GM Doug's The Lost Legend (Inactive)

Game Master Doug Hahn

Boons

Anticipate around 1 hour until able to focus on boons and school items.

Faction: Radiant Oath Champion
Advance: None
#1: Practiced Medic (downtime)
#2: Sand Slide
#3: Hireling (Survival +5, Snake Lore +5)

School Items
1. Potion of Water Breathing
2. Lesser Antidote

Gold Purchases
-3 gp
+1 Lesser Antidote

Fame Purchases
-4 Fame
Hireling (Survival, Snake Lore)

Faction: Envoy's Alliance
Promotional: Campaign Coin
:1. Sand Slide
2. Expert Hireling
3. Eager Protege

School Items
1. Potion of Water Breathing
2. Lesser Antidote

Fame Purchases
-10 Expert Hireling -- Survival, Mwangi Lore +7
-4 Eager Protege

Although I am getting by with Bardic Lore, eventually I am going to need someone who can use Survival.

Side note: I'll probably group like enemies in the next combats if we do well here. I'm always a tad hesitant to do that in 2e, and there are extra enemies with the challenge points in this case.

Grouping can be rough in 2e. If you roll well, the bad guys have a tactical advantage To quantify it, say 4 enemies have a 50% chance of going first, there’s only a 6.125% chance they all go first if they roll individually but a 50% chance if they roll once. The opposite as well for all going last. Getting exact numbers for more realistic hypotheticals is too hard on my phone. :)

Given the realities of play by post, I think grouping combined with ample GM discretion is a good solution. Probabilities aren’t as important if the GM tries to strike a balance.

Packet’s boons:

Vigilant Seal (Faction)
Team Player
Cryptid Scholar

Pathfinder items:
Potion of water breathing
Feather Step Stone

I also bought two level one scrolls: Invisible Item and Soothe

Moving my daughter today. Please feel free to bot me as needed.

Thanks for letting us know! Good luck on the move.

The lingering composition DC is the standard DC of the highest level target. Tanio is level 6, so this means Pip's DC is 22.

Ow! Not likely for me to pull off in this adventure, then.

Hmm

PS On the other hand... If it is a free action, there's no reason not to try.

:(

The value of lingering is correlated by the party members' levels, to a degree.

I think a DC 22 is worthwhile to try and succeed at as a free action, but not likely crit succeed. If there's some good filk or lyrics happening, of course I'd add in a circumstance bonus!

There was no filk today. I barely got my post in! I had to move my daughter into an apartment on the third floor. So much furniture!

I'll try to come up with one later. Also, I need to find a different diamond to indicate that it's a FREE action. I saw the diamond shape, and totally missed that it was blank!

You deserve a real-life hero point for moving! I helped a friend move on Monday and am still sore.

So does Gurmire, who helped for the first half of the move, being an angel and bringing an extra car so we could do fewer trips!

One thing I hated about moving during Covid is how hot masks get when you work out. I don't mind wearing the mask most of the time, but wearing it as you haul stuff sucks, and we had to do so because she was moving into an apartment building, and there were other tenants around.

Sigh... someone offered to shake hands. Who does that THESE DAYS? I kindly explained that we couldn't but offered them a smile and virtual hugs instead.

Oh and SPEAKING of legends... Did you see today's blog on Lost Omens Legends? Both Kate and Dennis got mentioned, along with other authors you might know.

:)

Hmm

If I had know who wrote Atorkus at the time of GenCon, I might have bid on that lesson... ;)

Awww, thank you! I wanted to bid on it, but it was already 300 dollars when I first peeked at it.

I still haven't found out who won my letter of recommendation from Tukalo. I'm looking forward to writing that one.

Wow, so cool. Thanks for the heads up!

Making the initiative block a bit less verbose. I think we all have a handle on the mechanics by now.

Quick correction on our status. Gurmire also drank the brew that is true.

To help grouping, this round Gurmire will delay to group him with Pip.

Done and done!

I'll bunch some of the enemies next time too. The adjustment from 10 to 16 challenge points just piles on the enemies, and I worried a bit with the level 3's here.

We're still doing good on time anyway and you all are keeping up and posting often — thanks.

I have been talking with Tanio and Packet in private, as well as some other VOs about Investigator abilities.

There is some subjectivity about what qualifies for the subject of a lead and what does not. (Pursue a Lead). This is important because if the investigator knows that a creature is the subject of their lead, they can Devise a strategem against that lead as a free action as well as use feats like Known Weakness as part of that free action.

The grey area here is whether Pursuing a Lead can be applied to a whole group of creatures (for example, "I'm investigating a cult") and whether all members of that group (for example, "all cult members") count as the subjects of your lead.

The text of Pursue a lead allows for a certain degree of interpretation, but I believe the intention of the ability is that it should almost always be a single creature, not a group of creatures or a type of creature.

This subject is typically a single creature, item, or small location (such as a room or corridor), but the GM might allow a different scope for your investigation. You don’t need to know the identity, purpose, or nature of the subject, but you do need to be aware of its existence. For instance, finding a footprint is enough to investigate the creature that left it, and seeing a hasty sketch of an item or location can be enough to start your investigation of that subject.

I do not believe in changing the rules of the game on players mid-combat, so we're going to roll with it as-is for now and all the boggards you're fighting can be the subjects of Tanio's lead (he was investigating a talisman you found ahead of time). This means he can continue using free-action Devise a Strategems and such.

However, after this encounter, I am going to change my ruling and say that only the single creature who left the clue, or the leader of the group being investigated, would qualify as the subject of a lead.

For example, if you are investigating a cult and found a footprint at a crime scene your lead might be either the cult leader (the person ultimately responsible for the crime), or the creature who left the footprint (a forensic match!) — but not all members of the whole cult.

Hopefully, this makes sense. The investigator is a new class and has presented us with a good learning moment. I appreciate a chance to refine my thoughts in the slower PbP environment and my players' patience.

This is a set of abilities that might be subject to the always-dreaded table variation (as the text of Pursue a Lead says "typically," not "always"), so it's always good to discuss OOC. Anyway, I wanted to be up-front with the whole table about an evolving rules interpretation that may affect later rulings.

I'm betting their HP wasn't 35, but I forgot the extra +1 damage from IC.

Thanks. The boggard is still up with 35, and the statblock is updated!

Reading the Aquatic Combat rules, I can’t see anything that interferes with throwing most Alchemical Bombs. There are some that don’t work, but I see nothing that interferes with throwing a Bottled Lightning (electric) or Thunderstone (Sonic) bomb.

In older editions the line from surface to beneath water was a barrier. Now they are defining it by attack damage type and don’t seem to have a catch-all for other ranged attacks.

Am I missing anything? I was really expecting there to be something that interfered more with my alchemical bombs.

That looks like a situation they neglected to cover.

Ranged attacks that deal bludgeoning or slashing damage automatically miss if the attacker or target is underwater, and piercing ranged attacks made by an underwater creature or against an underwater target have their range increments halved.

So what about ranged attacks that aren't B, S, or P or aren't spells? They made alchemists a core class, it should have been on their minds, right?

Hmmm. I just looked through the CRB to see if AoN had missed anything.

Seems like they work normally to me — bombs away!

Doesn't it say...?

The surface of all water has a special transformation effect, turning bombs into depth charges.

Wouldn’t yellow take splash damage as well?

I'm on mobile until later today and wasn't looking at the map. Looks like it. I edited the post, thanks!

Tanio — this counts for your +1 bonus on the lead. I'm not sure if the survival check you rolled above my post was in anticipation of the travel check; if so, then I am happy to count it as a success.

Tanio — this counts for your +1 bonus on the lead. I'm not sure if the survival check you rolled above my post was in anticipation of the travel check; if so, then I am happy to count it as a success.

Yessir! Just wanted to post an action of some kind that moved things along.

Cool. Thanks for keeping it moving!

Also Gurmire gets a hero point for so handily disarming that horrible trap. (crit!)

I've hinted at it but you will lose bundles unless you do above average on these exploration travel checks.

Up to you to use hero points or not. Several of you have 2 each. You also know whether you fail or not before deciding to use the point.

Had a discussion with Doug about exploration activities like Perception and Investigate. Some of them have baked into the rules that they require half movement speed. In this scenario, there's apparently a bit of a speed threshold for getting treasure bundles, so Exploration Mode actions that reduce speed could also impact treasure.

It doesn't matter much to Tanio, since I'm replaying for no credit. But you others probably care!

GMing on roll20 tonight so I won't be able to update you on progress until later tonight.

If someone has detect magic they can make a DC 20 arcana/occultism. I looked at your sheets and didn't see it anywhere.

I didn’t think the spell Detect Magic worked like that anymore.

From the spell:
You send out a pulse that registers the presence of magic. You receive no information beyond the presence or absence of magic.

I would think Read Aura is what we would need.

Hey folks. My sense is that there are some concerns about the impact on difficulty that the current level spread creates.

Given that I'm not playing for credit, I suggested to Doug that I could withdraw to avoid any unwanted bloodshed or delay in advance of a convention deadline.

I'm gonna go ahead and do that.

The situation reminds me a bit of those episodes of Project Runway, where the winner of last week's challenge has immunity, and is paired with someone for whom the week's challenge is actually high stakes. And then if the vulnerable teammate loses, the person with immunity feels TERRIBLE.

The whole point of joining the game for no credit was to get to enjoy some fun times with you all — GM Doug speaks highly of you all, and your awesome roleplay thus far makes me see why. But we'll have other opportunities to play together, and I'd prefer it be under circumstances where we're all able to enjoy fully that time together.

For my part, I really value direct communication about concerns like this. I want to hear from you if you're not having fun, so we can build solid community with each other long term!

GM Doug H wrote:

If someone has detect magic they can make a DC 20 arcana/occultism. I looked at your sheets and didn't see it anywhere.

I didn’t think the spell Detect Magic worked like that anymore.

From the spell:
You send out a pulse that registers the presence of magic. You receive no information beyond the presence or absence of magic.

I would think Read Aura is what we would need.

The scenario as-written specifies detect magic as the only way to unlock that arcana/occultism. (I agree with you on how it should work, but the scenario is clear about this special circumstance. Success on this check merely illuminates a small detail about the setting, so I am inclined to leave it as-written since it's not taking away any treasure or advantage you'd otherwise have!)

★★★

Tanio — thanks for being so understanding and being so communicative! I truly appreciate you stepping up to play for no credit when we were looking for a 4th, and I always enjoy spending time with you in these games and all the others we play here in SF!

I'll move us on a bit later today and adjust accordingly. Busy day at work!

@Tanio: The thought occurred to me but hadn't seemed to be an issue. I probably would have gotten secretly cranky if, in the middle of some final battle, a wizard was tossing around 12d6 AOEs with DC 27 saves. So thank you for proactively sparing us that possibility.

Re: Detect Magic/Read Aura - I don't think either spell works the way an adventurer needs it to. Detect magic tells you there's new magic somewhere in a 30 ft radius. Read aura tells you what's magic about a specific thing. So if you're in a big open area with lots of ruins and hidden places, neither spell tells you where the magic thing is. Consequently, you've got to perform geometry with your detect magic or read aura *every* single object around.

Not that that pertained to the specific question, just an observation I've made.

@Tanio,

Thank you for being so understanding. It has been my experience so far that PF2 is much less tolerate of a level spread than Starfinder or PF1. With level feeding into everything the higher level character gets hit and crit less, hits and crits more, and just overall has an advantage even if their class isn’t necessarily the best at something.

I’ve hit this playing my Rogue, where I explained to a fighter that they might want me in front because my AC and hit points were better than theirs. I did tell the fighter that I was depending on them to bring the damage.

It is a style shift that I am still adjusting to.

There is also the problem that I don’t think the challenge points do a good job of dealing with the case where most of the points are from one character. Take that one character out with an unlucky save or lucky hit and the rest of the group struggles. If that character doesn’t take front line, whoever is there gets pounded a lot harder.

That said, I hope to play along side you sometime in the future.

——

@GM Doug,

Thanks for the explanation! I can accept the scenario says so.

I admit that I am a little miffed since it was I who pointed out to Hilary the differences between Detect Magic and Read Aura.

When building characters, I’ve been using Detect Magic as a good way to get initiative off the character’s magic skill more than anything. It does help the group find things, but reading the rules it really seemed to me that Read Aura would be the more important Cantrip for analyzing magical objects.

Guess I will have to watch this over several scenarios, see what the expectations of the authors are.

I edited my post as Pip has read aura too. I'll give it to both Packet and Pip. On further consideration, I suspect if the author had the same understanding we do they would have allowed read aura. And you deserve it as two of you have prepped the spell.

I agree with you about the Read Aura. In this case, I wonder if an author just has an assumption that certain spells work as they did in 1E. I wouldn't blame them; I did too for quite a while (and probably still do about some spells).

Question was asked of if I had an action left after caus8ng one of the arrowhawks to burst into flame and disappear.

As I count it, he used up all his actions.

One action to draw the Bomb.
One action to strike with it.
One action to recall knowledge.
Free action to marvel at the fireworks as the arrowhawk combusts. :)

@Tanio --

Thank you for being so understanding, and I hope we'll be able to play together in something else!

Hmm

I do hope that those who were concerned will consider sharing your them openly in the future. It doesn't feel very good to have concerns funneled through the GM. I imagine he doesn't feel good about having to mediate, either.

Your concerns were totally valid. While it's possible that I could have been a jerk about it, I'd like to hope that Society can discuss such matters as community members together.

I brought up ChP concerns in private to you, Tanio, to avoid friction and because we're real-life friends, and achieve a smooth transition in this game. The fact that Tanio is valued at over 1/3 of the ChP here was concerning from an objective standpoint, compounded with the replay for no credit. There was feedback about my choice as a GM to allow that to happen. That's valid. And it isn't about you and never was. There was nothing to "funnel" through a GM.

To be clear it was my decision, as GM, to ask you to step back, not anyone else's (in fact, others disagreed with this choice). It was my choice based on concerns about the ChP and the fact you are replaying, and the concerns that others brought to the fore about my choice to allow Tanio to participate.

That's all I am going to say about it, and I am not going to allow further conversation here to derail this game. Do not post here again. If any current players have concerns, please PM me and keep the discussion thread game-focused. Thank you!

Hey Doug, I wanted to make sure you got a chance to see this, and I'm not sure how much you look at the Starfinder blogs.

My flash story, Making Waves, just got published in "Tales from the Drift!"