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The spiritualist's phantom can't weild weapons and it's slam damage scales with basically nothing but damage dice, meaning it's damage ends up trivial.

You can't wear items in the same slots as it, so it can't get any of the star buff items unless you give them up.

In etherial form, it can basically do nothing but deliver touch attacks, something that is a novelty at best as there are spells or abilities on other classes that simply deliver touch attacks better.

I'm not seeing anything a spiritualist does that another class doesn't do better in every way.

Thier companion is so bad that I'm pretty sure you could do better with a familiar, and I'm rather certain almost every 6 level spellcasting class casts better then them.

So what I want to know is-
Is there anything a spiritualist actually does well, or is it as garbage as it seems?

So, I've been doing a bit of a thought experiment- could you make a viable monk with every single vow?

It's been a... Challenging task, but I think I have one.

All of the vows on one character:


Master of many styles, level 10

Str 7, dex 22, con 10, int 8, wis 16, cha 7.

Vow of chains (3 KI)
-1 to ac, to hit, and -10 movement speed
Vow of celibacy (2 KI)
Cannot receive benevolent touch spells
Vow of silence (1 KI)
Cannot speak
Vow of poverty (10 KI)
You have nothing but your weapon.
Vow of fasting (1 KI)
No potions
Vow of peace (2 KI)
Fight defensively or use total defense for the first 2 rounds
Vow of cleanliness (2 KI)
Keep yourself clean, don't touch undead
Vow of truth (2 KI)
Cannot lie (can't speak though, so, who really cares)

Total KI-
27 KI points

On a hit, you can spend 2 KI points to apply 2 negative levels to your target.

Cautious fighter, candidate for perfection

Agile +1 amulet of mighty fists

Weapon finesse
Snake style
Combat reflexes (7 AOO's. Really important.)
snake sidewind
Snake fang

Monk bouns feats-
Stunning fist
Improved unarmed strike
Crane style
Deadhand style
Deadhand initiate
Deadhand master

Quinningog monk stuff-
Barkskin (replacing slow fall)

To hit, fighting defensively
+15/10 (+1 when making AOO's)

11+6 dex +3 wis+5 monk+5 natural armor+5 fighting defensively -1 chains

Whenever an enemy misses you in melee, they provoke an AOO.

Reflex- +13
Fort- +7
Will- +10

The build centers around crane style, Deadhand master, and snake style AOO's.
You don't take all the vows until you at least have your amulet of mighty fists- hold off on taking the vow of poverty until you have it.

The build assumes a 20 point buy- a little high, I know, but I kinda need everything I can get to work with this horrible idea.

Any advice on how to improve this horrible plan? (Aside from not doing it)

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I was working on a charecter concept, and got super sidetracked, and did something silly.

Using serpent-fire adept, Ki leech from quinningog monk, and a non-magical waveblade, you can stay in the crown chakra state endlessly so long as you have a friendly living target with at least 5 points of dr of any sort.

The kobold will look something like 3 str, 16 dex, 8 con, 18 wis, 7 int, cha 14. (Before magic items)

Ki leech from quinningog monk.

Magic items:

+5 cloak of resistance
+1 agile, keen waveblade
+6 headband of wisdom and charisma
cord of stubborn resolve

important feats not given by serpent fire monk:

Great fortitude
Iron will
Extra traits (any trait that gives a +1 to fort)
Kobold confidence (targeting wisdom)

The end result-
the kobold has a +24 to fort saves and a +23 to will saves.
From there, the kobold gains +5 to both to saves vs chakra from thier cha score.

You can open all the way to throught chakra only failing on a 1.
When you get to throught chakra, you fail the will save on a 2.

Opening the crown chakra is the hardest, failing the will save on a 9, or the fort save on a 8.

Once you do this, though, you can stay in crown chakra basically constantly-
You get a +7 to maintain open chakras.

While this chakra is open, you roll all saves twice, only have to maintain once every 3 rounds, only need to roll either a fort or will save to maintain, and only fail on a fort save of 1. If you do fail your fort save, you take 7d6 damage, but you can heal 1d8+14 a round by picking crown and heart.

You'll never run out of Ki so long as you use Ki leech and flurry a 5 DR living target now and then- so long as you roll a crit (you roll twice per swing), you regain 1 Ki point per crit. This doesn't have to do damage, just crit, and your non-magical waveblade does 1d4-3 damage.

Remember to refresh your Ki leech spell now and then, and it goes on constantly.

Using your cord of stubborn resolve, you never have to sleep, instead taking 1d6 nonleathal you heal with heart chakra.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

open now

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

So, here we are.

Those who are getting in, please post here, and I'll pm you about your blessing, ire, or item, and work out what to do with them.

So, this is taking over for what seems to be an abandoned recruitment.

While new people may apply if they so wish, this is mostly for those interested in the previous campaign.

I will likely be doing something utterly crazy and taking 5-6 players.

As a result-
posts are expected every 1-2 days.
Things happen.
I slip up, you slip up, we all slip up.
But as a rule of thumb-
try to post every day.
I will wait an extra day before moving on if a post has not gone up, then move on anyway.

In addition- if I seem absent for a little while- simply poke me in discussion, it helps a lot.

revised basic charecter creation rules:

Character creation: 
-Gestalt rules (See here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm if you don't know them) 
-Level 1 
-Max HP at every level because you'll need it 
-Max starting gold for your class 
-One trait from the WotR player's guide and one other trait from anywhere that isn't another AP. I will want to see these traits in your character's history; the campaign one is obviously a big one, but no matter how minor the other one is, I want a justification for it in there somewhere, no matter how derailey or out of place it is. That's what traits are for. 
-All alignment are allowed . Yes, even CE.
However, all characters must, must be loyal to the party.
-25 point buy. 
Allowed content: 
-All classes in main, official Pathfinder, and all archetypes from across the line. If you're using a class with an Unchained variant, you will take that Unchained class automatically. If there's an archetype you feel is compatible from the vanilla class you want, talk to me and we may be able to work out some adaptations. 
-All races from pathfinder. 
-For equipment, feats, and all assorted other kinds of junk, all official Paizo sources are allowed. Go wild. 
- dream scarred press psionics are allowed.
Third party is on request. 
-I guess if someone REALLY wants it, we can have guns.
For fluff, I want to see all of these things in your character's backgrounds: 
-Their background (Duh) 
-What their motivations and goals are 
-Their personality 
-At least some plot hooks of some kind from their past. You've got freedom with it, but gimme something to hook my mouth on like a big, talky bass who you can reel up out of the water and get sweet content out of
-As mentioned, your traits, but in background form
Gestalt is a lot of stuff and first level isn't really where builds always shine through. So tell me what you're building toward and what you want to do. Not in depth, not a tactical rundown of your action flowchart, just a sense of how you'll play down the line.
House rules: 
-http://michaeliantorno.com/feat-taxes-in-pathfinder/ These feat house rules will be in effects 
-Levels are given when the story is along far enough and there is no XP. Given the bigger, badder beasties you'll fight being supermen, it's worth it 
-Instead of always being LG, Paladins are their god's alignment. Follow the deity's code. If there isn't one, you can ask me to write one up, but no promises.

Where it gets a bit more complicated-

Something else is lurking over your characters, something beyond even the worldwound, and it's playing games with you. Eventually, perhaps you'll be able to wrest control from whatever it is- until then, this is a near omnipresent force in your life, seeming to simply make things harder...

Sort of.

Up to Two players will have the "favor" of this entity, and will warp and mutate over time. These characters will have their race fundamentally altered over the course of the campaign, and if they're not careful, may become pawns in the creature's game- but those who resist grow more powerful and can turn the creature's "blessings" against it, in the end. Or, perhaps, something else will happen...

Up to One player will have the entity's ire- the charecter will warp and change, but will not neccecerily gain power from this. The creature with the entitiy's ire will find themselves filled with resolve, or perhaps pure spite- either way, they find new reserves within themselves in the most desperate of times.

In your character application, put a yes or no in regards to being a willing or not target of either ire or favor, or both.
this is an OOC decision only, your character themselves had no choice.

Players who do not get the entity's favor will instead get a magic item that scales with them as they level, from their deity in question.
If no deity is had, I'll work out what you get with you when you get in.

The player with the entitiy's ire gains hero points, and gains other benifits as they level to make up for the horrible things happening to them. They still get the scaling magic item.

Why are only two creatures getting the entity's "blessings?" Or one, for it's it's "ire?"

To make them feel more alienated, isolated, and afraid then if the party had got it as a whole- the changes are supposed to be far from pleasant, and are virtually guaranteed to be disruptive to the character's life, and ability to talk to people. A charecter is expected to likely hide thier curse from the party, even.

a homebrew deity that comes in all of my campains these days:

The nameless green moth-
Protection, magic, Darkness, animal
Insect, moon, arcane, defense.
Holy symbol- 
A tiny green moth made out of mundane crystal set in a silver pendent. 
Always costs as much as a silver holy symbol- no wooden versions exist.
A strange deity from what was a very small town, and has, in the last few hundred years, become a flourishing town with a remarkable agricultural status that has it's name known in nearly every town- Mentathalos. Nearly every town knows the name, as nearly every town has imports of odd and exotic fruits from this town. The town seems somewhat hard to access, as it often seems to consider itself it's own ever growing country, and requires quite a lot of magical backround testing to enter legally. In addition, the whole town seems oddly untouched by the events of the outside world, almost wholly unconcerned with them.
Those who do go there say that, while it is a beautiful, flourishing city that almost seems bugger on the inside of it's borders then out, there isn't too much else to be said. The people and trade are nice, but nothing seems terribly supernatural about the place itself, aside from possibly how well the crops grow.
Regardless of how evasive this community is, plenty of people seem to have learned of thier local deity, who is said to have once been a strange creature who protected thier town from warring armies time and time again, while being shunned and rejected out of fear, until it cost itself it's own life in the process. The one person who knew what the creature did while it still lived was gifted the wing of the moth as it died, the moth using it's abilities to wrap it around him as if it was a protective mantle,mbefoe the moth died in response to it's wounds. The wing was later fastened together with a single button, and is still worn by the man's ancestors to this day. It's potential powers are unknown, but there are cloaks made in tribute to this thst are bought, made, and sold in the town. 
The passing of time and lore has made this creature a dieity in it's own right, and still is said to watch over the town to allow it to flourish, and watches over anyone else who would extend their prayers.
It's clerics are no stranger to self sacrifice to protect those they care for, and are also no stranger to putting those to the sword who would harm others- but this is something to be done in defense of family. Most of the time, clerics of the moth gust live out their lives, content to make money, friends, do their jobs, and hopefully be a decent person.

Religion trait- 
Moth's awareness- 
You gain a +2 to preception and stealth checks made in dim light.

Magic item- 
Mantle of the moth- 
3000 gp 
While wearing this bright green mantle, you gain a +5 competence bonus to stealth checks made in any lighting other then darkness or supernatural darkness.
If the wearer is a worshipper of the nameless green moth, once a day, when a friendly charecter within 30 feet is about to take lethal amounts of damage, you can, the wearer can, as an immidate action, intercept the attack. This can teleport you up to 30 feet, in between the chsrecter and thier attacker. If it's a melee attack, you teleport into the victim's square, and they get pushed to an adjacent square farthest from the attacker. This movment does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The wearer becomes the new target of the attack. If the attack requires a save, the wearer takes a -5 to the saves associated with the spell. If the attack required an attack roll, it becomes a natural 20, and gets a +4 to confirm a critical.
In addition, this cloak cannot be damaged or sundered while worn by a worshipper of the nameless green moth.
This cloak counts as a holy symbol of the nameless green moth.

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A constant problem when I try to make any high level fighter build (theory-craft builds, mostly) is being able to bypass the fourth level spell, emergency force sphere.

While there are two notable ways to bypass it, one is questionable, and the other is nearly impossible to get on a fighter.

1) brilliant energy reach weapons. As brilliant energy weapons are stated to ignore "all non-living matter" they could plausibly bypass the sphere without issue. The problem is, all they're stated to do mechanically is bypass armor.

2) get a burrow speed, as the sphere is actually a dome that doesn't go under the ground.

I'd like some advice on how to bypass this horribly broken 4th level spell.
Only options open to fighter, please, "play a barbarian instead" is not what I'm looking for.

A chakram is a ranged classed weapon that can be used as a melee weapon at a -1, with a DC 15 reflex save to avoid dealing half damage to yourself, unless you're wearing heavy armor- then you don't have to make the save at all.

Due to being a ranged weapon, it can take ranged weapon abilities- namely, the designating line.

After the first hit, all of the rest of your and your allies melee attack rolls increase by 4, and damage by 6.

In the late game, when you can afford a +9 weapon, or in the mid game with warrior spirit from fighter, this means it's a +8 to hit and +11 to damage weapon on every attack besides the first.

- That weirdo who delves way too deep into the rules.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

renal leads the party into a blank room, with nothing in it whatsoever, and stsrts setti stones on the floor.
"So, before we go, anyone who has a request for supplies, let me know. Anyone who desires to learn to reincarsnte souls, let me know. Lastly, each of you will be given the choice of one type of magic item you would like to be able to make, and the methods will be imprinted psionically. Questions?"
Berith is following behind, rather confused.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

Chairs are layed out across this spacious room as you enter- there are ten rows of ten chairs, with an empty line in the middle to walk down. The walls are covered in ivy, and the floor is extremely well kept, soft grass, as is rsther normal for the company's buildings. The exeption is the floor under the chairs, thst seems to be a single slab of smooth, polished stone. The meeting hall is mostly unoccupied, and has been reserved for the applicants for today's expedition. A disinterested elf woman stands near the podium, revewing sheets on a clipboard.

Campaign prompt-

"Hopefully stay mostly human"

You've been called to work for the White Butterfly Company, one way or another.
The white butterfly company has risen to fame and wealth in a few short years, formed by a group of oddly money-minded Druids, offering services such as magical plant creation, companion animal awakenings, and improving agricultural sites.

The company revere's nature as much as any Druid, but in it's own odd way- it doesn't see humans as oppositional to nature, but just another part of it. Nature changes, and the dominant species is always on top. So the Druids are working with the dominant species to encourage more variance then normal in the animals and plants, knowing full well that humans will support normally ineffecent plants and animals so long as they are supplied with something in turn.

To this end, when the research end of the company found that there was a plane in the mealstrom with the single most magical fauna and flora they had ever seen, they decided to send an away team to inspect and somewhat colonize the area.

They call this place the island of relative order, a place with the magic of the mealstrom and some semblance of order that it normally lacks.

So, that's where you come in.
Offered 200,000 gold pieces each for your services, paid upon return, you were sent on what was expected to be a two month expedition.

Charecter creation rules-
25 point buy
Psionics and most pazio allowed, spheres of power/might, and path of war banned.
Third party is on request.
Slimalcrum, blood money, clone, emergency force sphere are banned.
VMC is allowed.

Start at level 6, ending level estimated to be level 16 or 17, but due to the open nature of the game, if you feel ready, you can challenge the final dungeon whenever.

Starting weath of 16,000 GP, plus any weath gained by your position in the expedition.
Any weath vital to your functioning on this expedition can be pitched as "vital" to the white butterfly company, and if the pitch succeeds, you can get it at cost, instead of market price.

In addition, you get a magic item of questionable use for free.
A magic item of questionable use is one that uses a skill unlikely to come up at all or is rather minor in nature. For example, one of these on a non-bard. This is just to let you fill out your backstory with outlandish things, if so desired.

what the company is looking for:

The team is looking for-
A stonemason who can build a stronghold to use. 
Somone who can craft potions, or is exceptional at alchemy- either will do. 
A botanist 
Somone capable of escavating Rock in large amounts, be it a Mage, or just a really talented miner. 
Somone able to survive off the land, preferably well enough for the whole group. 
A cartographer. Yes, really. 
A linguist who knows all of the outsider languages. 
Crafting other, non-potion magic items is not considered vital, but is valuable.
The company will also provide magical items as needed for each of these roles to function. 
The survivalist will be given a tyrant's friend, the person who escavates will be given magical components for spells or a magical pickaxe, the stonemason will be supplied masterwork tools of all sorts, along with a handy haversack or bag of holding, the cartographer will be given a Blessed book*, the botanist will be supplied masterwork tools, and the Alcmenist will be given a unique portable alchemy station, for creating potions out of odd ingredients.
*doenst get the free inscribed spells, just a lot of paper for mapmaking and note-taking.
All those going on the mission are expected to be competent combatants, or so invaluable across so many fronts that they're worth protecting. 
All mage's are also expected to have eschew materials, due to the lack of traditional compoenents on the "island".

So, my currently working on another one of my ideas, and wanted to see if there was any interest before I started putting it all together.

The party, trained for an expedition and sent through a portal to a island in the mealstrom to harvest rare magical rengants, find the portal closing behind them, stuck on a huge island full of intensely magical flora and fauna, where teleportation seems to falter in the spacial riptide.

The longer they are here, the more obvious it is that other sentient things used to live here, but seemed to have vanished entierly, and there doesn't seem to be a visible end to the island, where the island becomes "mealstrom" once again.

The creatures on the island act like normal predator and prey- most of the time.
however, when they see the party, many of the local creatures will attack- they will even stop fighting each other, and fight the party as a group.

Obviously, something bigger is going on here, but only time will tell what's really going on.

The game planned is inspired by quite a few things, but the most notable one is monster hunter-

The large beasts on the island have incredible amounts of health, taking beatings far beyond the real of possibility, and shattering debilitating magical effects on them in only a few seconds.

The game would start somewhere between level five and six, and most pazio material is allowed, along with most psionics.

Other third party is on request, aside from certain pre-approved things that will be listed if the campain concept sees some interest.

In addition, there will likely be a custom pantheon of deities, rather then the normal ones.

a large caveat is that if the game does go live, that the game is largely focused on player action, and envormental reaction. as such, having at least one party member who is willing to drive exploration or do things like lead the party into making a base is very helpful- as they're really isn't anything telling you where to go.

So, I'd be glad to hear about interest, if anyone has it.

Does lightning stance give total concealment, or what?

Concealment gives 20%, total concealment gives 50%, but lightning stance says 50% concealment.

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While the caster/martial discrepancy is well known, some preticular offenders come up time and time and time again, to the point where I'm baffled nothing has been done.

Clone and simulacrum-

Two spells that completly break the game, allowing for contengnecy resserection and the creation of creatures that are so strong they may as well be a whole extra charecter.

These two spells are so mind-bogglingly broken, but they really get out of hand because of-

Blood money-
Conceptually, this spell is neat. In practice, it's broken.
It's even more broken because, as far as I know, they still haven't come out and said that "blood money + ray of enfeeblement" doesn't work.

But both tend to pale in comparison to-

Emergency force sphere-
The single worst spell I have ever seen printed.
Allows you to stop any incoming attack from any direction but down as an immidate action, and makes you immune for your level in turns so you can buff or teleport away, all as a 4th level spell. This single handedly negates a martial's abilty to kill a caster, as the caster can throw this up instantly and then teleport away. Speaking of teleports...

Why oh why are teleports still a full round or standard action?
This allows mages to get away from threats with little more then a five foot step and a snap of thier fingers. Even if it took two rounds, it would give Martials precious time to interrupt the ability, but instead, it's considered acceptable that wizards can basically always flee to see another day. While yes, this can be sorta negated with step up, that doesn't really solve the issue, because they can then take a crack at casting defensively, or if they're a conjuration wizard, teleport as a swift action.

If all of this was intended, then frankly, every enemy wizard should be abusing these spells-
After all, with a high INT and spellcraft, they would certianly know what they are, and what they can do.
Basically every wizard above 7th level should have emergency force sphere prepared.
Every wizard above level 13 should have an army of blood money similacrums, and blood money permanaced spells, and a contengnecy.

Contengnecy is another problem, but that one is so obvious I won't even go into it.

It just seems like these spells are being willfully ignored, as they pick apart martial options.

I don't get it.

Alright, rant over, you can go back to your leasurely form scrolling.

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So, I'm making a thread to house my insanity builds.

So, whenever I come up with a new build using some oddball option, I'm gonna put it here for review.

So, we begin with deadly stroke dwarven swashbuckler.

wait, you're serious?:

This build is designed around level 12, when deadly stroke comes online, and then a lot of abilties round out the level after.
assuming an 18 str, dex doesn't matter too much.

Level 1- Swashbuckler finesse, power attack.
Level 3- weapon foucs (heavy pickaxe)
Level 4- furious foucs
Level 5- dazzling display.
Level 7- Weapon specalization (heavy pickaxe)
Level 9- shatter defenses
Level 11- deadly stroke
Level 12- combat stamina

Favored class bouns-
+1/4th a point of damage to precice strike.

Weapon- +3 vicious heavy pick

Damage 1d8+2d6+2(weapon training)+2(specialization)+6 (two handed str)+12 power attack + 15 precice strike+ 3 enhancement
Average damage 51.5
To hit +23

Using penache, you can double precice strike damage as a swift action for one attack, increasing average damage to 66.5

Attacking a flat footed, stunned, or, at the cost of ten stamina points, flanked foe as a stnadard action doubles damage and adds one point of con bleed, dealing 133 damage with a single hit. If this kills or knocks unionsious the target, a penache point is gained, so long as the target was aware of combat.

This is easiest agaisnt targets that have not yet acted in combat, and due to having an open move action, it's easy to move to them. If in a suprize round, it's often best to not use the swift action to double precision damage, reducing damage to 103 average, but not costing a penache point, unless you know you can afford it.

Even without using the feat, your full attack still looks like-

+23, +14, +9, all dealing an average of 51.5 damage, 44.5 if you deactivate vicious.

Any way to make it better?

Simple question, does deadly stroke work with precision damage? I see no language that says it doesn't, but most of the time things that double like this don't work.

I'm really bad at math.

The open hand monk can do some... silly things.

But I don't think much tops beating people up with a longbow.

With 5 levels in open hand monk, and 9 levels in evangelist of erastil, things get really silly.

Due to the Devine boon of erastil, you get your wisdom added to damage and to-hit, so long as you use a longbow against a target within 30 feet.

And thanks to open hand monk, it's a two handed melee weapon. So you get str and wisdom to hit and damage.

Not the absolute best out there, but I find it really funny that this works.

Oh, and as always, surprise weapon for a +2 to hit.

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So, while snooping around the ost, I noticed that halflings can Probobly manage to non-magically protect parties.

Cautious warrior
6 fighter levels, and the feats-
1) blundering defense, cautious fighter
2) improved unarmed strike
3) dodge
4) crane style
5) toughness
6) draconic defender

So, by level six, when you fight defensively, you gain a +7 dodge bouns to ac, take a -2 to hit, supply a +3 luck bouns to ac to all adacent allies, and a +7 natural armor to one more ally.

But, taking this a step further...

getting elaborate, now...:

Take a 1 level dip into master of many styles to get improved unarmed and crane style, and replace those with mobility and weapon finesse- this allows us to get into a rarely used prestige class- duelist, all but forgotten when swashbuckler became a thing.

Cautious warrior, helpful (halfling)
6 fighter levels, 1 monk level, and the feats-
1 [fighter]) weapon finesse, cautious fighter
2 [moms]) improved unarmed, crane style
3) blundering defense
4) dodge
5) crane style
6) toughness
7) draconic defender

Then, dulist starts up-
Level 9- fencing grace
Level 10- parry- you can now full attack with no adjacent enemies to use those attack to protect your adjacent allies, while still fighting defensively.
Level 11- bodyguard- allows you to give another +4 to the ac of an adjacent ally with an AOO. Comabt expertise is effectively gained at this level, gaining it's benifits so long as you weild a light or one handed pericing weapon. If your DM says you still have to take the feat, take it at level 9 instead of fencing grace.
Level 13- crane wing- just nice to have. Can replace with fencing grace if you had to take comabt expertise at level 9.
Elaborate defense comes online, giving you another +2 while fighting defensively, and +2 more to the natural armor bouns your provide, +1 to the luck bouns.
Level 15- lucky halfling.
Level 16- another +1 to fighting defensively, +1 to the luck bouns you grant, and +1 to the natural armor bouns, for a total of +5 luck to all adjacent allies and +10 to natural armor of one, with the ability to take AOO's to give another +4.
Level 17- uncanny defense supplies a +5 to ref saves and CMD. Crippling critical is great, make sure you pick up a keen rapier.

Alright, so. Any ideas how to make it better?

If you maximize the paladin spell hero's defiance, what exactly does ot do?

Maximize the full lay on hands?
Maximize only the 1d6 the spell gives?
Or just nothing at all?

So, when I found the drake companion archtypes, I was really exited for it, and they quickly became one of my favorite archtypes in the game.

There was just one notable problem- they were kind of... Mediocre, at best.

Usually, the animal companion replaced could end up more powerul then the drake every step of the way, and it cost you extra class features to get it.

So, I decided to foucs on two archtypes that have normally restrictive animal companions,

The cavalier and paladin's.

The cavalier gives up most of it's teamwork feat synergy and the paladin gives up an assortment of class features, changes it's spellcasting, and gets less smite evil, for the best drake- the only one that gets mount for free.

So, the drakes have a few notable advantages, and a few glaring disadvantages-

Pros (over paladin/cavalier mounts)-
The drakes get 1d12 HD, full bab, and great con.
The drakes get immunity to sleep and pearalyis, and can fly.
Can take a lot more versatile feats, and can't be handle animal'ed by other charecters.

Bad AC compared to an average animal companion, can't wear barding, can only wear one magic item (much to my frustration), lower STR then most animal companions, lower DEX then most animal companions. No replacement, ever. Really back loaded.

So, how to make it work-

There are a few skeletons of drake builds that I came up with that might help make drakes work a bit better-

The Book Wyrm (paladin build):

Water drake-
Free drake power (swim)
1st drake power (intellect)
2nd drake power (breath weapon (acid))
Free drake power (mount)
3rd drake power (improved swim)
4th drake power (keen mind)
5th drake power (scent)

Skill points-
Maxed preception, maxed swim. Spread the rest as you deem fit.

While not strictly required, deific obeince (iori) is grest for this. But, one could argue the drake would never worship a deity, so this is up in the air if it's allowed.
Versatile obedience gets you acess to 1/day haste, and let's you get it sooner.
Noxious bite- a cornerstone of all my drake builds. Every bite is a fort save or become more or less useless for 1+the drake's con rounds. Really good.

Required feats for the paladin-
Unsactioned knowladge-
The 1st, second, and fourth level spells don't matter. But you want sky swim as your third level spell.
Mounted comabt and trick riding- this is how you prevent your sub-par ac from destroying your drake.

a proper flying drake (cavalier build):

Air drake-
(free) Glide
1st- acid breath weapon
2nd- mount
3rd- flight
4th- improved flight/improved mount
5th- improved flight/greater flight

Noxious bite
Improved unarmed strike
Crane style
Draconic defender

Required feats for rider-
Mounted comabt, trick rider

who needs to fly? (Cavalier build):

aether drake-
Free (magic attacks)
1st- acid breath weapon
2nd- mount
3rd- improved breath weapon
4th- greater breath weapon
5th- aether bite

Noxious bite
Distracting charge
Duck and cover
Coordinated charge
Ability foucs (breath weapon)
Power attack

Required feats for rider-
Mounted combat
Trick riding
Duck and cover
Coordinated charge
Distracting charge

Other things to note-
Consider a permanenced magic fang instead of an amulet of mighty fists.
permanenced resistance can be handy, too.

The rider might want a perm ended reduce person spell or a hat of disquise (greater) for the levels where the drake is medium size.

If you can get the drake to agree, order of the sword is a favorite of mine- adding the drake's STR to damage on a charge at level 8 is far from insignificant.

If anyone else has ideas, I'm open. Also considering making a full guide, if people like this.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

16 years ago, in the vast gardens of Erith...

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

Alright, so. Figured it would be better to throw up all the public knowladge in the campaign tab.

It might be a bit crude for a while, as I've not actually written most of the setting down before- it's been a lot of planning with a friend vocally.

So, if something is missing, or doesn't make sense, odds are i just forgot to write it down, or made a typo.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

Fireday, Deznus 27th. Salrin- Crescent moon, dormis- full moon. 8:30 pm. Sun is setting. Warm, cloudy.

a man stands at the border of the swamp. He waits idly for his partners to arrive, as he takes in the foul air of the swamp. He knows full well there's got to be horrid beasts in there, and he needs to clear them out, as few people ever come back from the swamp alive. Crossroads has even agreed to pay anyone who goes with him on the trip to help, so long as they come back alive, and bring proof of them killing the foul creatures there. Word has it that there is even a necromancer that resides there, preforming his dark arts on the corpses of those who fall.

The man is somewhat early, as he awaits the people who are to show up to help.

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M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

And here's a discussion thread. The campain thread won't be up until I've got enoguh world finished to start.

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So, I'm juggling this idea around in my head where the basic concept is as such-

At the beginning of the game, the charecters anger a powerul witch in some way, and are reincarated (via the forced reincarnation grand hex) into a monstrous race of some sort, be it kobold, gnoll, strix or goblin.

The world in question is far more human-centric then normal, and those not of the core races (and even some of the core races, namely half-Orc, half-elf, and to a lesser degree, gnome) are hated and feared.

The campaign will foucs largely on relations between player charecters and a struggle to get society not to hate you, or simply remove yourself from it, leaving your old life behind for one of misunderstood fear.

Odds are, there will be more talking in this game then combat, but combat won't exactly be rare, either.

There are goals that can be chased after, but what goal is yours is up to the players-

The endgame goal could vary from returning to your normal forms permannetly, slaying the witch that wronged you, getting as much of socioty as you can to accept other races, or even massing armies of these other races to usurp the tyrant humans, all depending on what the charecters desire, and when they think thier job is finished.

Any interest in this concept? If so, I'll flesh it out some more, but I don't wanna spend too much time making a setting that no-one will ever play.

Also, not sure general discussion is the right place, but I didn't know anywhere better to place it.

My favorite teamwork feat, by far, is Elemental Commixture.

But I can't figure out what happens when you use it with elemental acessor.

I think it's one of the following-

1) it's an invalid combination

2) it has all the effects of each element blended with each of the secondary element (if the secondary is elemental acessor, it has the effects of every blend.

If two, then-

1) the secondary effects stay the same after it decides a damage type.

2) the secondary effects change when the damage type changes, only being the damage type it is currently dealing and the secondary spell.

Any input on this?

I've always loved curses, to be honest.
Not the "static penalty to a stat" curses, the ones that are a little more creative.

So, I deicde to make builds around coping with living with a specific curse.

I'm going to start with chaos beast's corporeal instablity.

The class that works best for living with corporeal instablity, I would say, is martial artist monk.

At seventh level, you're immune to the wisdom drain.
You rely very little on magic objects that aren't always on, and these are small enoguh (belts, headbands) to not trigger the negative four to DEX from corporeal inotability.

Contributing in combat, however, would end up quite a challange, with a -4 to hit and a 50% miss chance that isn't acutally concealment.

I'm thinking there's an item that gives you blindsight to the reach of your weapon.
That could work.

So, looking at the sever branched sword, it gave me an idea for a build.

This idea eventually manifested into this fear chain.

It isnt needed to make the build work, but I think it might be cool to share.

(Any reference to "snag" refers to using the special ability of the seven-branched sword.)

seven branched sword, found under eastern exotic two handed weapons:
This unusual sword has a straight 2-foot-long blade with six shorter L-shaped blades protruding, three on each side in a staggered pattern.Benefit: The shorter blades can be used to snag opponents’ clothing or armor, or can target weapons in order to disarm them. To snag armor or clothing, the attacker makes a trip attempt. If successful, the victim doesn’t fall prone, but instead is snagged and stumbles forward, leaving the victim flat-footed for the remainder of the round.

the main chain:
Fox style-
You use a inefficient weapon to devastating effect, pulling foes with the side blades to throw them off guard.

Prerequisites: Str 15, int 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, exotic weapon proficiency (seven branched sword), acrobatics 3 ranks, bluff 3 ranks.

Benefit: While using this style, you can wield a seven branched sword as a one-handed weapon. A seven branched sword is now considered a trip weapon, adding it's enchantment bonus to trip attacks. You gain a +5 to resist trip attempts while using this style, and a +5 to the dc to feint you.

Normal: wielding a seven branched sword takes two hands, and it doesn't have the trip weapon feature.

Fox trick-
You improve your arts of confounding bladework, slashing and grabbing skin as you pull them foreword for a relentless attack, often knocking them over.

Prerequisites: Str 15, int 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, exotic weapon proficiency (seven branched sword), Fox style, improved trip, acrobatics 5 ranks, bluff 5 ranks.

Benefit: in addition to the benefits of fox style, you gain a +5 to trip attempts to trip an opponent who was snagged in the same turn while using the seven branched sword to trip. You can trip creatures two size categories larger then normal. When you snag an opponent, you can choose to snag flesh instead of equipment, dealing the weapon's damage (unmodifed by str or power attack) to the victim as well as snagging them.

Normal: you don't gain a +5 to trip snagged foes, you can only trip creatures 2 size categories larger then you, sang attempts don't deal damge.

Fox cruelty-
You master the style of the ancient sword, cruelly attacking foes with debilitating strikes. Intellect supports your every move, using every flaw your opponent has and every opportunity you are given to lash out, combing your confounding blade with deadly unarmed strikes against your bewildered foe. This must be the true power and purpose of this ancient blade.

Prerequisites: Str 15, int 17, Improved Unarmed Strike, exotic weapon proficiency (seven branched sword), fox style, fox trick, improved trip, greater trip, Madusa's wrath, acrobatics 11 ranks, bluff 11 ranks.

Benefit: While using this style, you can, after snagging a foe, flip around the foe, delivering a kick behind them- if your next attack roll is a unarmed strike and hits the foe, you can make a trip attempt against the foe as a free action. When a foe provokes an AOO from being tripped by you, you can use this AOO to make a dirty trick maneuver, or a special combat maneuver with the seven branched sword. This combat maneuver uses the blade to sang the target's leg muscles, and wreck them. If the combat maneuver is successful, you deal damage normally, and the target's base land speed is reduced to 5 feet for a number of rounds equal to your Int modifier unless it makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Int modifier).

Normal: you cannot make a trip attempt with an unarmed strike. You cannot make an AOO to cripple a foe.

a few others:

Fox cunning -
You rely more on thought and carefully planned movement then instinct and quick reactions.

Prerequisites: Str 15, int 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, fox style, acrobatics 5 ranks, bluff 5 ranks, monk level 1.

Benefit: While using fox style, you can add your INT bouns to AC and CMD instead of wisdom when unarmored. Your int bonus to ac reverts to your wisdom bonus to ac while flat-footed. You gain a +5 competence bonus on opposed perception checks to find creatures using stealth, even when not using fox style.

Normal: monks add their wisdom bonus to ac when unarmored, and don't gain a +5 to spot creatures using stealth.

Fox finesse-
You've found ways to use your natural finesse to master styles you would normally need to be much stronger to even attempt.

Prerequisites: dex 15, int 13, weapon fenesse, acrobatics 3 ranks.

Benefit: you qualify for all feats as if you had a str score equal to your dex score.

Normal: you don't treat your dexterity score as your str score for the purpose of prerequisites.

Special: if you have the fox style feat and a seven branched sword made of mithril or other half (or less) wight material, you can treat it as a Light weapon while using fox style.

Thoughts? Comments?
Balance issues?
Is this, and my face, dumb?

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So, I was looking at sheik in brawl, and thought "you know, if rouges could do some of this stuff, they may be a little more interesting."


I made a string of needle based rouge talents, along with some other things that came to mind. Thoughts? Balance issues? Notice Any poor wordings? Obvious typos I somehow missed? Rage complaints about how throwing needles is "too anime"? Comments on how my face is dumb?

rouge talents:

Needle throw-
Perquisites- 15+ dex.
The rouge gains proficiency in needles. Needles are a thrown weapon, but can be drawn like ammo. Needles deal 1d2 piercing damage and deals *2 damage on a critical hit. The needle has a range increment of 10 feet, but if it is within sneak attack range, it takes no penalty to hit from range increments. When you critical hit with a needle, precision damage is multiplied.
Needle proficiency is not available through feats.

Stunning needle-
Prerequisites- needle throw
As a full round action, you can throw one stunning needle. Stunning needle forces a foe damaged by your needle attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round. If they are stunned by this attack, they also take sneak attack damage as if they were flat-footed when you made this attack, if they weren't already. Creatures immune to sneak attack are immune to stunning needle, along with incorporeal creatures (unless the needle is ghost-touch), and plants.

Piercing needle-
Prerequisites- needle throw
As a full round action, you can throw a needle in a straight line, to it's maximum range (100 feet) The needle makes and attack roll against each character in that line, closest first, until it fails it's attack roll.

Flawless aim-
Prerequisites- needle throw
When you make a called shot with a needle, and it hits, it always has an effect as if the called shot was a critical hit. This does not effect the damage of the weapon.

Shocking needle-
Prerequisites- needle throw, spell-like ability that does damage on a melee touch attack.
Select a spell like ability that does damage on a melee touch attack. As a swift action by expending a use of you spell-like ability, you can add the spell damage to a needle you throw. This does not carry any non-damage effects from the spell. The spell critical hits if the needle does.

Desperate shot-
Once a day, the rouge may add his level to hit.

You add your level to all acrobatics checks, and halve all jump dc's.

Greater rouge talents-

Astounding accuracy-
Prerequisites- needle throw
As a full round action, you can make one attack with a needle. Your sneak attack range increases to 100 feet for this attack, and the attack treats the foe as flat-footed. Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this talent.

Astounding accuracy, improved-
Prerequisites- astounding accuracy
When using astounding accuracy within 30 feet, you always threaten a critical.

Absurd accuracy, greater-
Prerequisites- astounding accuracy, improved
When using astounding accuracy, you always threaten a critical.

feats, not all of witch are rouge-only:

New feats-

Through the cracks-
Good at piercing armor, you throw your attacks at holes in the foe's armor.
Sneak attack 3d6

When using a piercing weapon that has a base damage of 1d3 or less to hit a flat-footed foe, you ignore up to 1/2 your level of armor bouns.

Through the scales-
Your hatred, or knowledge, of dragons is manifested through your ability to slip attacks through their scales.

Sneak attack 1d6 or favored enemy (dragon), 5 ranks in knowledge (arcana) and heal.
When using a piercing weapon that has a base damage of 1d3 or less to hit a flat-footed dragon, you ignore up to your level of natural armor bonus. When used on other scaled creatures, you ignore up to 1/2 your level of natural armor bonus.

Magical rouge-
Minor magic and major magic rouge talents.
Your spell like ability from minor magic becomes at will, and you gain 3 extra uses of your major magic rouge talent. Choose one second level wizard spell. You can cast this spell twice a day.
These spells can be changed to scaling off of wis or cha after taking this feat.

one more, somewhat long, feat.:

Resourceful magic rouge
Magical rouge, 5 ranks in craft (alchemy), 5 ranks in spellcraft, 5 ranks in knowledge (arcana).
You may have limited magic power, but you make very good use of it. You can make items that hold your magic power, and use it in resourceful ways. Each one has a required item, witch is used in creation, and takes 1 hour of work to make. For each one of the following in existence, you have one less use of your first level spell like ability until it is used. If you have no uses left, you cannot make one. at the end of the day, you can stop magically supporting any of these items, causing it to become a non-magical object again, and restoring your daily use.

Vacuum bomb-
An empty bottle.
A bottle that, when thrown, doesn't break, instead landing in a square when you make an attack roll. This has a bit of fishing line attached to it, and when the string is pulled as a swift action, the "bomb" sucks in everything within 10 feet (reflex save DC 10+1/2 your level + your wisdom modifier.), then explodes with the air vacuumed in, knocking everything that was sucked in 5 feet away in a random direction, in addition to knocking those that can be knocked prone, prone.

Flash bomb-
A bottle of alchemist's fire.
This functions as a regular bottle of alchemists fire, save that it dazzles everyone in it's splash range for 1 minute. If the targets have the light sensitive trait, double the penalty. If they have the light blindness trait, they remain blinded for the minute instead.

Extra-burny bomb-
By spending an additional daily use of your first level spell like ability when you throw it, you can add 1d4 fire damage per two rouge levels to either the flash bomb or the vacuum bomb. This doesn't apply to slash damage on the flash bomb, and only applies to those who fail the reflex save vs the vacuum bomb when using the vacuum bomb.
Special- if your first level spell-like does elemental damage other then fire, this does that type of damage instead.

Magical weapon- you enchant a weapon to count as magic for overcoming DR. This lasts until you stop supporting the weapon with a daily use of your spell like ability. Ammunition aside from bullets enchanted with this do not break, and can always be reclaimed. This does not carry over to things shot from a weapon enchanted with this.
If your first level spell-like does elemental damage, the weapon gains 1d6 damage of that elemental type.

Do dancing weapons use your str or dex to hit or damage?

It says it uses your bab to hit, but if that's it, it's rather useless for a +4 weapon, cause' it'll never hit...

The homebrew sections of these forums far, far less active then anywhere else.

Is there any interest in homebrew?
Or is it something most people would prefer to just make themselves?

So, I've been sitting around, and eventually I came to think of converting the concept of the dark spuls 2 hexer to PF.

Hexers are exiled for thier art, for they commune with the darkest forces present in every human soul.

Hexers would always use the lowest of either int and wis or int and cha as their casting stat.

They make very good blasters.

Thier attack spells are more powerful then normal, at a few costs-
The split stat requirement mentioned above.
They cannot choose to fight defensively when casting a "staff" hex (most hexes used in normal play fall under this)
Devine foucs hexes can be cast defensively, and are even more powerful, but almost always have some sort of cost to the caster... And it's rarely as simple.... Or cheap... As gold.
Both always require a costly non-magical staff or holy symbol as a focus, the cost this focus needs to be raising as your level does. This focus qualifies as all cheaper focus components of the same type, however.
Thier most powerful spells can sweep most battlefields, but have a casting time of several rounds, during which point they can take a hit.
It's clear to most humans, even those without knowladge (arcana), when they cast, due to a distinctive hum right before the spell goes off that nearly everyone has learned to fear.

Thier spells would deal mostly untyped or bludgeoning damage.
There are very few spells they have that don't relate to directly dealing damage, but they can also prepare a small number of lower-level spells from the wizard or cleric spell lists (chosen at charecter creation)

Hexers have extraordinarily low hp, due to the rigors of their work, and only have d4 HD.

So, I have simple question...

But it's also rather annoyingly hard.

If you have a climb speed higher then your land speed, can you use it to "climb" across the ground?

Normally this isn't a thing, but it can be with elodions, by taking climb more then once.

So, I worked on this archetype a few months ago, and then forgot it.

But... Today, I looked through some old notes, and found this archetype again. Maybe it'll be of some use to some of you.

plauge bringer:

Plague bringer-

Alchemist archetype

Plague's caress- ( referred to as "contagion" as well.)
At first level, you are immune to the negative effects of carrying disease*, and diseases you have last indefinitely. You have contagion as a constant spell-like ability, but it's spell level is set to (your HD-1)/2 to a minimum of 1, with a CL equal to your level. This is an SU ability. Instead of the normal list of disease, roll randomly from diseases you have contracted. You always start play with one of two contracted diseases of your choice (see below).
This occurs on any contact- natural attacks, touch spells, unarmed strikes, or just a touch attack.
If someone strikes you with a natural attack, unarmed strike, or touch spell, they are automatically targeted by the ability.

This replaces bombs, or sneak attack if you are a vivisectionist.

Weakness to cure disease-
Disease is part of a plague bringer, and removing it is very painful indeed, sometimes lethal. Remove disease, when cast on the plague bringer, deals 1d6 damage per caster level of the caster. This doesn't remove any disease except the exceedingly rare few that harm the plague bringer.

Anatomical genius-
When taking the attack action with a one-handed or light piercing weapon, you add your ranks in heal (or knowledge (nature) if you are a vivisectionist) to your damage roll. You can deal non-lethal damage with such weapons with no penalty to your attack roll.
This replaces mutagen.

You can create anti-plague for 1/4th it's normal cost instead of 1/2, but this anti-plague only aids in preventing diseases you have. You can vaccinate a target against a disease you have, by paying 50 gold to make a vaccine- the target is completely immune to the disease in question two days after using the vaccine, but takes a -2 to saves vs that disease for those two days. Some diseases cannot be effectively vaccinated against, noted with a "(NV)"near them. Others, the vaccine is temporary, with the ailment changing after a while (noted by "(TV)" near the disease) - every month, the vaccine has a 25% chance of becoming obsolete.
This replaces throw anything.

Mutate disease-
At 4th level, a plague bringer may alter a disease they have in one of the ways listed in mutations. This change is permanent and affects one disease of your choice. At 6th level, and every 2 levels thereafter, you can mutate a disease again.

This replaces the discovery gained at 4th level.

Plague breath-
At 8th level, a plague bringer gains a breath weapon. Thai breath weapon can be used every 1d4 rounds, and spreads in a 30ft cone. All within the cone must make a save as if touched by the plague bringer's plague's caress. This excludes all non-airborne diseases from affecting the target- make a roll table using only airborne viruses contracted. Roll separately for each victim.

This replaces the discovery gained at 8th level.
Greater mutate disease-
At 10th level, you gain access to another list of mutations you can use (see advanced mutations)
This replaces poison immunity.

*mummy rot, as a curse, bypasses this. You can still pass it like any other contracted disease, but you suffer from it. If remove curse is cast on you, the disease ends without need of remove disease.
In addition, some diseases are just too much for the plague bringer, namely blight-burn sickness, witch ignores his Normal immunity and can't be transmitted though his contagion ability.

The diseases you can choose from are-

Flu (TV)-
Onset- 1d2 days.
Effect- exhausted for 2 days. Saves failed from the flu while exhausted by it extend the naueated effect for one day, and does 1 point of con damage that will not heal normally until the flu ends.

Cold (NV)-
Onset 1d2 days
Effect- sickened for 2 days. Saves failed from the cold while sickened by it extend the sickened effect for one day. If this persists for 3 days, every day thereafter the victim takes 1 point of con damage that doesn't heal until the cold ends.
Special- the cold gains a +5 to it's save DC vs initial contraction.

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Beware of elven bards!
They may very well have the WBL of a 20th level charecter!

What, that doesn't make sense?


With a +20 preform check, 350 days worked a year, average gold made a year is...

3675 a year.

Work for 10 years, and you now have an 8th level pc's wealth.

An elf doing this for 100 years at 200 days a year-

30k less then a 15th level charecter.

300 days a year, exactly a 16th level charecter.

At 200 years and 300 days a year, he has 60k less wealth then a 20th level charecter.

A elven bard can have a +20 to preform once a day by 3rd level-

+3 skill focus, +2 prodigy, +4 inner beauty, +3 class, +3 rank, +3 cha, +2 masterwork instrument.

Lets tone it down, and cut out the feats, still assuming take 10.
Now he gets
1050 gold a year. After 10 years, he has 10500 gold, or 2 levels above where he's supposed to be.

Take a average lifestyle and subtract 1200 a year, for a total of-
9300 gp.

Or, at first level, take one of those feats and have the same amount over the same amount of time.

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Can a charger animal companion fly in heavy or medium armor?

At 3rd level, a charger's armor check penalty for wearing barding or for carrying a medium load is reduced by 1 and the maximum Dexterity bonus for its armor and load increases by 1. Reduce the armor check and medium load penalties by an additional 1 for every 6 levels after 3rd; increase the maximum Dexterity bonus for the charger's armor by an additional 1 for every 6 levels after 3rd. In addition, the charger's speed does not decrease when wearing medium armor or carrying a medium load.

At 9th level, a charger can move at normal speed in heavy armor or while carrying a heavy load.

This ability replaces evasion and Multiattack.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

so, everyone except Maximo finds themselves in the lobby of the torchbearers, waiting for thier turn at an interview, surrounded by other potential applicants, who wind up looking at the dragon in the room more often then not. A woman runs into the room, beat high heavily, obviously panicked, and the other applicants glance among themselves.

Maximo, i have plans for how to get you in. Just give it a bit.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

Welcome to the descussion thread.

M Extrodinaraly Contrary Meatbag Fourm pyromancer 1

Feel free to dot, but please delete dot posts after you post.

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