GM supervillan's 8-14 To Seal the Shadow (Outpost III) (Inactive)

Game Master supervillan

A Judge Judy-like gavel, perhaps, for emphasizing an argument or rendering a verdict?

Tenibri's selections are in the spreadsheet

A Judge Judy-like gavel, perhaps, for emphasizing an argument or rendering a verdict?

Hrm I like the idea of that, at least for RP when we win a debate topic at least!

Ok, I'll update Dale's spreadsheet to reflect the cognatogen CHA boost.

Brief aside for Social Duels outside this scenario

One thing I'll note for anyone who's thinking about adding Social Duels to a non PFS game. Normally you don't have to assign your best skills to a tactic, so you have a lot more freedom to define your debater.

I've had a lot of fun with these in the past - though it's definitely a perk if people know going into character creation that you'll be using them!

Gameplay update is incoming. Been occupied with family most of today :)

Please do not worry! Thanks for everything!

When we reach this part of an exchange I will accept the first post making a Counter. If you prefer to yield an exchange please post in Discussion, and I will accept a yield if two of you agree on that course of action before anybody posts a Counter in Gameplay.

It's quite possible to end the Duel before everyone gets a chance to speak, but I prefer to give you all the chance to do so if you'd like to.

Remember that the Heroes cannot concede the entire Duel and must Counter each opening - but you can yield an exchange if the wayang council Counters your Counter.

If you decide to end an exchange, you also start the next exchange with an Opening Tactic. Any Hero can make this new Opening - again, I'll accept the first Opening post in Gameplay after an agreed yield.

Is there any benefit to yielding an exchange rather than trying and hoping for a very high roll, or attempting a specific tactic even though it can't possibly win to gain favor with our spirit?

For that matter, would a nat 20 always succeed even if the result doesn't beat the previous side's roll?

Yielding will lower your Determination - you want this to get to zero to lose the duel.

BUT - lose too quickly and it may look like you are not dueling in good faith, which may have consequences.

A high roll (ie beating the current DC) will force the wayang council to either Counter again, raising the ante more, or yield and lose Determination. If they lose all their Determination they lose, you win. But you've been asked not to win of course.

For everyone to get the chance to win favour with their heroic spirits it's going to take at least 6 rolls, so the trick lies in using tactics that reduce the Ante (Flattery and Red Herring) and/or winning an exchange or two to prolong the duel.

A natural 20 is not an auto-success.

Verbal Duel Exchange 1

Wayang Council, Determination: 9
Heroes of Minata, Determination: 7

Ante: 3 the ante is raised by 1 before each skill check

Heroes Edges: 1 for Allegory or Mockery only

Any Hero may Counter, with a DC of 26. Eynemb used Allegory; alternatively you may decide to end this Exchange and lose 3 Determination. If you end this Exchange the wayang council also gains 1 Edge.

Re Heroes Edges: Is the 1 Edge for 'Allegory or Mockery Only' in addition to what a PC might have for a particular tactic/skill?

Looking at the Team matrix Sir Hayden put together, Vlazis has the best chance of success using Allegory (+12) - with 1 Edge for using one of the called out tactics.

If I've calculated the odds and probability correctly, that's about a 35% chance of success on the roll.

The 1 Edge would enable him to re-roll, if he isn't satisfied with the first result.

Yup. "Heroes' Edges" are useable by anyone, but once only.

Thanks.

Looking at the options to reduce Determination, it looks impossible for any of us to win/reduce the Ante using 'Red Herring.' Tenebri would have the best chance to win/reduce the Ante with 'Flattery' (+10), but the odds/probablility (25%) are worse than for Vlazis using 'Allegory' to hit a DC of 26.

If I've overlooked something, please let me know.

Before anybody chooses a tactic/skill check, you should consider the additional rules the GM included on the slides. Lots of additional situational modifiers associated with each tactic/skill.

May we use a once-per-scenario re-roll (for a Paizo T-shirt, Folio, etc), enabling us to add our GM stars to the result?

Standard GM/Merchandise reroll rules apply, in addition to Edge. ie you can use any number of Edge rerolls on a particular check, but only one reroll from a non-Edge source; you can use a non-Edge reroll in addition to any number of Edge rerolls.

Red Herring is Dale's mask's skill of choice, so when the time comes I'd like to make that check. I'd be willing to use it this time but against that DC we have no hope of winning. My +2 with 2 edge obviously can't hit a DC26.

So while I could make the check to appeal to my spirit, in the end we'd lose... 4 determination? Yielding straight off would lose us 3?

Thoughts?

**Edit: Using Red Herring to reduce the determination to 0 and end the exchange gets a +4 bonus. So there is a chance Dale could score a nat20 to hit the DC26 with three rolls. Damn, if only that 26 was lower!

If Flattery only reduces the ante by one, it's not really a reduction tactic; the ante goes up by 2 each cycle, so Flattery only mitigates the ante climbing, it doesn't really even make it go down. I think we probably give this one up and hope to raise the ante in another round that we can win.

I agree.

That's a Yield decision made for this exchange. Will update Gameplay in a bit.

Consider who you want to Open the next exchange.

I'm sure everyone wants a chance to attempt their circled tactic.

MIshka would be happy to attempt Presence.

Mine is for countering so no worries on needing to lead from Dale's spirit. I'll take a counter that is in the make-able range for him.

If you don’t mind I would like to start with allegory at some point.

Does the 'Last Tactic' rule's penalty only apply to counters?

The last tactic used by the wayangs was 'Allegory.'

The 'Repetition of Tactics' rule carries cumulative penalties, so we should take care not to use one another's circled tactics.

"Mocking" seems to (thematically) be more of a countering tactic than opening, but Tenibri's bonus isn't that great, so probably a first counter if possible.

The Last Tactic penalty only applies to Counters.

Unless anybody objects, Tenibri would like to take the first counter (I.e. Heroes Opening > Council Counter > Tenibri Counter). He'll be using Mockery to go for his mask synergy, and may end up using an Edge as his bonus (+2) is low.

Sounds good, Tenibri. Anyone mind if Mishka opens up the next round with the 'Presence' tactic?

Mishka's modifiers aren't that great, so we can likely anticipate a counter from the wayangs, creating an opportunity for Tenibri's own 'Mockery' counter-counter.

*EDIT*

Whoops, never mind. Looks like Dana already seized the initiative on her own.

The team has 1 Edge for Allegory or Mockery. Dana had a decent roll and didn't use the Edge.

Does that 1 Edge exist only for Dana's opening exchange, this entire 'round', or does it carry over for the rest of the verbal duel?

Your collective Edges can be used any time you use the associated tactic, but only on a roll that is using that tactic. So if any of you roll for Allegory or Mockery you can use that Edge.

Having just won an exchange, you have gained 1 Edge that can be used on any roll during the duel. In addition, Dana is now locked out of participating unless and until everyone else in the Heroes team has won 1 exchange.

Hrm, so the enemy gets to choose who they challenge and has to counter them? Do we get the same benefit? Choosing our target that is.

You do not - though you notice that Eynemb is very quick to get to his feet and speak.

I've been called in to work an issue this week. I'll still be available to post in the evenings, but feel free to coordinate on when it may be best for Hayden to respond on the duel. His mask tactic is logic, which does not suit his skills, but I'm willing to try it as an opener as it gets a +2.

If Tenibri rolls high you should reroll so that they win. :-)

Good thought Dana!

At this point I mostly see Vlazis as being benched unless we need to defuse an exchange before everyone's gotten to be their Masks - Flattery works much like Red Herring for relatively soft-hitting victories.

Looks like the only two of us left that need to satisfy our mask spirits are Hayden with a lead with Logic: Kn Local +2. And Dale can counter their rebuttal with Red Herring +2.

Sound good? And we won two exchanges and have a tight score.

Sounds great to me!

Choose your Counter!

The DC is 18; Eynemb used Mockery. Note that if you attempt a Counter the Ante is raised to 3 - so if you make an attempt and fail to hit DC18 you lose the duel (and thus succeed!).

But we still get a participation trophy, right? ;-)

Sorry guys but I'm enjoying the debate so decided to string it out one more time!

Dana Katsu wrote:

Ahhhhh!! We are supposed to loose!! :-( Take back the reroll please! If we would be at a real table this would be easier to communicate. :-/

I know we are supposed to lose, but we haven't won either. This just puts us back even.

If the group wishes me to lose then I'll drop the reroll but we can still lose on the next round easily enough as I'll have to lead off and they can counter vs my weak bonus.

Sorry guys but I'm enjoying the debate so decided to string it out one more time!

That's the Dale I know.

But it was a GREAT speech! ;-)

Loved the RP, Dale, but I think a victory drops the wayangs to 0 and they'll lose. Not our desired outcome.

That's fine, I'll withdraw the reroll. But Dale winning the rebuttal with Red Herring simply makes the ante go down to 0 and he leads off with a new tactic, keeping our present score the same to start a new round.

I certainly wouldn't intentionally make the party lose the objective in the scenario (although Dale is having a hard time trying to NOT win, especially given how the mock battle went).

Maybe you're right. I thought the ante (now 3 with your skill check, win or lose) was the amount of determination the loser of the exchange suffers. Maybe a 0 merely 'staggers' the wayangs.

The difference is in the Red Herring tactic: if you take the +4 bonus as Dale did, and you win with your roll, the ante is set to zero so the opponent loses no determination.

Then Dale is a hero after all!! :-)

So Dale it looks like enough of the party are happy for you to push for another round, but I'll leave the decision to you. Void the reroll, and lose the duel (achieving your objective thereby) or keep the reroll and force the wayangs to respond. If the wayangs respond and don't beat your roll then Ante gets set to zero and we get another Exchange with you opening; if they do beat your roll, you're free to yield (or if you want, you or another PC with a low bonus Tactic can Counter and use Edges to ensure you lose at that point).

(Since my favoriting isn't an explicit statement - I'm all in favor of the Red Herring!)

Ok, I say let the edge stand and let's see how the Wayangs react. We've still got lots of outs and the fans wanted a good show, so dammit let's give them the best show we can!

Alright!

Cool.

Wow, what a complicated set of mechanics for one 'encounter!' It would be a lot more frustrating at a F2F table at a Con with tighter time constraints. Not the first time, of course, that writers/developers have done this sort of thing in a scenario, and it has been fun.