aasimar(great abil scores), ratfolk(Dex, feats with other ratfolk), and ifrit/oread/sylph/undine are the best IMO.
Azothath wrote: Azothath wrote: ...
FYI the PFS note reads, When using the Shield Brace feat, treat the polearm or spear as a one-handed weapon. More specifically, when calculating the damage the weapon deals, it uses your Strength bonus instead of 1.5 times your Strength bonus, and it counts as a one-handed weapon when determining extra damage from the Power Attack feat. You may use Two-Weapon Fighting and other feats as if the polearm were a one handed weapon.
Hopefully that helps your Home GM make a decision.
Feat requirements are shield proficiency, Shield Focus, BAB +3 or Fighter 1st. (correction) the rest is a side discussion as noted by the opening.
Azothath wrote: ...
FYI the PFS note reads, When using the Shield Brace feat, treat the polearm or spear as a one-handed weapon. More specifically, when calculating the damage the weapon deals, it uses your Strength bonus instead of 1.5 times your Strength bonus, and it counts as a one-handed weapon when determining extra damage from the Power Attack feat. You may use Two-Weapon Fighting and other feats as if the polearm were a one handed weapon.
Hopefully that helps your Home GM make a decision.
Feat requirements are shield proficiency, Shield Focus or Fighter 3rd.
Discussing Game Balance aspects:
The requirements are not much of a problem for most melee types, particularly defensive shield users.
the clarification defines 'how' it works clearing things up, addresses two issues, opens up possibilities at the cost of 2hnd damage bonuses. It does take a different tact than the above suggestions.
Allowing better damage options along with better AC options isn't the best Game Balance. Better AC still using the weapon in hand with a bit less damage seems balanced to me for feat #2 in a feat chain. You could compare it to fighting defensively, combat expertise, or use Shield Brace while fighting defensively. The TWF option makes it useful for Dex or shield bashing fighters. By 11th level we are looking at +4 to +6 AC with 2hnd weapon use and then adding fighting defensively. It is a balanced mix & the more I think about it the more I like it.
Will it fit your Home Game? That is up to your GM, campaign, and group.
!Happy Turkey Days! Ψ‹(•¿•)›⸸
Shield Brace feat on AoN
Note that there's a red ring around the PFS icon, a sign that there's an issue.
FYI the PFS note reads, When using the Shield Brace feat, treat the polearm or spear as a one-handed weapon. More specifically, when calculating the damage the weapon deals, it uses your Strength bonus instead of 1.5 times your Strength bonus, and it counts as a one-handed weapon when determining extra damage from the Power Attack feat. You may use Two-Weapon Fighting and other feats as if the polearm were a one handed weapon.
Hopefully that helps your Home GM make a decision.
thelemonache wrote: Is there any way similar to Familiar Melding that let's you possess either a familiar or animal companion without leaving your body behind? Familiar Melding:N4
Soulswitch:N5
Share Shape:T4 is similar.
Post Magic Jar:N5 the body isn't a problem and best to keep it nearby (on your plane) for when your spell ends. You are not limited to your Familiar or Companion. You just need the right spell and there are several.
Animate Dead would prove problematic.
"site:https://paizo.com/paizo/faq "{phrase} is working as a Google site search.
it saves time when you kinda know what you are looking for. Just put your phrase/term in the search string. For 'paladin' just enter;
"site:https://paizo.com/paizo/faq paladin"
in google seach. no double quotation marks
at some point in the future Paizo will archive the old forums...
5) Marrgerrita Foetidortisizza (Gluttongluten cOven) Gingerbread Witch 6
In a twist, due to OGL spells of course, a caster can become a dragon through Magic Jar spell. Sure there are some trade offs but it is as close to 'real' as PCs get (before some weirdo capstone that'll never see play).
The 'early on' nerfs to polymorphing hit Shapechange spell and really made polymorphing less abusive & less attractive. It killed polymorphing to multiattack.
it is an issue of Game Balance stemming from the mechanics.
There's the dragon type. Also kobolds vs chromatic/metallic dragons. It's both thematic and an issue of CRs (those pesky mechanics).
If you want to model it using the mechanics then of course there will be throttling it down from CR6-9 to a PC race at CR0.
Unfortunately DnD3 ECL got totally dumped/ignored in PF1. It is a complex issue that requires a case by case scaling and costs.
We do have the sorcerer's draconic bloodline.
It's simply unfortunate that the class is 0.5BAB as that makes most of it ineffective.
there seems to be a terminology issue and that has been the issue I've been chatting about as it is being misused.
Strict RAW = explicit published text = directive, not interpretive = a pedantic reading.
Using that terminology restricts interpretation to explicit print.
Readers can not change a reference into a directive.
Often it is misused in an 'appeal to authority' to lend credence to some interpretation.
The Game, or RAW, is descriptive creative writing. It is not technical english or a textbook. How far that strict style of reading/interpretation is going to lend clarity or meaning is questionable as overparsing of text and losing context becomes an interpretive issue.
A better term is 'close to RAW' or 'simple reading'. That would mean you just read the text and do what it says within context. So here there is some room for simple interpretation. It would be questionable to turn a reference into a directive without good reason but a case could be made.
4) Kimsheeskum Burningfeet (Tinea cruris troupe) Bard 4 flaming-o dancer
the postman always zings twice
I'm sure the GM can handle special situations as needed keeping things fair.
Advice
IMO the Sor ability is overpowed and could use a fix. I don't see this ability escaping GM tweaking in any event.
If you just limit it to lasting 1-3 days (as PFS did) or use it to cut the Inscribe Tattoo feat crafting down to a stardard action (as it is now a consumable magic item) it is okay. I prefer the first option as the second makes the class underpowered.
Azothath wrote: Sorceror-Tattooed Sor archetype Create Spell Tattoo(Su) takes a standard action as a touch and has no gp cost although it does expend a spell slot.
An advisory Note from PFS exists on the ability on the AoN website. "A tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (i.e. not between scenarios)."
that's RAW.
AoN is the official online PRD thus it IS the Source.
Due to your desire for a pedantic explanation further explanation beyond RAW text is not necessary. The text is what it is. Simply do what RAW explicitly directs.
I assume you are using Variant Multiclass (VMC) alternate rules rather than taking UnMonk as a multiclass such as Multiclassed Wizard Diviner 2 Unch Monk 2 which is level 4.
Sorceror-Tattooed Sor archetype Create Spell Tattoo(Su) takes a standard action as a touch and has no gp cost although it does expend a spell slot.
An advisory Note from PFS exists on the ability on the AoN website. "A tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (i.e. not between scenarios)."
that's RAW.
I understand the desire to balace or correct an ability or power. Creative interpretation using logic or GM caveat is one way but general misinterpretation as RAW is not acceptable.
you are combining things that are seperate. Don't do that. Mundane, alchemical items, spellbooks, magic items are all different with different processes.
If the class ability directs you to use an existing process or feat, use that, otherwise just do what it says.
This is going to be chatty rather than RAW quotes.
Crafting an alchemial item like alchemist's fire or acid is covered under Craft Alchemy skill and the item lists. The Alchemist class has abilities and feats. Infusions and extracts are different beasts.
The alchemist's class abilites interact with throwing a crafted and paid for alchemist's fire alchemical item to do more damage.
A good example is a wizard crafting a Bonded Object Magic item.
Work out the wizard's level, time, and cost to give his 0gp masterwork bonded object amulet the powers of an Aegis of Recovery, and then (once the aegis expires) an Amulet of Spell Mastery. Consider the BO material isn't discussed as the wizard gives his BO the item's abilities.
If he wanted a BO weapon to bypass DR, he'd have to use a base weapon of that material otherwise he relies on total enhancement bonus to bypass DR.
Next read up on Sorcerer Tattooed sorcerer archetype. Realize the time, costs, and important limitations. Is it a free or paid for Create Magical Tattoo? Does it use active Spell slots? IMO it's all there, just read carefully.
Pulg's Fairy Trombone Orchestra wrote: proop too many "o"s made it sluggish...
lol... in which historical or fantasy context?
available artifacts(things) change with the historical time and artistic license.
Artists/writers read stuff and wanted to recreate that feeling and thematic play style in their work for others to enjoy. Sometimes it is just 10 cents a word. Once a thing is done and mostly works, it is carried forward.
PF1 overvalues weapon proficiencies.
Homebrew: Just add a trait which grants a set(2-4) of weapons, specific armor or shield based on fighter weapon groups or job use with prof(job) class skill.
they're back...
ummmm, I don't think one has to transition to BS... it's a ubiquitous quagmire ;^)
as far as corporate PR on distribution platforms besides the one you own & pay for, that's a corporate decision. People whine about the choices but it's all gravy for lazy consumers.
what is this Pathfinder thing again? ô¿ô
best of luck in your economic endeavors 【ツ】
New Paizo Store Launches the Week of Nov. 10th {08:00PDT}, Paizo Blog
Website at 14:00 EDT Nov 9 2025.
===
you can see the transition to bluesky(bksy) in the Meet the Author blogs starting in 2023 with Alex Speidel.
Sors salutis
et virtutis
michi nunc contraria,
est affectus
et defectus
semper in angaria.
Hac in hora
sine mora
corde pulsum tangite
quod per sortem
sternit fortem
mecum omnes plangite!
Sors immanis
et inanis,
rota tu volubilis
status malus
vana salus
semper dissolubilis
Obumbrata
et velata
michi quoque niteris
nunc per ludum
dorsum nudum
fero tui sceleris.
I did have to play with the quote as it got mangled in the previous post when I responded with the forum tool 'Reply'.
glass, you're quoting Toshy not Azothath(me).
At least get it staight as you are repeating my point(s) without understanding or insight and ignoring my previous post...
You should review Full Attack actions as there are several options. This is about one of those, thus debunking 'whenever' in general context.
Debate may not be your forte.
O Fortuna
velut luna
statu variabilis
semper crescis
aut decrescis
vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat
et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,
egestatem,
potestatem
dissolvit ut glaciem.
FCBs are tricky. +1 HP or trade it for something else...
For an arcane caster trading away HPs for a spell or two is a losing proposition and a double whammy with a Familiar. It's not much better for divine casters as they are expected to fight on occasion. Replacing those HPs with ioun stones or items gets very expensive very fast. When you're PC's dead, "he's dead" Jim.
Azothath wrote: yes, it works. Links to a folder with several subfolders and many powerful characters. ... update sorry, I was in a rush at the time, just verified the link and checked some stuff and was out tha door. I knew I'd get back to it.
I've reviewed Vallisa, human Sor 6 BL:Orc. 24 pt buy, 16000gp. Minor mistake with zeroth known spells, several trivial mistakes and only 1 dagger as a weapon. Some details missing. Otherwise a simple sorcerer build with focused ability scores(Str dumped) and highly focused on fireball, minimal skills, simple & minimal equipment choices. No background. UMD +14 vs DC 20 to activate wand.
It could have been a 23 pt buy but that is not how a player would do it to survive low levels given the ability scores. 3 FCBs as spells, HPs didn't support other options.
Thanks for posting these. It is interesting to see what other folks produce.
my change is systemic rather than class based.
Sorcerers with spontaneous application of metamagics make out.
You'll have to wait a few days for reviewers to comment.
Some commenters won't like any change. LoL. It's Homebrew.
If you wanted a list of undercast spells, use the bloodline spells. Easy peasy & done. *dang* that wuz so obvious
If you take bloodline Orc your undercast list is Bonus Spells: burning hands:K1, bull’s strength:T2, rage:E3, wall of fire:K4, cloudkill:C5, transformation:T6, delayed blast fireball:K7, iron body:T8, meteor swarm:K9.
just answering the gist of your post with concrete examples
Sorceror 6th level (Spontaneous caster) Cha 18 (+4) with varisian tattoo (K) and Spell Focus (K), Heighten Spell feat.
Known Fireball:K3@7 (7d6)[fire] Rflx:18 using SplLvl 3 slots.
He could also cast;
> Scorching Ray:K2@7 rng 40ft for 2 rngd tchs (4d6)[fire] using 3rd slot.
> Not Molten Orb:K2 as it is [earth, fire] so that extra descriptor stops it.
> Ear-prc Scream:K1@7 rng 40ft for (3d6)[sonic] daze 1r or save Fort 16 for dmg/2 & no daze using a 3rd slot. IF Ear-prc Scream is known he could use Heighten MetaMagic full round cast for DC18 (really the same as using heighten on Ear-prc Scream). I think I'd want an item or feat to allow metamagics to be used on a spell or short list of spells.
Wizard 6th level (Prepared caster) Int 18 (+4) with varisian tattoo (K) and Spell Focus (K), Heighten Spell feat.
Prepared Fireball:K3@7 (7d6)[fire] Rflx:18 using SplLvl 3 slot.
He could also cast;
> Scorching Ray:K2@7 rng 40ft for 2 rngd tchs (4d6)[fire] using the prepared Fireball.
> Not Molten Orb:K2 as it is [earth, fire] so that extra descriptor stops it.
> Ear-prc Scream:K1@7 rng 40ft for (3d6)[sonic] daze 1r or save Fort 16 for dmg/2 & no daze using the Fireball. Two possibilities; spontaneous substitution IF Ear-prc Scream is scribed he could use Heighten MetaMagic full round cast for DC18, OR a GM could just say no to spontaneous metamagic use. Again, a feat would allow a short list of spells.
Arcanist is the class in the middle.
Notice knowing or having the spell scribed isn't required for Scorching Ray. It IS required for applying a known metamagic feat.
Heighten is the easy & least complex metamagic. I don't see it upsetting the system. Reach spell at +1 (not +2 or +3), Delay spell at +1 are also safe bets.
Another metamagic feat might be too much especially for the prepared caster. At high level expect Quicken to be an option. Nobody wants prepared casters suddenly shooting out benthic scorching rays using their Fireball.
Personally I think the thread could transition to Homebrew.
what it does is say if you know a spell at 5th, you can cast something from the same school with the same descriptor at 4th. Then cast many more associated spells from 3rd. It's a choice with [descriptors], subtract one, add one, or change one.
We also assume the lower spells aren't quite as good and DC's drop, but you gained options as a caster and paid the price for flexibility. It also opens up Heighten Spell metamagic to being actually useful but for Spontaneous casters this means full round castings.
The Psychic/occult spells are more curated than the arcane/divine spell lists. Those are built with undercasting in mind. Just like the ICE/Rolemaster spell lists.
Okay - you could create a substitution list of descriptors. It lends some rationale to the changes but really complicates the system. Like Fire to Air or Earth, but not Water. I'd imagine four circles of change; emotion/thought/humours, action/forces/means, mass/elements, ways/processes/states.
expanded[italics]
Azothath wrote: adding a cross-connected(or non-exclusive) hierarchy to the spells would be complex. creating and adding a bunch of interconnected spell lists would be a pain in the Haas and just open up lots of second guessing and questions. You'd be fooling around with those lists for years.
Why not just stick with the same school and descriptors allowing one descriptor change per spell level decrease after the first spell level?
THAT'S THE RULE!
You'd just have to ensure the right →descriptors← are on the spells for your game. Converting some keywords like Cure, Monster, Nature, Space, Interdimensional, Void, Chaos(chaódis/anarchic), Neutrality(fysikós/aptus), Law(nómimos/axiomatic), Good(kalosýni/bonum), Neutral(oudéteros/rectus), Evil(kakía/malum), Positive(anáptyxi/zoí), Negative(diálysi/nekrós), etc would define and constrain the relationships more than arcane school.
descriptors is a technical term and linked to the RAW list. Adding more doesn't really alter how they function but describes how the work or the effects associated with the spell. So these descriptive details help create interconnections which is exactly what you want.
I included some suggestions for names rather than using the existing key words or terms to avoid alignment crossover or blurring the current meaning. A "relationship" is a technical term pointing to the relation or rule between two things or variables. This is what [descriptors] are for. You see it with rule interactions like [fire] and energy resistance 5/fire, immune to fire, vulnerability, or hardness.
Neutral/Neutrality should be unique rather than indistinguishable, vague, or considered the same. The original writers just muddled it and didn't care. Then "don't fix it if it ain't broke" cemented it into practice.
Example:
Knowing Sonic Thrust:K5 evokation [sonic], you could cast a K4[sonic] or a K3[fire], but not a K3[darkness, light].
again, I always write spells with their school and basic class spell level(Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Bard, Alchemst). I changed evocation to a K as it makes it unique and I'm for easy shorthand. NOT writing this down as a GM will create problems for items where the spell appears on different spell lists at different spell levels. Seen it too many times.
descriptors are in square brackets, like [fire]. Magic Item Body Slots(MIBS) are in square brackets for magic items, like [neck]. Charges are in square brackets, like [50]. This comes from math notation where square brackets denote a defined or limited set, such as [0,1,2,3,4,5] with 6 members and where 4.5 isn't valid.
Sonic Thrust{name of spell} : K{school} 5{Spell Level}.
I'm sure you can figure out the rest.
generally it's not worth it unless you want a lot of lower level spells or play a support role.
I think the Clr(VarPlgrm)-Wiz(Evok Admix) has the best combo with cleric baseline. Both can use prepared caster items.
The sunrod & feat need GM approval as the designers have been very clear about no shortcuts. Yeah, people still want to argue about it so expect the usual. I ignore it.
Outside of PFS, as some races require a boon, samsaran is your best bet to snag some off-list spells. The samsaran wiz diviner, evoker, or enchanter is very potent.
You can dip into Clr-VPlgrm and get the cleric spell list for item activation.
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