New to Cleric


Advice


I decided to play a cleric in The Emerald Spire. I try to scour every bit of info before I build a character, and decided to go with a popular bad touch cleric build called Bobo! (Sorry, don't know how to hyper link here.)
He looks great on paper, but in reality he seems too specialized, and I have trouble landing touch spells after hitting, SR and saving throws/resistances. I am leaving a spell slot open at each lvl, which I seldom need, as we seem to get through 3-4 encounters a night. I did use Communal Airwalk, to get our party over a glorified jacuzzi, but it just didn't seem exciting. Am I doing something wrong?

Even though I read "How to play a cleric and not hate it," I still hate it. I have looked at builds like reach cleric, and melee damage clerics but none of them look that interesting.
What am I missing regarding clerics? Thanks!


At first blush, my guess would be "maybe cleric just isn't for you". No player has to love every class.

Mechanically, it seems like your spell selection might be suffering. Without the link, I'm not computer/search savvy enough to see the build you're referencing. There are others here who will have greater mechanical expertise. However, generally when choosing spells, you're looking for Attack (preferably ranged but definitely vs. touch AC), OR saving throw. In either case hopefully with no SR applying. I know that's not always possible, and if you're choosing for flavor, theme, or awesome potential, more power to you. Usually though, your spells should only have one or two hurdles to overcome, not all three.

As far as loving clerics or not, since you don't seem to mind research, look at the class thoroughly. You can use the build as a guide, but look for features, archetypes, deities, domains, and spells that appeal to you. You can have the most optimal or "cool" build in the world, but if you're not excited about it, playing it will still suck. Assuming you can find something to get excited about, start nudging your character in that direction.

On the open spell slots, I'm guessing the Air Walk failed to excite because the "glorified jacuzzi" obstacle wasn't that daunting, wasn't well presented (even a good GM can have a bad encounter/night), or there were other ways to handle the problem. Folks have often (rightly IMO) pointed out that coming up with the right spell for every occasion is often the most boring way to play. Try to let other characters skills and features overcome a challenge, before you immediately pray for the right spell. The moment when the spells can shine is when all other options seem spent or closed off and the pressure is on.

I know that can be a bit tricky when spell prep takes time, but the dramatic tension is on the GM (and the rest of the group to an extent). Alternatively, hunt for spells that get around the challenge is more creative ways. Assuming the water wasn't going to actually boil you, you might have chosen some kind of water breathing/gill giving/fish polymorphing spell instead. A lot of this comes to experience with the class and play style, but if you still want to give the cleric a shot, you aren't "doomed". :p


Clerics don't have a lot of really cool spells until high levels. Emerald Spire really doesn't get you to the "fun levels" of Cleric. However, there are quite a few fun ways to play a cleric. My favorite was the Undead Lord Build.


What other classes have you played?

Which did you enjoy?

Which did you NOT enjoy?


Or outside of classes, what kind of enterprise did you enjoy having your character undertake?

Grand Lodge

Which deity did you choose? There are a lot of borring ones.
Pick a fun one (in your opinion) over a powerful domain every time!


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*Khan* wrote:

Which deity did you choose? There are a lot of borring ones.

Pick a fun one (in your opinion) over a powerful domain every time!

Actually another part of this is picking a deity who's relevant to the campaign. There are some great, flavourful deities who just never get any attention in APs, and as a result will probably be less fun than the core deities. Not because the gods themselves are less fun, or even the abilities they give you, but more because you'll never interact with the church of Ra in the average game. Sarenrae and Torag may not be that exciting, but there will be encounters written into APs that will change if you're a member of the clergy (Desna is the one that seems to show up the most in my experience, but that might just be me).

You can always talk to your GM about this as well. If there's an encounter with some Sarenrae followers the GM could easily change them to be Ra followers and then that encounter is a bit more personal for you.


I just found a comprehensive spell guide, and I found some good additions.
My build focuses on Necro spells (which there aren't a lot of). Bestow Curse is a good one, but it requires every hurdle possible to stick. Madness domain has some great abilities too.

If I were to build a new cleric, I think I would build melee based one with Divine Favor/Power, some communal buffs and debuffs, and the rest utility. I wouldn't even need a lot of wis.


If you're going that way I'd probably recommend Warpriest over Cleric. You get scaling damage (which is good if you're using some weapons), bonus feats and swift action heals. Most importantly you can buff yourself as a swift action, which means you get into the fray faster. As a final bonus you don't need CHA for anything, so you're a little less MAD.

I'll stress that Clerics are still very good at walking into melee and headbutting everything into submission, but they tend to take longer to get ready for a fight because their buff spells eat their standard actions (hence the prevalence of reach Clerics). If you want to stay a Cleric then by all means go for it, you should still be very good at your job provided you plan a bit.

Also as far as buffs go, I wouldn't cast more than 1 buff in combat before wading in. It's very rare that buffing for 2-3 rounds actually ends up being better than 1 buff and 1-2 extra rounds of attacks. Any long term buffs you can throw up before combat, or swift-action buffs you can throw up without wasting a round are going to be more valuable to you.


Lots of folks talk about the buffing power of clerics. They're good at self-buffing but I'd second Mr Char there upthread - Warpriest does a better job at this. Remember that a self-buffing cleric, before their actual buffs, are a 3/4 BAB chassis with no accuracy of damage boosters baked into the class. At least, vanilla cleric; I don't know the archetypes all that well.

The vanilla cleric focusing on spells in melee may work better as a damage and threat reducer. I'm not advocating healing in combat; that way lies madness. No, I'm thinking of cleric-as-defense.

Your spells often buff others' defenses, such as AC, Deflection bonuses, and saves. At level 3 you've got the typical physical buffs (minus Cat's Grace ironically) but for the most part your ability to buff others stems from your ability to keep them from taking damage or suffering negative Conditions.

That's another area - Condition mitigation. Clerics (like other full Divine casters) do a bang-up job of keeping negative Conditions from taking full effect on themselves and comrades. If you have a party like one from my games where you've got one big front liner and three ranged support types, and then that bardbarian fails a save for Blindness, the fight can end poorly for the whole party. One cleric, at hand with Remove Blindness changes that outcome with a single spell.

Now lots of spells on the Cleric list also cause enemies to make a Fort or Will save (SR applies) or suffer some consequence such as damage, domination of some kind or another, a curse and so on. Thing is, you've got to burrow through the enemy's defenses to get these to stick. Again, clerics have nothing in the actual vanilla class to boost their ability to carve through enemy defenses - no free feats, no class abilities, and so on. Some Domain powers can weaken an enemy, but these require a hit roll themselves and are just as limited a resource as the vanilla cleric's spell slots.

So again, the spells on the cleric list that buff others besides themselves are mostly focused on defense and damage/Condition mitigation. It's not the sexiest life, but this is what a vanilla cleric is usually pretty good at: getting close to the front line without being cut down (Light and Medium armor, decent Fort and Will saves), putting buffs on their friends to keep them up in the fight and being a force multiplier through Flanking or other strategic positioning.

For me personally, I think the one part of being a cleric that often goes overlooked is as an Intimidate build. The class doesn't get the skill as a Class skill; you'll have to pick it up through a Trait. Still, once acquired, think about it: Cha is useful in channeling, or, if you go the Str to Intimidate route Str is ALWAYS useful. Then look at the cleric's low-level spells; they get an Orison, a level 1, level 2 and level 3 spell that all enhance this skill or the relevant stat.

A vanilla cleric actually has a lot of utility in social situations. Again, MANY classes probably do this better, but this is another strength of the base class. Diplomacy is a Class skill; Cha is relevant to one class ability; several spells around languages, communication, and calming down enemies enough so that Diplomacy can be attempted. Clerics are good at defusing fights before they begin.

Finally... summoning. Yes, these spells take a full round action to use. However, a tanking cleric can manage a decent AC and build around doing well on Concentration checks. Once summoned, many creatures called can gain a Celestial or Profane aspect. These creatures often understand that language.

Any summoner cleric then, skilled in the language (Linguistics is also a Class skill for this class) that gets monsters for more than 1 round can communicate with and thus direct the efforts of any creatures they summon. This can also be a way to go as a cleric, littering combats with extra flankers, multiple attacks, etc.

Or, y'know... just go Evil and have hordes of undead at your disposal.


Clerics are as boring as they are useful. One way I like to spice them up is taking 5 levels of the Divine Paragon archetype, then 10 levels of the Evangelist prestige class. Pick a fully fleshed out deity and receive six of their boons! That usually gives you something to work with...

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