High Powered Way of the Wicked

Game Master Diamondust

If you were keen to play and just missed out on the most recent recruitment from Black Dow, this could be your second chance.

I'll do a full recruitment post if enough want. But first some ideas. I like a high powered campaign and was thinking of several extra rules and mechanics we could use. One or more could be used, probably not all together though. All the usual offenders are up for discussion.

Feats every level up, elephant in the park: I usually always run this in my games.

Mythic: Through a number of infernal rituals and goals. Mitra has been handing out mythic power to his devout followers. Asmodeus wants to even the playing field. Defeating a mythic enemy and stealing/corrupting their power could get the PCs powered up at level 3 before the Cardinal sends them off.

Gestalt: The usual, straight forward. I will give this to some specific enemies as well when appropriate. This could be a full or partial inclusion.

Templates: Styled the same as vampire and lich in the app, so either feat or wealth investment or both. I would give more options than those two, but would remove ability score bonuses to stop it being too crazy. Half-Fiend, Graveknight...

3PP: I would consider this but am not too familiar with much besides Path of War or Spheres of Power, but don't be discourages to tell me your ideas.

O yes please.
I have run games at this level, this is the kind of set up I like.

With high level, 12 is a great level to start at, not yet Epic, room to grow.

ABP is always good
Automatic Bonus Progression

Helps with the balance, and lets players know they have to make a balanced PCs.

LEADERSHIP
BAN Leadership, Having max out mades with 2 or 3 cohorts at are level 15, 14 and 12 means one PC army, and again unbalanced.

MYTHIC
In my view 1 to 3 is good starting point, you can forgo giving normal levels and hand out new Mythic ones in place.

Spheres of Power + Psionics and Magic transparency
I would add Psionics to Spheres of Power, as they complement well.

Templates:
I would have Templates hit BOTH sides of the Gestalt, And limit Template CR to +1 stops the undead Mega mages and Half/Dragon/Devil/Angel combat beasts, that one hit kills wonder.
** I have in place of Templates have used Race Builder Giving 41 race points and saying "Have at it" dear players.

Crafting: Well its Way of the Wicked, I think fixes most problems.

Well that is my 2 cents worth

Declaring interest!
If gestalt, I would probably go something like Eliciter | Antipaladin. (Antipaladin with the Bloodmaven Path of War archetype)

- For Mythic, keeping it low-tier for much of the campaign is a good idea; otherwise I imagine you may have to rewrite the whole campaign.

- Curated templates via chains of feats sound nice. If you give out more feats, they will be more accessible, so indeed their power should be curtailed.

- For 3PP, I think getting Spheres of Power and Path of War is already fantastic: the DM has to be familiar with the 3PP rules or they get overwhelmed in my experience. Spheres of Might and Guile are very nice too, but your comfort level comes first.

Overall, if I had to rank the options, I'd go:
3PP (SoP and PoW) > Gestalt > extra feats > Mythic > templates. For instance getting the first 3 would already be crazy good.

@Lady Zal: WotW starts at low levels (PCs start in jail), so definitely not level 12, FYI. I've seen some DMs start it at level 3 (to avoid the "die instantly" issue of level 1), but level 1 is what is in the book, and the most common, and what Infernal Narrator implies they would do.

I'd agree with banning Leadership, except I think the module offers it as an option (for the evil overlord feel). But cohorts should have their own agenda (hence be piloted in part by the DM), and not be buffing cohorts/crafting cohorts that are just there to make the PC more powerful.

@namo
For A PC was thinking LE Elan, Investigator / Psion {Telepath}, cus its a nice combo. Level 3, Yep that would work and the start is level 1, that would limit templates to CR1s as well. But one once side of the Gestalt, so template 1 side and class the others. Leadership is always tricky, but if start at 1 to 3 level then no worries until L8ish. Unless someone finds a way to get Leadership at level 1. We would also be Mythic one if we start mythic.

I’m interested in all of those options (in any combination. Except the Spheres stuff mentioned later, never learned that system). I was definitely thinking that it’s a shame there’s no feat chain for graveknight built into WotW.

Thanks for your ideas guys.

Yes I am pretty ok with dreamscarred press stuff if you are keen to use that, would be an easy approval, magic transparency is a good idea, it's just sensible. For other 3PP i can find rules on spheres and PoW the easiest.

We will start at level 1 for the Branderscar jailbreak, I have also considered narrating the Branderscar escape sort of as a quick cinematic if everyone has played it already and we could properly start at level 2 after the escape. Depends on players experience with this AP. Players might want to play the escape.

If I do mythic it would be gained when you get to level 3 maybe with you completing a special ritual I am cooking up (will happen regardless if we use mythic or not).

I like leadership for non-combat purposes. Not for adding bodies to combat, so if it isn't used that way then i'm ok with it. I think it's awesome roleplay to have a network of followers gathering intel, etc. But there is also another option already baked into the AP which lets you recruit followers even without leadership, who can do similar things for you.

Oh I forgot about ABP, I am a fan of it so we will likely use it.

I like templates but the big ability bonuses on some of them are a lot I feel so removing that will help. A graveknight would probably be similar to the Lich, costing gold to make their armour, binding your soul to it and sealing it with a bunch of dead good guys as a sacrifice. You can also get something like Mortal Visage feat to be able to blend in during non combat portions. Other templates would get a similar treatment. By level 9-11 is when their full power would show up.

I definitely prefer skipping the escape. So many games never make it much past that and it skews character choices away from people who work best fully equipped.

I like all of the options put forth.

I've played in a game using the race builder instead of templates, and that is fun. But I also like templates.

If you go mythic, I'd have us earn it through the campaign and keep the tier low. High level mythic usually leads to combos that require special GM builds to avoid simply triggering.

Agreed Philo, Mythic in game is cool, also yes skip the Jailbreak, I think just about everyone applying for this would have done or tried to do it a least once. I have twice.

Ye I like race builder over templates, GM it was save you nuffing Templates. Your call.

So starting at level two, interesting, 100% going Psion, they are just too much fun to play.

So thinking
Lawful Evil - Advanced-Elan-Psion-Telepath-Investigator
A Built Weapon for war, and when there is no war...
IMAGE HERE

It all sounds good, Infernal Narrator! :-D

I've never played through the escape, so I wouldn't mind it, but I'd follow the majority's vote on it, no problem.

The race builder can be fun, but personally that's not the kind of bells and whistles I'm most interested in. Its balance is also haphazard; but e.g. banning all attribute increases beyond the standard +2 or +2/+2/-2 as well as the static feats and at-will SLA could already do a lot of work: then more flavourful options can come to the fore.

I've never played the jailbreak, but you're right that a concept like "heavily-armored hellknight wannabe-graveknight" does seem tough to play in a jailbreak. If everyone else wants to skip I'm down to skip.

Firstly, absolutely heckin interested!

Secondly, I've played through the jailbreak several times(probably close to a dozen at this point), so am okay with skipping it.

As somebody who has ran a few of these games with similar rules, some suggestions:

1) If you decide to make use of mythic, I **highly** recommend using at least some of the Mythic Solutions

2) I will always prefer gestalt over non.

3) Templates are tricky, because unless everybody takes them, there will be some decent discrepancy in power. Obviously, they're baked into the game, so I'm not sayin disallow them entirely. However, you should think of ways to help make up the power differentials for anybody who doesn't take them. Idk if the AP deals with that at all(never got to point in the adventure).

4) Regarding 3pp, big fan, but make sure you're comfortable with all the various secondary systems you intend to allow. Builds can quickly get out of hand, so be wary. Both of which I can provide links to.

Personally, unsure if I'll make use of PoW or Spheres, but I do like the Legendary version of classes or classes from Orphaned Bookworm Productions.

3) Templates are tricky, because unless everybody takes them, there will be some decent discrepancy in power. Obviously, they're baked into the game, so I'm not sayin disallow them entirely. However, you should think of ways to help make up the power differentials for anybody who doesn't take them. Idk if the AP deals with that at all(never got to point in the adventure).

On this, I'd say that if a template replaces class levels rather than just coming in on top, it's easier to keep people at least within a a CR of each other. Even for +2 templates, like Lich, Vampire, Graveknight, or half-dragon, you could have the player take the [url=https://aonprd.com/MonsterTemplates.aspx?ItemName=Degenerate]Degenerate (CR -1)Template) at the same time, so they only bump up +1 total (representing, presumable, that they're a weaker version of the creature as they grow into its abilities). Then next level up, you remove the Degenerate, now they've mastered their new form.

4) Regarding 3pp, big fan, but make sure you're comfortable with all the various secondary systems you intend to allow. Builds can quickly get out of hand, so be wary. Both of which I can provide links to.

Personally, unsure if I'll make use of PoW or Spheres, but I do like the Legendary version of classes or classes from Orphaned Bookworm Productions.

I find that this is especially true when combining disparate 3pp systems from differet publishers. Might be good to limit the actual system changes to one company, while allowing 'off the shelf' classes, races, archetypes, feats, spells, whatever, from multiple ones.

As Infernal Narrator said If we are starting at 2ed or even 3ed level, a lot of problems will not start until higher levels.

With Feats Vs Templates Vs race builder. feats is the least work, I like templates just know how they can be abused. Sticking with core races, I like race builder but it can have the same problem.

Interested.

I think a cinematic style jailbreak scene is what I will do, so over several posts I will narrate it with players able to add a little personal touch as well. You will leave Branderscar Prison in flames. This will mean a level 2 start after the cinematic.

To reduce issues with 3PP stuff, I think limiting crossover between different 3PP should be done. No spheres AND path of war, just one or the other. Can still mix it with the paizo classes though, or 3PP archetypes over paizo classes or whatever.

Mythic solutions is what I was looking for, definitely helps.

Gestalt from level 1, mythic tier at lvl 3, capping at 5 by the last book. Might be best to leave templates or race building out of it for now. If we can manage everything else well enough it could be something I add in later but that is a big if.

To reduce issues with 3PP stuff, I think limiting crossover between different 3PP should be done. No spheres AND path of war, just one or the other. Can still mix it with the paizo classes though, or 3PP archetypes over paizo classes or whatever.

I think that's a good call, no templates and Race builder. With picking just one 3pp source and feats I think there is still a lot of scope.

On that vain, what was you feeling on the Legendary CLasses,
I'm not taking one but it was raised as a question.

So an LE Elan-Psion-Investigator, L2/L2

I use narrative montages all the time when I GM in person. (and yes, I play a clip of the South Park song.) It still keeps the passage of time, lets people actually show off how cool they are, and doesn't waste time playing out a random combat that doesn't mean anything to the overall story.