This seems awesome! Is it ready yet?

Still in development, the game is being released in stages

Oh, SWG.
How you were my first love and my first loathe, the best of worlds, the worst of worlds.
From being able to solo, to being nerfed to bantha poodoo in the Combat Downgrade...
You are both missed and remembered fondly as the first steps into a bigger virtual series of worlds.

That aside, there's an MMO out there already that kind of delves into the 'bump in the night' sort of thing with a 'craftian vibe to it called TSW.

Mileage may vary there, of course.

Comparing a themepark like TSW to a sandbox Multiplayer Online Evolving World like Revival is pretty much like....;

Comparing SWG to TOR...

Sure both have lightsabers but are they the same type of games?

Also, non instanced housing is largely unworkable in the long run, as shown by UO and SWG.

ArcheAge disagrees.

In the direction the market seems to want.

Otherwise UO or EQ would still be on top.

Revival is a niche mmo, just like PFO was supposed to be.

I don't see the issue? I don't rate my enjoyment based on what other people like.

Twitch interview with Ombwah the lead designer of the game.
http://www.twitch.tv/feedmepixelslive/v/31177643

Non hotbar combat, no thanks. Twitch + FPS + MMO means lag kills and I'm susceptible to FPS motion sickness.

You can be so much more than a fighter

With the unfortunate state of PFO I seriously ask the community here to consider looking at the upcoming Lovecraft medieval fantasy mmo Revival, its going to offer alot of the same opportunities that PFO has along with having servers that will be staffed by an active Storyteller team similar to teams found on NWN PW servers. The game is being made by the former lead developers of RIFT and will NOT be Kickstarted. Seriously check it out!

One last thing, the game will be using a similar character creator to Traveller the pen and paper game!

https://www.revivalgame.com/features/live_storytelling
https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/mission_statement
https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/game_design_theory
https://www.revivalgame.com/features/player_politics

Here is an early look at its housing in motion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_09SVnrSo

With the unfortunate state of PFO I seriously ask the community here to consider looking at the upcoming Lovecraft medieval fantasy mmo Revival, its going to offer alot of the same opportunities that PFO has along with having servers that will be staffed by an active Storyteller team similar to teams found on NWN PW servers. The game is being made by the former lead developers of RIFT and will NOT be Kickstarted. Seriously check it out!

One last thing, the game will be using a similar character creator to Traveller the pen and paper game!

https://www.revivalgame.com/features/live_storytelling
https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/mission_statement
https://www.revivalgame.com/philosophy/game_design_theory
https://www.revivalgame.com/features/player_politics

Here is an early look at its housing in motion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_09SVnrSo

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

It's been nagging me for days who Quinn looks like, and I just realized that he's David Alan Grier, down to the beard.

Well, to reiterate, I think he looks more like Professor Badass.. :)

I'm willing to bet that that his family are not foreigners. Lets just say the guy who wrote this knows his history.

Look up Sir Maurice and Chevalier St. Georges

Yes for cooking please, it adds to roleplay and honestly there should be travelling cooks. You give taverns bonuses when the staff or owners are great cooks. Better food and drink add to the value of a good tavern.

Add it please and cojoin it not only with campsites (which could just have npc cooks based on the quality of said campsite) but also for taverns.

In game roleplayer here. My cleric Amaziah Hadithi will be pretty much always in character as I am a heavy rper.

He will be a Garundi Cleric of Sarenrae, if anyone is planning on playing a Sarenrae worshipper let me know!

Looking forward to rp with you guys!

Mikaze wrote:

Peet wrote:

For the record, I think Sarenrae would make a very striking black goddess.

Oh I stumbled across artwork that might be perfect for that a couple of days ago. Will edit a link in if I can find it again.

Edit-Okay, I forgot about the borderline NSFW but artful covered toplessness, but still it's a beautiful design. Need to find the original source...

I think that's how I'm gonna have worshippers from Nantambu, Holomog, and Dehrukani view her.

I'd also love to see more Sarenrae art along the lines of Psiphyre's current avatar. :)

looks egyptian 2 me.

never viewed her as white anyway. always thought she had a bronze skin tone myself.....

While I like Sarenrae alot (she's my fav god currently) she is not either Garundi or Mwangi.

Also its getting a bit old for gaming settings to always -just- rely on female gods (or characters for that matter) who are of color. It would be nice for it to change. Especially in Pathfinder which does try to do its best as far as representation of its countries in respectful manners.

But yet we still have not seen any true black Egyptian gods (but there will be pics of black featured sphinxes around) Alot of the artwork for Garundis tend to not look anything like the original pics of the Garundis either as it seems like more and more artists are putting them in a more Moroccan looking type, while there is nothing wrong with this, it seems as if the original looks are being avoided completely and in some pics they are not even getting a Moroccan look. I expect this type of thing from WOTC but I am surprised that its happening here.

Male black heroic gods, NG, LG, CG, not evil, not corrupt, not apathetic and (sorry ladies) not female. Not wearing armor that makes him look like some Chaos Space Marine. Just a good heroic black male god that gives a damn about his people and is always drawn that way.

Not bronze skinned not questionable, not almost black, but absolutely black and not sometimes, but all the time in all the pics they are in. Iomedae always looks the same, and so does Cayden Cailean, and worth giving a damn about both of them are -always- white, not sometimes white, not every last Tuesday white not "if I really feel like it white". The artist I put in an above earlier post does excellent work on this type of subject and he knows his stuff when it comes to rl African and black gods. Let the ancient civilizations of the setting that look certain ways have at -least- a few -good- gods that look like them. Especially male gods.

I am more than willing to work with anyone who would like to do this and I can provide professional references.

Please

*Watches the CG groups and LG groups squabble amongst themselves* He shares an apple with a few children and has them watch so he can make a lesson out of the squabbling between the two groups*

"You see children, too many rules and too few rules results in situations like this. One must be like the wind and water, able to move and shift as well as fit with any situation, it is why a balance of Neutral good is the true way. Do enough to follow the rules that benefit us all and bypass the rules that step on the rights of others when need be.

True balance knows no squabbles because it simply adjusts and rolls with the punches.

Besides, the pursuit of good should be above all else. One's desires or -rules- do not come before serving what is good.

One truly cannot serve good if selfish desires or the need to dictate everything that others do is the true agenda.

To serve good first is truly the most selfless of acts, anything else after that is nothing but selfishness whether its personal or for one's so called good"

*He and the children continue to share fruit and watch the squabbles

*Walks out with a plate of steaming hot stew along with some soaps and clean washrags*

"Oh, did the vagabond leave? By the Dawnflower I had a bath prepared along with a hearty stew, ah well"

What about something along these lines?

One of the biggest issues in the debate for more level 12+ content is that only a relatively small amount of PFS players have completed Eyes of the Ten. While not getting into why there are issues with EotT, that would be a good way to narrow down potential candidates.

For Example: A new scenario/module is announced for PFS that would include the test of the Starstone. The level cap is set high, 10-12, to limit absolutely everyone from creating a submission. If it's announced early enough, you can give players plenty of time to prepare for the scenario.

Then Paizo can have some sort of contest for those few players that wind up completing the scenario a chance to become a canonized deity.

While still a rough idea, I think that this is something that could be done.

*smiles*

I'm glad someone likes the idea enough to suggest ways it can be done and not writing it off.

Its really appreciated, thanks honestly

Anyone know if Golgotha is pro rp?

Amaziah Hadithi wrote:

It could be a year long campaign like a tournament, those who last till the end make it to the final round.

So, let's see if I understand this correctly.

Paizo develops something approximately the length of an Adventure Path. Full art, maps, layout. Except that very few people purchase the adventures, and only one person purchases the final installment.

For the company to break even on that, each volume would have to be very, very expensive. My ballpark guess: six volumes, each on the order of ten thousand dollars.

Quote:

My reason for wanting to do this is that there are no good black gods, and no black gods worth caring about. I'd like to change that by taking this test. Waiting for this to happen could be something that never happens, or something that takes years. I don't want to wait that long.

None of the bucketload of Osirion deities is satisfactory?

Quote:

You got a test that allows this in canon.

Then you're in the wrong forum. None of the events of Pathfinder Society, nor any of the events from any of the Adventure Paths, is canon.

Quote:

Because I need a god that looks like me that my character can be a cleric of in the upcoming mmo.

You know, it might just be easier to contact Paizo and pay James Jacobs sixty thousand dollars, straight-up.

As to your question about the Osirion deities please read Erik Mona's response to my thread here, its on the second page

So when the COO tells you they aren't really there, well I tend to take their word

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2r499?Are-there-any-Black-gods-in-Pathfinder

Kakafika wrote:

I really see no reason to punish the low-rep characters further by allowing anybody to attack them without consequence.

I think that those that want to dish out cold vengeance should resign themselves to not being the most reputable pinnacles of law and goodness.

We have an alignment system and a reputation system, let them work .

I agree. I assumed that the intent of the reputation system is to cut both ways. Beyond the low-rep that everyone is talking about , there should be low-rep good represented by the exact behavior which Nihimon is advocating, wanting to summarily murder any "evildoers" (judged by whatever standard). Which is exactly the kind of behavior which LG characters are not supposed to engage in and which fuels the endless paladin threads we see on the Paizo forums.

*Dances because he is not LG, but NG, the greatest of all good!

"Good law is good until it gets in the way, no honor for the honorless!"

<== Servant of the Dawnflower

A neutral good character will keep his word to those who are not evil and will lie only to evil-doers. He will never attack an unarmed foe and will never harm an innocent. He will not use torture to extract information or for pleasure. He will never kill for pleasure, only in self-defense or in the defense of others. A neutral good character will never use poison. He will help those in need and works well alone or in a group. He responds well to higher authority until that authority attempts to use the law to hamper his ability to do good. He is trustful of organizations as long as they serve his utilitarian purpose. He will follow the law unless more good can come from breaking the law. He will never betray a family member, comrade, or friend. Neutral good characters are indifferent to the concepts of self-discipline and honor, finding them useful only if they promote goodness. (5

Hmmm...good stuff, looks like I have to bring over my rping in a sandbox articles myself.

Thanks for putting this up. Alot of people don't -get- sandboxes.

I could see the Ozem's Vigil as a space station. :)

"Chaplain Bladehammer the Litany of Fury is about to dock at our our chapter base space station: Ozem's Vigil!!!

For the Glory of the Emperah!!!

"What a dear 'ye is, Lady Sarenrae favors thee, yes yes! Now Old Buurz here be liking shiny things, yup 'she do. Emeralds especially, beautiful they be, and mysterious! Quite like myself, 'methinks."

<takes a puff of her enormous pipe before continuing>

"And adventure, aye little laddie, Old Buurz could tell you some tales! Me weary eynes have seen darkness, and thine light would have been a welcomed friend on those days, aye. Blood and smoke hath filled me nostrils many a evening, natheless me wit keep me safe, and me goat iwis."

<beams a wise smile>

As he returns after dropping off the Elf in a shrine he smiles at the old woman and replies

"I'd love to hear some of your tales wise mother, I am sure I would learn much from your stories. Another drink?"

Even if they did write a Test of the Starstone module (which has been hinted at), there is absolutely zero chance that the heroes who succeed would become Golarion canon.

Can you imagine? Every few months or so a new book would come out that had to explain that Sephiroth Dark the Aasimar Gunslinger was now the Golarion God of Being A Badass. It'd wreck the setting.

Not if all characters are pre approved before it starts. You must come up with a character that fits beforehand.

Amaziah, given the large number of PFS players and the interest this would attract, plus the need for Paizo to retain creative control over the game universe, how do you envision this working?

It could be a year long campaign like a tournament, those who last till the end make it to the final round.

They could also set specific parameters on what they are looking for. My reason for wanting to do this is that there are no good black gods, and no black gods worth caring about. I'd like to change that by taking this test. Waiting for this to happen could be something that never happens, or something that takes years. I don't want to wait that long and personally I"m willing to be a good enough sport to let them capitalize on my (and others) wants by doing this.

Everyone submits a reason on why they are taking this test. Paizo approves or disapproves the characters. Maybe the characters are filling a niche, maybe the characters are taking over the role of a dead god, etc.

I say they do screening based on the need of the universe itself, not because you just want your character to ascend.

So in a nutshell I prefer to be proactive about this and not just wait for "oh we will get around to that eventually"

You got a test that allows this in canon. Fine let me take it and if its a year long ride through hell then I guess I will find the best horse I can get for that ride.

Because I need a god that looks like me that my character can be a cleric of in the upcoming mmo.

@Amaziah Hadithi - thanks. @Mbando asks good questions. :)

Agreed, he is part of the reason why I joined Ozem's Vigil

Now on a side note Ryan, convince Erik to issue a Test of the Starstone in PFS so I can get a true black god ascended so my cleric can have a black god to follow in PFO.

And I'm serious I really want to take part of that test

*Grin*

Heroic Good LG, NG and CG black male gods, both Mwangi and Garundi and by black I don't mean dark arabic. I mean black looking with wiry hair and brown skin - undeniably black and not just some "who cares" Mwangi nature god. Gods who matter to the setting.

And the return of at least one Sky city from Garund

Something like this

Here're some great (to me) depictions of the Orishas (with brief notes on inter-relationships & areas of concern) - 20 in all:

Yoruba African Orishas by James C. Lewis

Carry on!

--C.

<Edit> Fixed the link.

I am an extreme fan of that project, especially a fan of Shango, Osumare and the Rainbow Serpent (a dragon) and Ogun.

If Ogun was in I'd totally make a cleric of his or Osumare

Honestly I must say that is the best post I've ever seen from a developer on an mmo forum. Hands down.

/bow

I really hope you guys are successful honestly, PFO and EQN for me are my only hopes left in the mmo game market.

Well if they ever allow the test for the PFS I want to take it. I am surprised they haven't already, its a great way for players to have a huge impact on the universe.

To be perfectly honest there are not enough of them in the setting right now, and the ones that ought to have Garundi features ended up a goth woman with white hair, a fey-looking white dude with half a face, and a nature spirit with a pretty inhuman form.

Honestly, this has a lot to do with the pantheon and the campaign setting being designed concurrently, so the gods had largely taken form before the ethnicities of the campaign setting began to gel.

When we get around to detailing the rest of Garund we will have more of an opportunity to address this issue, but for now we don't have a lot of great options for what you are looking for.

That being said, I can easily see the folk of Thuvia imagining Abadar as a dark-skinned Garundi, and so on, so there is always that somewhat unsatisfying tactic to fall back on before we address the issue in print.

Sorry for quoting your post again but I just want to mention why I am here asking this.

Right now I am awaiting the MMO that you guys are making which is Pathfinder Online. I would really like to be a Cleric, but when I look around the only god that I half find to my liking that I will be able to choose from will be Sarenrae a god of another continent. Even the Egyptian Pantheon which is coming to prominence is not a choice in the videogame, and while I know and understand that minority players really are the minority in a pen and paper game, there are far more of us playing videogames. I've played Pathfinder before, and honestly am fine with "waiting" on things in official text. But with a videogame its different, there should be more choices and options including one good option for people of color. By having to "wait" for Garund to be fleshed out there is a minute chance that one of these "black gods" that -might- get added be added as an official choice in the game. Videogames get far more exposure than pen and paper games and to give an example its no different from how DC comics tends to add more characters of color to their tv shows and videogames even though the comic universe is a bit lacking in comparison. More people play videogames and watch tv. Especially mmos.

And honestly I find my complete lack of choice in the upcoming online game disappointing.

Now on another note to be a good sport if the Pathfinder Society ever runs a Starstone challenge event for official ascension into canon. I'd like to be first called on the list. I want to take this challenge and I will win and I have no problem in doing it in your game universe officially.

Thanks for listening once more. I will leave this alone now.

I am curious of the possibility of taking the test of the Starstone to become an official deity in canon, is that possible and has it happened before? And yes I mean actually taking the test in a PFS event.

BrotherZael wrote:

With a rustle of movement, Zael gets up and walks to the door where he sits outside under a tree writing letter after letter which he ties to his pebbles before throwing them into the air and allowing the little sparrows to fly off to whatever destination is needed. While he writes his single eyeslit is intently watching the many newcomers walking into the tavern

Xorgrond sees a sparrow flying, carrying some sort of letter. He takes aim with his trusty bow as it flies over head. *Shoots* ... And a miss.

He grumbles. Walks away. After walking about 10 feet to the East, an arrow comes down from the sky, and lands directly into the top of his head. Ouch! *grumbles*... *falls to the ground*.

Thus ends the heroic tales of Xorgrond...

Amaziah as he walks back in sees the Elf and immediately takes him to the nearest shrine to get him resurrected. His face looks quite sad as he carries off the Elf before heading into the nearest shrine that he runs across.

Here's a list of classes from the Pathfinder SRD; the plan atm is to get those classes listed as "core classes", as well as Aristocrat, Commoner, and Expert. However, it will start with only Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and the above mentioned NPC classes. What you should take from the link is not the specific abilities of each class, but the general fantasy archetype that each one covers, as well as the "feel" of the class.

For information more specific to PFO, you could try the Warrior's Code blog (or my transcription of it, if you prefer). The blog post By the Time I Lose It, I'm Not Afraid gives good information on how the specifics of roles' abilities work. For details on specific roles, we have:

Cleric: Thunderstrike (and transcription)
Rogue & Fighter: You've Got the Brawn, I've Got the Brains
Wizard (and probably applicable to cleric too): I Put a Spell on You Note: This one could be out of date info.
Commoner (aka the gatherer): Dust Off the Moon and Let's Begin
Expert (and a little on gathering too): More Info on the Crafting System (and transcription)

Sorry, I'm not sure where to find Aristocrat-specific stuff. But that'll be the class that actually runs settlements, PoI's, outposts, etc.

Much appreciated. This info I am familiar with I just figured there was more detailed info on how things work in the actual videogame. But either way its good info to have handy, thanks again. It is cool that you can play commoners. Alot of rpers are going to love that.

I know the game is skillbased is there a thread/video/etc I can read/watch to find out about how classes work?

You should put up a Nazi Propaganda video next lol

Ozem's Vigil where you can have beer and ale while poking harmless fun at the LG guys if you are NG!

"Hey friend anymore starch on that shirt and it will be able to walk upright! Bwahahahahaa!"

Huzzah!

lol j/k

I'm part of Ozem's Vigil but I would love to come along for any adventures in the Spire for sure! And to provide healing!

OOC:

Sorry Amaziah, I recently got promoted and life has been kind of crazy. I will hopefully have time to continue our conversation soon as Buurz and her new found friend have much to talk about!

Hope all is well,

Saiph

((Not a problem at all, congrats!))

At one point the large Paladin made his way outside to the front of the tavern, he places the sleeping kitten inside his clothing to rest in one of its pockets so he can sleep.

Amaziah then starts his daily song prayers to the various gods his worships starting off with Saranae and ending off his song's epoch to a verse dedicated to Jalaijatali

Heroic Good LG, NG and CG black male gods, both Mwangi and Garundi and by black I don't mean dark arabic. I mean black looking with wiry hair and brown skin - undeniably black and not just some "who cares" Mwangi nature god. Gods who matter to the setting.

And the return of at least one Sky city from Garund

I get what you guys are saying about the no interference but I would figure that those same groups who would be doing such things that are supposedly against her tenets would wake up one day and find their abilities gone.

"Ah we just conquered this country in the name of Sarenrae"

Next morning..

"What, my connection to her is gone, my divine powers are not working anymore!..."

It would be no different from an alignment shift during a table session causing a Paladin to lose his abilities. I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense based on what NG is supposed to be. I mean even at a tabletop game there are supposed to be rules against such things and by breaking the rules of your order you lose your abilities real time due to an alignment shift. By saying (or enabling) such things you are basically making your rules moot and turning her tenets into hypocrisy.

GM "Oh sorry Pally your abilities no longer work because you took a turn to LE"

Pally: "Why would my abilities not work anymore? In year such and such clerics of Saranae invaded the Kingdom of Man for a holy war and their powers still worked, my act was no different from theirs"

Not to put words in Erik's mouth, but I want to say that what you're seeing there is actually the range that has always existed for the Grundi rather than an actual shift. Even back in the earliest days of the setting as it is now, the Garundi seemed to cover a wide range all the way from dark-skinned Seelah to the lighter folks you might find in Osirion(and Osirion itself seems to have a pretty wide range in skin tones in its Garundi populace alone, looking at Mummy's Mask).

That said, there have been pieces of art that were a tad pale and Caucasian in features for characters that were probably intended to be Garundi or Mwangi in the past(Serpent's Skull ran into this problem in a couple of spots, I believe) and there were some issues getting the right artwork for the right ethnicities to match the regions where they were the majority(Heart of the Jungle, some of the Alkenstar artwork). I believe things have improved though, particularly looking at Mummy's Mask, which has been wonderful for representing the ethnicity native to the region.

Mummy's Mask also introduced the first appropriate artwork for Ekujae elves.(well, half-elf, but still!) :)

Amaziah Hadithi wrote:

On a side note I would not mind seeing some strong gods from the places in the south, the kingdom who is arming up again to fight Geb who had the women turned to stone, along with the other kingdom that muse based Aasimar are from.

YES. Dehrukani(Mwangi/azata nation!) and Holomog(Amazon dino-riders!) have been on my NEED MORE NOW PLZ list ever since they were first mentioned. :D

This is for Erik as well. I highly recommend using Mshindo Kuumba for your Garundi and Mwangi artwork, He would do a great job creating some black gods and has done everything from videogame artwork to covers and work for DC comics. If you need some one to do black gods right Mshindo is your man.

Here is his Deviant Art gallery
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/gallery/

Some art he has that would fit for Mwangis
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Blood-Of-The-Titans-cover-fin-278317031

An example of a Mwangi type god
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Anikulapo-Poster-art-273524543

An Osirion Garundi typed character
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Pharon-color-155228176

More Mwangi type art
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Sword-and-Soul-Dossouye-cover-146382267

http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Legend-of-Golden-Claw-342172280

An Osirion styled character
http://mshindo9.deviantart.com/art/Pheonix-Rises-133940619

Thanks for those who answered so far! Can't wait to see more!

As the inventor of Sarenrae (who's been the main goddess of good in my homebrew campaign for decades now), my issue is that she's supposed to be the kindest, most friendly, most forgiving, and most open-minded of ALL the deities. That's in large part why she's the goddess of redemption, after all.

So, when you have a nation that outlaws that... a nation that outlaws the goddess of healing, honesty, and redemption... that more or less by definition turns that nation into a bad-guy nation. And that's not what I want for Taldor, any more than I want there to be a perception that Sarenrae is a warmongering goddess of warfare. She is not.

There was, alas, a fair amount of misunderstanding regarding her actual personality and role, I feel, in how things worked out with Qadira and Taldor, and the idea that there's a warmongering sect of Sarenites in Qadira is one of the reasons that Taldor outlawed the faith many years ago... all of which stem from the same freelancer misunderstanding that, alas, got into print (in large part because that was before my time as creative director, and before I had as direct control over the contents of things other than the Adventure Paths).

The more Taldor bans Sarenrae worship, in other words, the more Taldor shifts from being Neutral into being Evil, or the more we support the idea that there's a REASON a non-evil nation would want to outlaw the kindest religion.

It'll be a while, but you can expect us to continue easing the world canon in this arena back toward the initial intent in future publications. I hope some day in the future it'll be back on course. It might take an Adventure Path to resolve and explain away the thing, though.

I have a question, for being the kindest god her followers seem to be quite willing to invade other places (the northern Garundi territories, etc) they also don't seem to be as proactive against slavery as I would figure they would be for a NG religion. Why is this? I mean wouldn't she come and lay the smackdown on her followers who do things like this? I would have figured that they would be more into doing quiet missionary based invasions, meaning former hellholes would be turned to her by quiet invasions overnight of her missionaries entering the country instead of outright war like in the Kingdom of Man in Garund.

Its almost like she is NG but her followers in these cases are not good at all. I can see a CG group doing this because they feel they should liberate a place but NG resorting to outright war first? Not sure about that unless it was a place like Cheliax which they seem to turn a blind eye to, and that also does not make sense because I would think that an NG god's forces would be hitting certain places -first- and Cheliax, the
Hold in Belzen (sp?) would certainly be on my to do list if I was an NG god with thousands of followers. We'd be on those places like white on rice.
I would figure that there would be one NG god that non good people absolutely hate because he/she gets all guerilla strikeforce on your candy ass if you are doing horrible things to the people.

I've read one of the tenets of being NG on the Golarion wiki, and it says that they would not shy away from evil acts. Slavery is an evil act, but only some of them crusade against it? Is that really being NG at all? Or any good for that matter?

Are there any more proactive NG gods that don't tolerate things like that? Because if there aren't there certainly needs to be.

You aren't getting the beauty of the sun to shine in the faces of all if you simply just walk by or ignore those being used as human chattel on the street.

Not to put words in Erik's mouth, but I want to say that what you're seeing there is actually the range that has always existed for the Grundi rather than an actual shift. Even back in the earliest days of the setting as it is now, the Garundi seemed to cover a wide range all the way from dark-skinned Seelah to the lighter folks you might find in Osirion(and Osirion itself seems to have a pretty wide range in skin tones in its Garundi populace alone, looking at Mummy's Mask).

That said, there have been pieces of art that were a tad pale and Caucasian in features for characters that were probably intended to be Garundi or Mwangi in the past(Serpent's Skull ran into this problem in a couple of spots, I believe) and there were some issues getting the right artwork for the right ethnicities to match the regions where they were the majority(Heart of the Jungle, some of the Alkenstar artwork). I believe things have improved though, particularly looking at Mummy's Mask, which has been wonderful for representing the ethnicity native to the region.

Mummy's Mask also introduced the first appropriate artwork for Ekujae elves.(well, half-elf, but still!) :)

Amaziah Hadithi wrote:

On a side note I would not mind seeing some strong gods from the places in the south, the kingdom who is arming up again to fight Geb who had the women turned to stone, along with the other kingdom that muse based Aasimar are from.

YES. Dehrukani(Mwangi/azata nation!) and Holomog(Amazon dino-riders!) have been on my NEED MORE NOW PLZ list ever since they were first mentioned. :D

Read up on the Candaces of Meroe, I think the lady warriors might have been inspired by them and if they haven't they should be. One of them and her army took on Alexander the Great and his forces.

You can read about her here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_of_Mero%C3%AB

I used to be huge into RP but have fallen out of it in recent years as the majority of RP approached barfly type. I prefer character growth / tabletop campaign type stuff.

I don't have much faith that our literal actions in game will approach anything I'd consider real RP but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised actually. Think about the pvp, the crafting, the trading, the caravans, the political agreements, etc. All of these things can be played out in character and I honestly think it will be the heavy rpers who will have an advantage over the non rpers in the long run. Relying on things like simple emotes is shooting low as was mentioned but those settlements that have a heavy rp focus that mix their rp with actual aspects of the game will probably be the strongest there are in the long run imo. Especially the evil kingdoms. I know alot of "kingdom" rpers who when given the opportunity to play this game are going to be incredible because they won't separate their rp from the in game systems. In themeparks rpers are forced to do this due to the fact that they can't do much besides fighting and simple crafting that doesn't mean much.

Sandboxes are a completely different animal and rpers in the long run are usually the most dedicated players and the last to leave. Get a few settlements of rp-pvpers playing as bandits, mercs, assasins or heroes along with their rp-pvp bretheren who focuses more on settlement building, crafting and non pvp pursuits and yeah, those guys will be incredible. Even more so if you have a few pro rp settlements pop up to form a kingdom. Rpers also attract a huge number of followers who might not rp necessarily but like to be around them just to enjoy the show. And its one thing to have a band of mercs who are running around oocly all the time vs a band of mercs who are completely in character and follow their code of ethics to a t.

Mark my words the first great CE and LE "kingdoms" not settlement will be a full on rp kingdom. Rpers are so used to getting nothing or having little to play with that once the guest used to having a playground with alot of freedom in a sandbox like PFO (And this is happening right now in ArcheAge, and these same groups are preparing for EQN as well) They are going to go absolutely nuts with the fact that they now have games that not only force roleplay to some extent on everyone but enable those that really get into it to completely dive deep into it. Rping in a themepark just cannot compare and should not even be thought of as the extent of what rpers can accomplish in a game that works in their favor like any sandbox mmo. Especially fantasy ones which we have never really had before.

I can think of a few house guilds that were heavy/medium rp from GW2 that if they came to PFO they would be downright scary once they grasp the systems.

Hey lets face it, most people don't like pvp games period, they don't and trying to convince them that this time would be different is a waste of time. I think GW needs to just make the game and let its systems that they speak about speak for themselves. Even if those systems that are in place to deal with gankers and griefers are working 100 percent you still are going to have people out there who want an experience that is all pve and more like playing a tabletop. I am looking forward to this game, but if they truly wanted the Pathfinder rpg audience they would have built a game like the old Neverwinter Nights with its persistent worlds or the upcoming Shards.

I'm fine with the game as it is, but lets be honest it won't appeal to alot of people who just plainly don't like the concept of -any- pvp at all getting in the way of their idea of fun. Just the fact that there is only one server alone will kill this game in the eyes of many PVErs and Rpers, and lets be realistic most of the gaming community prefers an easygoing game that they can come home drink a beer to and have low stress fun. Its why themeparks do so well.

GW is going to have to really bust their butts to make those systems work and honestly they are going to have to build their own niche through word of mouth primarily.

Unfortunately EQN will be the game that many of those who wish a "less stressful" experience will head to if they are truly looking to play a sandbox.

"What prevents demanding outrageous sums to specifically get the target to reject?"

When Guurzak collect tribute, much happier just take reezunable shinies or shoes, too much work clomp da humies and den have to go sell dere stuff. Also Guurzak get bad name if clomp dem, no bad name if dem give shinies.

Ah a fellow Orc player. I shall make sure to keep you in mind if they introduce full blooded Orcs to the setting.

*Correction

The Great Father's Clerics staffs and staves are usually a twisted branch which is a walking stick, usually a formation of twisted tree branches that are still alive from a fruit tree. The staff still fruits and provides the clerics and any accompanying them with additional sustenance when none can be found. The fruit any type that have strong enough branches that can be used as a walking stick. Most of the time these are native Garund fruit trees.

To be perfectly honest there are not enough of them in the setting right now, and the ones that ought to have Garundi features ended up a goth woman with white hair, a fey-looking white dude with half a face, and a nature spirit with a pretty inhuman form.

Honestly, this has a lot to do with the pantheon and the campaign setting being designed concurrently, so the gods had largely taken form before the ethnicities of the campaign setting began to gel.

When we get around to detailing the rest of Garund we will have more of an opportunity to address this issue, but for now we don't have a lot of great options for what you are looking for.

That being said, I can easily see the folk of Thuvia imagining Abadar as a dark-skinned Garundi, and so on, so there is always that somewhat unsatisfying tactic to fall back on before we address the issue in print.

Thank you for your answer. I appreciate the fact that someone stepped in directly from Paizo to address this. I've also been noticing that the Garundi seem to be taking a slow shift from more African American/Ethopican feeling to more Morroccan/North African Arabic/dark Keleshite in the art, and this includes the Golarion wiki, is there a reason for this, just curious. I also noticed this in the few pics I've seen in for the Egyptian pantheon drawings.

On a side note I would not mind seeing some strong gods from the places in the south, the kingdom who is arming up again to fight Geb who had the women turned to stone, along with the other kingdom that muse based Aasimar are from.

It would also be nice to see more good Garundi/Wwangi gods, especially male (I noticed many settings seem to fall back on black female gods when they do attempt them - and while there is nothing wrong with this I'd like to see at least two males preferably)

I am surprised to see no Mwangi warrior gods, and am hoping to see one from the Zulu like country in the south (the one that has Zulu in the name)

Last but not least and this is my own creation a Garundi god based on how they colonize other lands, forming their own enclaves and their systems where newcomers are treated honorably for a month then starting on the lowest rung of the social ladder if they stay in that same area.

The Great Father - Garundi god of colonies
The Great father is the patron god of Garundi who form colonies in places not of their original homelands, he represents the honor given to those who follow after him and represents the traveling spirit of the Garundi. He stresses the importance of family and the belief that all Garundi are family and welcomed guests. But as with any family those who overstay their welcome must begin to earn their keep and forge their own way to repeat the cycle of welcoming any later Garundi arrivals to the community.

The Great Father's Domains: Family, Honor, Wind, Travel, Perseverance and Community

Shrines dedicated to The Great Father are raised immediately after an established Garundi community is formed. His churches are created after the community reaches a certain size to indicate that the community was successful and prosperous. Clerics and Paladins of the Great Father are known to make pilgrimages around the world to Garundi communities settling in the areas where churches of their deity have sprung up. Paladins are more frequently found in fledgling communities that have only had shrines set up. The Paladins living amongst the new communities to help defend them and vouch for them during the occasional cleric visit.

The Great Father are Neutral Good, respecting the lands that they have migrated to, but putting the wants and needs of the community before everything. It is also said that he is accompanied by orishas who represent different family members in a new community. The most famous of these Orishas is his companion/wife Nia who is also NG, her domains are Family, Travel, Healing and Compassion. Wives of Garundi households are the ones who make the first meeting of a new family arriving to a community. It is Nia's tenets that they follow:

"Always welcome our people with open arms"
"A warm house and warm smile are the best cures for the wary"
"Welcoming a traveller is no different from welcoming a new child into the world"

The Great Father's weapons are a long twisted traveling stick that is still alive and has leaves or flowers growing from it for his Clerics while his Paladins use the Garundi blades known as Flyssas, a fine weapon for protecting fledgling settlements.

Appearance; While both being old deities both The Great Father and Nia have an appearance of being in perfect shape in their late twenties early thirties, but their grey hair worn in long dreads are a contrast to show their true age. They are primarily worshipped by young couples and families who strike out to start a new Garundi community far away from home.

As with many of the other gods The Great Father's enemy is Rovagug who for him represents the destruction of communities and families. Clerics and Paladins of The Great Father are merciless in their dealings with followers of Rovagug, especially if such enclaves are nearby Garundi colonies, turning a mostly defensive approach into offensive or demanding that the new colony move to greener pastures if the enemy number of Rovagug followers are too great. Both Clerics and Paladins of The Great Father are known for destroying Rovagug cults on their travels if they are able but they are not willing to fight a losing battle as they know their importance to the new Garundi communities they must protect.

I'd also look into the Orishas, Shango and Olorun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olorun
Olorun

Shango
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango

Heh 38 and I am younger than alot of you!!!!

YAY!!!!!

lol/jk