Savage Battletech! (#1)

Game Master Atlas2112

Exactly what it says on the tin.


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I'm feeling a little verklempt.

Talk amongst yourselves. I will give you a topic.

Savage Battletech is now both savage and Battletech.

Discuss.

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Also, I should use this alias.

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So many things....

1) From now on, the Knowledge(Electronic Warfare) skill not oly the roll you use to see if missiles hit, but it is the Notice and Stealth skill while operating a BattleMech.

2) We'll be using the Auto rules for missiles, so each missile gets a roll. For a LRM 4 launch, you get to roll 4 times, plus the wild die.
Same thing for defending.

3) For mechs with Stealth, you can move half your pace and still have it in effect.

4) I'm -REALLY- wanting to get the MechWarriors involved in the Mass Combat rules. (Both because I think it'd be cool, and because I always wanted to.) Also, I never liked that initiative was mostly chance. Hence, from now on we'll be using the Knowledge (Battle!) skill as not only the skill to determine Mass Combat, but also as a dice roll to determine initiative. (Unless we're involved in an air battle--that will use Chase rules and initiative will be handled by cards as normal.)
Any feat to enhance your initiative will give you a +2 to the K(Battle!) roll.

(We'll deal with the Joker issue later.)

All PC's start with a free d4 in K(Battle!).

At d8, you get the free feat: WarMaster: Commanding an army comes naturally to you when fed the massive data from a battlemech's sensors. Making a Mass Combat roll is a free action when piloting a battlemech.

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Here is the map.

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5) It's mandatory for everyone to take the MechJock feat. (You -are- MechWarriors. =)


Dotting!

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Okay, so, Zenfox, meet Therenger.

Zenfox, I'm counting on you to help me familiarize new people in how to play SW, and while you're telling them All The Things, that will help me play off the conversation and keep talking about how things are going to be much gooderer...er.

For instance, Therenger wants to make a character, but is unsure how. Go ahead and walk him through that, and I'll keep the things on the rails.

For instance:

I see the good MechWarrior as a man for all seasons. Of course AGI is important, as that does both Piloting and Shooting, but INT will also be important, as that is needed for both Knowledge (Electronic Warfare)(which I've talked about previously) and Know(Battle!).

In case the meta-question is out there, yes, there are going to be a -lot- of missiles flying around, so you can't really ignore that and hope to not get shot by missiles.

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I'm also just talking at random about things from the Sci-Fi book for those that aren't ZenFox and haven't memorized it.

Also, I fully plan that when we do that actual campaign most of things I'm saying now I'll have listed in the Campaign tab. So this is also for my benefit. ^_^

A) AMCM Anti-Missile Counter Measures.
Almost all mechs have this. It gives you +2 to defend against hostile missile incoming. What happens is that the attacker rolls for all the missiles (explained above) and, for every K(EW) roll that is higher than a 4, the defender rolls, and they get to add +2 if they have AMCM.

While at first this seems unfair, it looks like (and I may be wrong here, so feel free to correct me) that missiles ignore all other defensive bonuses, such as speed. So the AMCM is the only thing that keeps it from being a toss up, and also motivates that character to keep that skill high.

b) Sensors.
Your sensor package has a range of 1000 yards, which is 500 inches on the table top. It gives you +4 to your K(EW) roll to spot things.

c) Targeting.
Exactly what it says. It negates 2 points of modifiers. (Hence, while it doesn't exactly gibe you +2 to hit, it does make a TN of 8 into a TN of 6.) (No, Targeting does not work for missiles. It applies to anything using the Shooting skill)

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I'll talk about Scrap at some point, but it won't come up until we get into things proper, so I'll table that for now.

Speaking of the table, for the current test I want to invoke that feeling that Mechs battle over enormous distances, so every square is 5 inches. (That gives us a 300 inch map, which, I still think is smaller than I'd druther, but it gives us a happy medium.)

Movement will be in 5-inch units, rounding to closest. (Hence, move 30 inches = 6 squares. 31 also = 6 squares. 32&33 = 6. 34,35,36,37,38 = 7. etc...)

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Well poop, gentlemen. That's about all I have on my little to-do list.

When making characters, don't go nuts. Just toss together some numbers so we can have giant robots shoot guns at other giant robots.

For the scenario all of you are students at the New Avalon MechWarrior Training Academy.

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Plaguestone ◆ Hell's Rebels (Maps/Slides) (Loot, Tracker, Rumors) ◆

Hi guys. I have no idea what I'm doing :-) I'm going to try and build a character though. Where do I start?

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Excellent!

Well, for starters I was hoping to see ZenFox on here with 25+ posts saying how awesome SW is, but he seems to be on a yacht enjoying single-malt scotch with a brace of models right now, so, if you want something done.... =)

Have I told you about this thing yet?

It provides just about everything you need to play.

Or I could just lay it all out for you!

For starts, you start with 5 Attributes: Str, AGI, INT, VIG, and SPirit. Each start at rank 'd4' and each increase takes them up a die type.
i.e. take d4 Strength and add 1 point and now you have d6 strength.

You get 5 points to add to your Attributes.

For instance, MechWarrior that you are, you could put 3 points into Agility and 2 into Intelligence, giving you:
Str: d4
AGI: d10
INT: d8
Vig: d4

Next are the skills.

Skills start out at zero, and increase in the same way. 1 pt gives you a d4, 1 more pt a d6, etc. Up to a maximum of their "linked" attribute. (Shooting is linked to Agility, all Knowledge skills are linked to Inteligence, etc). Raising a skill above it's linked attribute costs double.

We're using the "new" skill rules, so instead of getting 15 points total, you get 13 but you get a whole bunch of skills for free. (Don't know what those are right now but if ZenFox hasn't answered this question in 24 hours then nothing makes sense anymore!!1!)

But we could theorize that you might put 4 points into both Piloting and Shooting (Both are skills linked to Agility) which would give you:
Piloting: d10
Shooting: d10

Then with your remaining 5 points, you could put 3 into Knowledge(Electronic Warfare!) and 2 into Repair (because you like to make sure your mech is kept in tip-top shape!) giving you a total:

Piloting: d10
Shooting: d10
Knowledge(Electronic Warfare!): d8
Repair: d6

Lastly, as a human (everyone are humans. There are no aliens until the clans invade, and we're not there yet.) you get a free "Feat". However everyone needs to take their first feat the: "Mech Jock: While Piloting a vehicle, you may make one Attack action for free."

(SW is big into you getting one move and one action. To take more than one Action is to incur a Multiple Action Penalty. You can do it, but then everything you do gets a -2 penalty.)

Indeed, if you did nothing else other than copy and paste the above numbers into a profile, you could consider yourself ready to go.

Gear won't mean as much, but if you wanted to, you could look over the link and delve into the Hindrance section to boost things more.

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There's always something....

6) The Mech Jock Feat comes with a free feat: MechWarrior: you can spend bennies to soak wounds done to your mech. (With your own Vigor die.)

7) I've re-read the missile rules and I remembered that I hated them. I'm doing this system to try and cut OUT b*#@%%!* rules. It does us no good to introduce MORE bs that SW happens to have. Hence, missile attacks will now be resolved in ONE round. Ranges, instead of giving the defender multiple rounds to defend (ugh) will now just apply their penalty to the Attacker's roll.

Old way:

For missile fired at Long Range:

Round 1:

Attacker rolls for missile.
Defender rolls against missile.

Round 2:

Defender gets to roll against missile -again-.

Round 3:

Defender gets to roll against missile -again-.

Resolve.

New way:

Attacker rolls for missile - 4.
Defender rolls against missile.
Resolve.

(I understand if this makes no sense now. It's one of those things that will make perfect sense one you see it in action. Suffice that in the old way I can imagine having to keep track of literally dozens of missile in the air for some numbers of rounds. Not doing it!)

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Okay, yeah, everyone start posting characters and aliases and things and when we're all set I'll get the intro to the scenario up.

If you have questions go ahead and ask, but we're just basically making a SW character with the above as a template.

(Srsly, guys, what are you waiting on?)

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Plaguestone ◆ Hell's Rebels (Maps/Slides) (Loot, Tracker, Rumors) ◆

Sorry, been a little busy but will get an alias up today.

I do need a concept, but I don't know the setting enough to get it to fit properly. Are we on a barren planet? Is it abandoned? Are we in a city? Culture? Government? Laws? Society? :)

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Excellent, sir!

For the purposes of this scenario, you are a trainee in the Regular House army of the Federated Suns, rule by House Davion, the most powerful Great House in the Inner Sphere. You are a cadet at New Avalon, their capital and one of the most prestigious military colleges in known space.

tl;dr: Mankind has expanded into space with FTL flight. The 'sphere' of expansion is ruled in five parts, and those 5 parts make awesome war with giant robots. =)

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Plaguestone ◆ Hell's Rebels (Maps/Slides) (Loot, Tracker, Rumors) ◆

Can you help me/us understand the importance of each of the attributes? Is Strength only for melee attacks? Will we only have combat within our mechs, rendering Vigor useless?

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Good questions all around.

Yes, for the purposes of this game, Str will be all but useless. I'm not saying that there won't be -any- encounters outside of your mechs, but that is why we (I) are all here, so, yeah, that would be lessened.

The rest...I've actually tried kinda hard to make sure that they ALL are important, in their own ways.

Agility: Very important, because of the base stat of Shooting.
Also secondary Piloting.

Intelligence: I've twerked the rules slightly so Knowledge (E-Warfare!) is used often, so this is important. Indeed, if you pumped this and dumped Agility and twerked your mech as a missile-boat, this could be your most important stat.

Also, Repair. You WILL be dependant on your own repair abilities...um, always. In the campaign a LOT of encounters will have only days between them with no help but your own toll kits.

Also, Know(Battle!). Again, in the campaign there will be a LOT of infantry floating around (because lives are cheap but mechs are expensive) and it would be very easy for the PCs to be better than their defaulted leadership. If the infantry does better, then you do better then everyone does better....

Vigor: I've created the MechWarrior perk both to make bennies useful AND to make Vigor useful. Normally you can only use bennies and Vigor to Soak your own rolls (that is, to prevent yourself from taking a Wound) but with that feat, you can now use your own Vigor to keep your BattleMech from taking damage.

ALSO! There exists a critical hit wherein the PILOT takes damage. A high Vigor will help here.

Spirit: Ummmmm....yeah, I got nothin. Normally SPirit is rolled for when the character gets Shaken (more on that later) but since that effect doesn't exist in vehicular combat, the usefulness is limited.

How's that?

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Would it help if OMG it's MAXIMILLIAN STIRLING!!1! engaged in a little one on one?

I could run him through the most basic of combats, and you could see the system in action.

In other news....

Max! Your mech is, of course, the VLK-QA Valkyrie.

Commonly thought of as less of a 'scout' and more of a 'scout hunter' the VLK sports greater than average speed and jump capability so it can keep up with the faster and lighter mechs that it needs to hunt down. It's primary firepower comes from the twin Long Range Missile rack thats it can use to destroy scout mech from any but the most improbable of distances.
Backing up its firepower for use when things get too close, or when it runs out of missiles, it also has a Quad-linked Martel Medium Laser. While the quad-linkage means that it only carries 25 shots in the default battery pack, an additional battery pack has been placed on-board so it should be able to kill whatever it needs to.

VLK-QA Valkyrie stats:

Size: 6
Pace: 36(!)
Strength: d12+4
Toughness 26(11)

Modifications:
Jump Jets
ATS (AMCM, Targeting, Sensors)

Quad linked M Laser (1 battery pack = 25 shots)
+1 battery pack (+25 shots = 50 total)
4 LRM missile rack 
4 LRM missile rack(2nd one)
36 LRM(Lt.) missiles 


Yes! - Let's throw down.

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Alright!

ZenFox is having problems of his own. He sent me a note saying "I'm too busy with grown up things to care about your adolescent obsession--I'll post later maybe." I'm not sure what that means, but I'll wait a bit anyway. ;)

Okay, Max, for the purposes of this simulation you will be fighting against a COM-2D Commando.

The prototypical light-fighter, it boasts a good array of short-range missiles and the standard medium laser. Which is good because it needs to take out its target first since it, like most light mechs, can't take much punishment. Best as a hit-and-fade raider or forceful scout.

Stats:

Pace: 28
Tou: 26(11)

Mods:
Stealth,
ATS,
2 SRM launcher 100/200/400 6d6 AP 20
2 SRM launcher
32 SRM(AT) missiles
Medium Lazer 150/300/600 3d10 AP 10

(stats for LRM: 200/400/800 6d6 AP 8)

Spd +1Armor 3Sensors 1AMCM 1Stealth 64 SRM Missiles 232 AT missiles 4


Str d4 | Agi d10 | Int d6 | Spirit d4 | Vigor d6 // d10 Piloting d10 Shooting d8 Knowledge(EW) d6 Repair

Alright, more or less copied your skill build, but split the d8 Int between Int and Vigor for d6/d6. I'll watch this fight for now!


Str d4 | Agi d10 | Int d6 | Spirit d4 | Vigor d6 // d10 Piloting d10 Shooting d8 Knowledge(EW) d6 Repair

Oh, and it looks like your Slides are private. To fix this, hit the 'Share' button at the top right of the screen. Change the dropdown to "Anyone with the link can edit", and then "Get Shareable Link". Paste that link to us!

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https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1_3iAbQQkF6mIQgncdmV6EjmwRjVZoGHoYVokWaq 5Rqo/edit?usp=sharing

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Darwin "Nasty D" Foxwell wrote:
I'll watch this fight for now!

Hahahaha...F that. I'll not have _the_ Nasty D just be a bystander!

You are piloting a PNT-9R Panther.

'In the same vein as it's ancestor, the Sturmgeschultz, the Panther (also called the 'Alley Cat') is slow for a light mech but still fast enough to keep up with the front line, while its BFG Partical Accelerator is a weapon usually seen on battlemechs many tons larger. That the Part. Acc. is backed up by an array of anti-tank missiles seems almost superfluous.
With massive firepower and an uncannily tough frame, the panther is known as a reliable light mech whose presence is always welcomed...if its friendly.'

Stats for the PNT-9R Panther:
Okay, all Light mechs are size '6'.

Pace: 22
Toughness 36(17)

Mods:
Jump Jets
ATS
2 SRM launcher 100/200/400 6d6 AP 20
2 SRM launcher
24 SRM missiles
Medium Particle Accelerator 100/200/400 4d8+2 AP 10

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"Cadet Foxwell, please report to the training bay. Cadet Foxwell to the training bay."


I know I'm coming in really late, but I just wanted to point out a few things about Atlas' example build.

He left out the Spirit Attribute in his build list, which would be a d4.

A d4 in Vigor is *lousy* for when it comes to Soaking damage. You'll want at least a d6, maybe more depending on the damage/Toughness ratio between missiles and the mechs.

By taking Hindrances, you can take up to two more Edges, or boost two Attributes a die level (hint : Vigor!), or get 4 more Skill points (or any mix of the above). Definitely take Hindrances, for the extra things you can buy with them!

Oh, and characters start with a d4 in Athletics, Common Knowledge, Notice, Persuasion, and Stealth.

Atlas, are we using the new skills but the old rules? Because in the new rules Athletics plays a big role in many things, but is our mech's Athletics the same as our personal Athletics?

Also, under the new rules, we get 12 (not 13) skill points. Want to just give us that extra one since it makes your example build very nice? :)


Atlas - so, I'm trying to pick another Edge, and I have some questions :

Are mechs more like giant fighting robots, or more like the two-legged Walkers from Star Wars? I guess really what I'm asking is if mechs ever engage in "hand-to-hand" (or melee weapon-wielding) combat. If not, a whole bunch of combat Edges become useless. And with d4's in Spirit and Vigor, many more Edges aren't accessible (I was considering Elan, but it requires Spirit d8+).

"Ace" adds +2 to our Piloting rolls, but also includes making Soak rolls for your vehicle (using Piloting instead of Vigor), which you've already given us, so that's been kind of nerfed. Could you think of something else to add to Ace to make up for the Soaking?

What about changing Mech Warrior to use our Piloting skill instead of our Vigor to Soak damage? That would put it more in-line with "Ace", and given our lousy low Vigor...

How about some kind of mech equivalent to "Healer" :
Mechanic
Requirements : Novice, Repair d8+
A hero with this Edge adds +2 to all Repair rolls.
Healer adds this bonus to your comrades' Natural Healing rolls, so this is a little nerfed compared to the orginal...

I don't see any good Edges in the Sci-Fi companion (you've already given us "Rocket Jock" as Mech Jock).

Can you think of any good available Edges?


Atlas - I'd like to do some analysis of typical weapon damage vs. mech armor Toughness to see how evenly matched they are. Can you please tell me the damage dice for :

Quad linked M Laser
LRM(Lt.) missiles


Str d4 | Agi d10 | Int d6 | Spirit d4 | Vigor d6 // d10 Piloting d10 Shooting d8 Knowledge(EW) d6 Repair

Depending on your answers to Zenfox, Atlas, I'd likely want to change up my build a little.

Also, please add a link to your slides in the Campaign Info for easy access (or in the Race field of your own alias profile for even easier access). Link it with [url tags too, please.


Atlas - I've just run some simulations, and if a VLK-QA Valkyrie and a COM-2D Commando were just firing missiles at each other :

The Valkyrie would take NO damage 8% of the time.
The Commando would take NO damage 22% of the time.

The Valkyrie would :

Be Shaken 18% of the time
Take 1 Wound 22% of the time
Take 2 Wounds 20% of the time
Take 3 Wounds 15% of the time
Take 4+ Wounds 18% of the time

And the Commando would :

Be Shaken 22% of the time
Take 1 Wound 20% of the time
Take 2 Wounds 14% of the time
Take 3 Wounds 11% of the time
Take 4+ Wounds 13% of the time

That's making an out-of-control roll 93% of the time for *every* missile hit, and rolling to Soak 75% of the time for *every* missile hit for the Valkryie, and slightly less for the Commando!

I think you need to either increase your mech's Toughness and/or decrease the weapon damage and/or AP values.

This is assuming that I'm doing all the Armor and AP things right, which I'm maybe 90% sure that I am.

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Alright!

1) point the first...rocket(mech) jock is not free, you need to take it. Apologies if there is confusion.

2) No to buffing Ace. +2 to piloting is very useful. Worth the feat on its own. Even moreso allowing to substitute a skill for an admittedly lower trait.

3) good eye about Mechanic! I literally thought that already existed. (Like a reverse All Thumbs.) Let it be said, let it be done.

4) lemme think more on that athletics thing. Mechs doing athletics threw me for a loop.

5) Yes there is hand to hand combat! One mech, the Hatchetman, is built around it.

6) y'know, I'm learning this stuff just as much as you. I expressly forbid any kind of analyzing. =) make a char quick and I'll give you a mech with guns and we'll find out together. =)

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Ninja'd!

I'd like to stress thAt these are -light- mechs. They're not meant to live long in combat, and you'll be upgrading as we go.

Also! If this combat started at 800 inches those numbers would be different.
Also also! I said that a e warfare build was viable. This is why.....

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A word on movement.

There are usually two major penalties to firing weapons: Range and Movement.

All weapons have three ranges listed, short, medium and long.

Hence, for a Short Range Missile, anything before 100 is Short range, anything between 100 and 200 is Medium, and anything from 200 to 400 is Long range.

The penalty for Medium Range is -2 and Long is -4.

Also, for Movement, for every 10 inches the target moved, there is another -1.

This means that it's always good to try and move your pace, and if you run as your action (mechs get 2d6 extra when they run) you'll probably get another -1 for enemies to attack you.


Atlas wrote:
Also! If this combat started at 800 inches those numbers would be different.

If you're referring to my simulation numbers, no they wouldn't. That's because I calculated the damage per missile hit, and did not bother to factor in how often they hit.

But, for missiles..
With K(EW) d8, Medium Range (-2), vs. a target with K(EW) d8 with AMCM (+2) : the attacker will hit the target a mere 20% of the time (opposed rolls are always harder to make, and that -2 to the attacker and +2 to the defender makes a BIG difference!). So we'd be wasting 4/5 of our ammo on misses. Even if you allowed Targeting to apply to missiles, we'd still be wasting 2/3 of our ammo on misses.

I hate to argue with the DM, but I know statistics very well, and they tell a better story than any one single battle can, because in the simulation there are 1000's of battles being run. In any one game, the dice can favor one side over the other to give a skewed view of how the system really works. I'll stand by my analysis in the previous post, and strongly suggest that you make some changes soon.

Atlas wrote:
...if you run as your action (mechs get 2d6 extra when they run) you'll probably get another -1 for enemies to attack you.

But, running is a ("regular") action, and so all your other actions (Piloting, Shooting, K(EW)) would take a -2 hit to them.

Also, what about changing Mech Warrior to use our Piloting skill instead of our Vigor to Soak damage, as Ace does? It kind of makes logical sense, maneuvering our mechs to minimize damage, rather than using our own personal Vigor for our mech.

I'm creating my character based on the assumption that you'll say yes to the above, if not I'll have to tweak some things.


Human

ZenFox reporting for duty - what kind of mech do I have for the battle in Gameplay?

Atlas wrote:
Also, for Movement, for every 10 inches the target moved, there is another -1.

So, my battlefield strategy will be : every round I will fire a weapon, then move my 20+ pace as a Free Action (just side to side if needed), to give every enemy a -2 to hit me. :)

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ZenFox42 wrote:

That's making an out-of-control roll 93% of the time for *every* missile hit, and rolling to Soak 75% of the time for *every* missile hit for the Valkryie, and slightly less for the Commando!

I think you need to either increase your mech's Toughness and/or decrease the weapon damage and/or AP values.

Huh. Gosh. It's almost as if a weapon that has a very high chance of being effective, also is kinda difficult to hit with. ;)

It's almost as if someone, I'm not sure who, could be anyone, realized that these two factors interact with each other, and everything contributes toward an average.

(It's seems that you've now stumbled upon something, and are now starting to see the "big picture". Well done. =)

Hence, I see nothing wrong with missiles.

In the same vein, as has already been pointed out, Vigor becomes meaningless if it doesn't have a role. MechWarrior is a free feat, that I'm giving out so that Vigor means something, even to a starting player. (A player that is free to not use it, if they chose not to.)
To have a starting player be able to leave their Vigor at d4 to substitute a skill that is at d10 that they have -anyway- is just too much power.

If you want to spend Hindrances to get Ace (you can get up to two feats that way anyway, so it's not like it's even a big deal) I'll not stop you right now.

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Also, yes, since light mechs have a good pace, they have an intrinsic defense against shots. (They also have a size advantage that will come into play once we start getting into larger mechs.)

The thing about running is that if you can afford a Multi Action Penalty, or need MOAR defense right now, the Run action gives you both distance AND defense.)

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Stats for JR7-D Jenner.

Pace: 32
Jump Jets
ATS

Toughness: 26(11)

Quad linked  med laser 150/300/600 3d10 (+2 to hit, +4 damage)
(25 shots)
2 SRM launcher 100/200/400 6d6 AP 20
2 SRM launcher
24 SRM missiles


Ok, so I compared the Valkyrie vs. the Commando shooting lasers at each other :

Each laser *hit* would :
Do no damage 50% of the time
Shaken 22% of the time
Inflict 1 or more Wounds 28% of the time (and 4+ Wounds only 5% of the time)

That sounds reasonable. Altho we'd still be making Out-of-Control rolls 50% of the time...

Oops, I just noticed the +4 damage... so now each *hit* would :
Do no damage 25% of the time
Shaken 25% of the time
Inflict 1 or more Wounds 50% of the time (and 4+ Wounds 10% of the time)

Now we'd be making OoC rolls 75% of the time.

Would you consider removing the +4 damage from the lasers?

And with Shooting d10, medium range (-2), Targeting (+2), you'd hit 85% of the time.

Oops, I just noticed the +2 to hit... so now :
You'd hit 98% of the time!

Would you consider removing the +2 to hit?

P.S. - sorry, I don't know why, but it didn't even occur to me that if we took Ace we'd get the Piloting roll to Soak feature.


A primer on die rolling for new SW players :

As Atlas has said several times, you *always* include a d6 with your roll, except for Damage rolls (well, there's an exception to that, but let's deal with that later).

When we start adding penalties and bonuses, you add the modifier to the d6 as well.

If any die rolls its maximum value (6 on a d6, 8 on a d8, etc.), that's an "Ace", and you get to re-roll *that* die, and add its value to your total roll. Note : do not include the modifier (if any) on the re-roll!

So if you had 4 rolls as an action, with a +2 bonus :
{dice=Shooting+quad}d10+2; d10+2; d10+2; d10+2; d6+2{/dice}

Resulting in :
10+2=12
4+2=6
1+2=3
8+2=10
6+2=8

You'd re-roll the first d10 and the d6 (without modifiers) :
{dice=Shooting ACES!}d10; d6{/dice}

Resulting in :
8
6

Since the re-rolled 6 also Aced, you re-roll it again, until the value *isn't* 6!

{dice=Wild ACE! ACE!}d6{/dice}

Resulting in :
1

So your final total rolls are :
12+8=20
6
3
10
8+6+1=15

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ZenFox42 wrote:


Would you consider removing the +4 damage from the lasers?

Would you consider removing the +2 to hit?

As Spock once said "His pattern would indicate 2-dimensional thinking."

Dude, we have even -started- -moving- yet.

(I'm pretty sure I didn't want analysis going on. All of your math is like critiquing the Tutorial.)

Also, no, I want to see how things go. BAttleMechs are supposed to take damage. Also, you may find yourself in a Light mech going up against a Mediumn mech, someday. You'll want some GRade-A Bang-bang then.

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Also, as I read SWADE more, my first impression is "but why?"

Other than that, it seems to make minor changes that I can see are better.

The SWADE Ace doesn't give +2, but does let you not get up to -2. This seems more betterer.


Atlas or ZenFox, please explain the value in rolling greater than a 4 on any roll. Like, why does it matter if I string three aces together and end up with a 29 to-hit for a missile.


Trying to make sense of all the rules. I believe the following summary is correct for Missile combat:

Missiles
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> To-Hit Skill: Knowledge (Electronic Warfare)
> Attacker Rolls K(EW) for every missile fired, then also roll the Wild Dice once (a 4 is a success).
> Defender Rolls K(EW) against every Attacker roll success, and adds +2 to the result of each roll for AMCM (Anti-Missile Counter Measures). Each success negates 1 Attacker success
> Attacking with missiles at Medium Range incurs a -2 penalty to-hit, and Long Range incurs a -4 to-hit penalty for each roll

I don't know if the result of a roll exceding 4 for any missile attack makes any difference in the outcome. Please clarify.


Also, I must absolutely insist that we eliminate either "Inches" or "Yards" from the game lexicon. One or the other is acceptable, but not both. To me, "Inches" is not relevant in this forum. I don't care how many inches something is away - that means absolutley nothing. Yards = the actual range of a weapon, and 1 square = 10 yards. That makes for very simple math.

I vote to never use the word "Inches" again in this game. Ever.


Savage World "Feats"? What the hell are you referring to? What is Mass Combat?


I can forsee missile combat being a bottleneck to the overall flow of combat. The opposed-roll idea is generally bad in PbP, as it slows everything down by the cadence of posting. I'm sure you have thought about this but, being a complete novice to both Battletech and Savage wars, maybe I bring fresh eyes.

Is there a more efficient way to prosecute missile combat that does not include an opposed roll? You know what's weird about Battletech is that the game system is 40 years old, so these futuristic mechs feel low-tech. Missiles in BT must not have any kind of guidance system. It's like shooting old bazookas where you have to actually aim them and then they fly along a straight trajectory until they run out of fuel. I'm not going to build a $100 Million Mech and put four bazookas on it. Translating that to the rules, if I'm attacking, first I miss because I'm a bad aim, then I miss some more because you stepped to the side. (I don't hate the idea of that, but it's the sort of thing that works fine when we're all standing around a table and doesn't work at all when we're waiting 2 days for a forum post.)

Since you are making Knowledge the Initiative skill, why not just combine Initiative and EW and have both apply for the duration of combat?

For example, combat begins, and I roll d8 (Knowledge) for Initiative. In a real sense this represents my ability to prepare for combat, which is also a measure of skill and experience. As part of that prepapartion, I'll tune my Electronic Countermeasures given the variables of the current engagement. Hence, I set the difficulty number against which the enemy must exceed in order to strike my mech with a missile. There can be an appropriate feat, like say umm, MechWarrior, that grants +2 to the Init/EW roll, and also improvements to hardware and software that can increase this number. An "Anti-Missile System" wouldn't just be a stock modifier of 2, but could scale depending on the quality (cost) of that technology.

I know that flies hard against the entire philosophy of SW, that a "4" represents a success, but with opposed rolls, that's not exactly true anyway.

Each Mech could have its own Init/EW attribute - sort of a Autopilot. So if I roll d8 and get a 2, which means I'm gonna die, I realize I miscalculated and flip the "Auto" switch, and the mech's attribute value supercedes my roll. So let's say that's a 4. Lots better.

These are just ideas off the top of my head, but I think we may get a little frustrated with missiles as they are today.


Or, if we are deadset on sticking with SW philosophy, we could just validate hits. If I roll four missles and get 3 successes, then I roll three more dice to "validate" the successes. The result is the number of missiles that hit. I don't like this idea, but it's faster than opposed rolls.

This does have the side benefit of making it harder to "game" the Paizo dice-roller, which is too easy to do and can be frustrating to a GM. Incidentally, I think SW is particularly vulnerable to this. If I preview my roll and know I'm getting a 6 or an 8, then I can change my action - taking multiple actions which incur the -2 penalty knowing full-well I will succeed anyway and be awesome when all I really did was manipulate the system to my advantage.


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Str d4 | Agi d10 | Int d6 | Spirit d4 | Vigor d6 // d10 Piloting d10 Shooting d8 Knowledge(EW) d6 Repair

All of this mechanical ambiguity is eh, not so enjoyable. I generally play for RP and story... this is a nightmarish amount of rules mumbo jumbo. I appreciate the condensed version you posted above, Maximillian, and would love it if Atlas could similarly summarize things once all of the back and forth is through.

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