The Past Returns (Inactive)

Game Master sunshadow21

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I'll think on it and let you know later tonight. Right now I am dealing with landlord issues.


Good luck.


Male Probably human Computer Scientist 1/ Character Synthesizer 20/ Crazy 99
The Voice of Wisdom wrote:
I'll think on it and let you know later tonight. Right now I am dealing with landlord issues.

Yikes. Hope everything goes well.


Female Human Bard

Looking at other characters made me realize Zella was a trait short, so I went ahead and took:

Harrow Chosen:
Harrow Chosen
All your life you've been drawn to the mysteries surrounding your family's harrow deck.

Benefit: You begin play with your family's heirloom harrow deck. If you use this specific harrow deck as an additional focus component when you cast a divination spell, your caster level is treated as being 2 levels higher. Additionally, twice per week, you can spend 10 minutes consulting this harrow deck on a particular action to gain the effects of the spell augury as a spellcaster of your character level. No one other than you gains these benefits from this harrow deck. If your harrow deck is destroyed, it cannot be replaced. However, by returning to your family, paying 300 gp on materials, and spending 1 week immersed in the songs and stories of your people, you can create a new harrow deck that grants half the benefits of the lost heirloom.

About the extra gold you gave out to the new players, could that have been used for items before starting?


Zelladanyia wrote:
About the extra gold you gave out to the new players, could that have been used for items before starting?

Thanks for asking that, I've been meaning to but I keep forgetting.


You received it in Sandpoint, or in similar environments, thus there is a price cap on what you can do with it, and it is a separate pool from the original starting money, but otherwise, yes, you can have already spent it before officially joining the party. Basically, the idea is that at the time they entered the dungeon, or some equivalent in time for the newcomers, you were all even; everything earned since that time can be spent in a similar environment, helping preserve to some extent overall balance.


Got it, will update tonight.


Female Human Bard

Does the group have a cure light wounds wand yet?


Yeah, Krojun's got it right now but he'd be happy to pass it on.


L2 Cleric of Starsong AC 18/14/15, HP 22/22, Saves: 5/5/7, Perc 5, Init 5
Krojun-Speaks-With-Thunder wrote:
Yeah, Krojun's got it right now but he'd be happy to pass it on.

I'll take it if you want? Or would it be better for someone who can't channel? Most of my actions will aid others.


Female Human Bard

Trying to figure out what to spend the rest of that gold on and wasn't sure if a clw wand would be a needed thing or not.


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

A second wand of clw will be needed eventually so it wouldn't be a bad idea. Either that or a wand of a good first level spell like, protection from evil or something would be good. Or you could save it so you can put it into your bow.


Krojun's going to get a +1 cloak. I assume that's fine in Sandpoint?


With Talon's connections, I'll let it slide without a roll, but it's definitely on the upper edge.


Understood.


Half-Elven Rogue Lvl 3 HP 19/19 INIT+6 AC 16 CMB+4 CMD+16 MW Rapier/MW S. Sword (+6,+4/+2) 1d6+2/18-20x2/19-20x2 S. Bow (+5) 1d6+2/x3 (F:1 R:9 W:1)

Without me going back to calc it - how much do I have to spend?


Whatever you had before +512 gold.


L2 Cleric of Starsong AC 18/14/15, HP 22/22, Saves: 5/5/7, Perc 5, Init 5

Duck hunting in BFE Ark. Poor connectivity. DMPC as needed.


Will get something up tomorrow, had to worry about money matters, again, today.


HP is the same as the last time you leveled, and you can make the decision independently of whatever you chose last time. There is a few more restrictions to leveling this time because you are technically in the middle of a "dungeon." First, you do not automatically heal any damage already taken; if you were at 8/10 before and added 10 hp, you would now be at 18/20, not 20/20. Second, for those who prepare spells, your new spell slots are not automatically filled, but rather are treated as if you left them empty at the beginning of the day. Small things, but things I've found help maintain the flow and feel of the adventure.


+Bard level

HP w/ Con and Favored Class: 1d8 + 4 ⇒ (7) + 4 = 11

+1 Reflex
+1 Will

+2 Perform (Sing)
+1 Perception
+1 Kn: History
+1 Kn: Nature

+2 performance rounds
+Versatile Performance (Sing)
+Well-Versed (bonus to saves vs sonic effects)
+1st level Spell, Charm Animal

+Extra Rage


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

Summoner 3

HP: +8

Fort +1
Ref +1

Arcana +1
Handle Animal +1
Geography +1

Summon Monster 1 = Summon Monster 2

+ Read Magic
+ Protection From Evil

+ Power Attack


Female Human Bard

Since my spells aren't prepared just known, I simply wouldn't get any additional castings for this day, correct?


Male Eidolon(Quadruped) (HP 10/10; AC:16, T:14, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+5 Will:+0; Init+3; Perception +12) (Effects: None)

Eidolon 3

HP: +5

Will +1

Perception +1
Sense Motive +1
Use Magic Device +2

+ Evolution(Skilled)(Use Magic Device)

+ Cosmopolitan(Perform(Dance)*, Use Magic Device)(Draconic, Shoanti*)

I'm planning on having Copper learn these new things from party members before I use them.


Non-prepared casters are unaffected since they don't require extra time to use their spell slots normally.


Female Human Bard

Ok.


L2 Cleric of Starsong AC 18/14/15, HP 22/22, Saves: 5/5/7, Perc 5, Init 5

Cleric 3

HP: +6

BAB: +1

Favored Class Bonus: 1 extra use of the luck domain (7 uses/day)

+1 Ref Save

UMD +1
Diplomacy +1

Feat: Extra Channel +2 uses

Channel increases to 2d6 and I now have 7 uses

Spells: 1st +1, 2nd +2/+1


Half-Elven Rogue Lvl 3 HP 19/19 INIT+6 AC 16 CMB+4 CMD+16 MW Rapier/MW S. Sword (+6,+4/+2) 1d6+2/18-20x2/19-20x2 S. Bow (+5) 1d6+2/x3 (F:1 R:9 W:1)

Rogue 3

HP: HP +1 Favored Class: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 1 = 3

[occ]Cripes - GM any way I can get a reroll on that?[/ooc]

+1 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Will

Now: Sneak Attack @ 2d6, gain Trap Sense +1

Trap Sense (Ex): At 3rd level, a rogue gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the rogue reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.

Skills: +10

Stealth +1
Perception +1
Diplomacy +1
Survival +1
Knowledge Local +1
Disable Device +1
Sleight of Hand +1
Sense Motive +1
Use Magical Device +1
Linguistics +2+3+1 Goblin (will wait till we are back to taown and I have had a chance to RP some learning)


Sorcerer 3
HP: +4
BAB: +0

Fort: +1
Ref: +1
Wil: +0

+1 Acrobatics
+1 Knowledge (arcana)
+1 Perception
+1 Spellcraft
+1 UMD

Additional Spells: 1-1st Moment of Greatness
Casts per Day: 1st - 6/day

Feat: Point Blank Shot


Talon Eldercourt wrote:

[occ]Cripes - GM any way I can get a reroll on that?[/ooc]

I'll allow you to go with the average+1 this once.


Half-Elven Rogue Lvl 3 HP 19/19 INIT+6 AC 16 CMB+4 CMD+16 MW Rapier/MW S. Sword (+6,+4/+2) 1d6+2/18-20x2/19-20x2 S. Bow (+5) 1d6+2/x3 (F:1 R:9 W:1)

You are gracious, thank you!


Regarding my use of the dice roller:

I tried it as a DM briefly, and it didn't work; it's not bad for one or two set of rolls, but especially in a fight like this, it's a major time killer that seriously limits my ability to make quick posts in combat, especially when added with the time needed to take care of the maps. I also tried using invisible castle and linking the rolls, but that really didn't save all that much time. In the end, I've found that in order to keep combat moving, it's easier to use my own dice and roll them the old fashioned way. It's not perfect, and it does require a bit of trust, but I do my best to earn that trust by addressing any concerns that may come up as promptly and fairly as possible. There are a few other minor reasons that I've found strengthen me using this method, but the biggest one by far is the time of writing up the posts.


On a separate note, the Legacy of Fire game I am playing in has developed some holes in the party; if you're interested in playing, let me know, and I'll throw you a link. We currently have a witch (myself) and a sorcerer; everyone else seems to have simply disappeared from the thread of late.


L2 Cleric of Starsong AC 18/14/15, HP 22/22, Saves: 5/5/7, Perc 5, Init 5

VOW-Thanks for the clarification. That works fine for me. I'll try to be descriptive on movement. Sorry again for jumping the gun on the combat!!!


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

While I understand the extra work/time involved, it bothered me when I got critted and when I got dropped when I didn't even see the rolls. It makes me think AC is useless when even level 1 goblins hit me. But if I'm the only one it bothers, I guess I'll deal.


I certainly understand your concerns, and I do everything I can do alleviate them, but at some point, something has to give; in my case, I have chosen to keep combats moving by sacrificing rolling on the thread, and most DMs I've played with end up doing the same eventually as well. As much as I like many things about this website, the dice roller is not particularly one of them; I understand their limitations in implementing it, but it really is a pain from the perspective of a DM running multiple NPCs. Unfortunately, including links isn't any faster because it still requires use of the same kind of tags that makes the dice roller so hard to use.

In your case, Rohan, AC really didn't matter mostly because I rolled 2 20's in a row; I do very much try to avoid killing characters by random crits in nonboss fights, but sometimes there is only so much I can do without cheating the NPCs. In Pimpernell's case, I rolled almost as high both times with a boss that has a +10 to hit, so he came dangerously close to being in that same boat. Neither case is particularly common, but they do come up from time to time, and all I can ask is that you have patience and trust in me when it does; it's not the ideal solution, but it's the best one I have been able to come up with to date.

As for the confusion of the combat start, that was due as much to my unexpectedly busy work schedule as it was to anyone or anything else.


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

Well it makes me think that anything that boosts my AC has little effect when I don't see it having one. So I'll probably just retrain shield when I level. Honestly, while I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, it still decreases my enjoyment of combat.


Understood. Unfortunately, overall, the more I play this system, the more that I am disappointed in how little it actually helps overall to increase AC. There are ways to increase your AC in a way that is worth it, but only if you are personally willing to sacrifice any offensive output whatsoever, and even than, half the time it really doesn't work. That is one of my biggest gripes about 3.x/PF; defense on the whole is seriously undervalued, and almost always comes at a cost that really isn't worth it. The focus is mostly on how to kill your opponent faster than they can kill you, and even the offensive buffs often seem like a waste of time to me because most of them are either not worth the standard action to cast them, or are simply adding another bonus to an already guaranteed kill.


AC is actually the most cost-effective defensive stat in the game.

But yeah, I noticed people tend to value balls-to-the-wall offense over AC in most cases.


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

That's not what I meant. It's doesn't seem worth it when things either hit or don't hit. I don't get to see if the extra 4 AC from shield mattered or not. Like I have AC 20 from shield and I got missed because you got 19, then I see that shield mattered. But since I don't see it, to me I might as well not waste the action/spell slot. And honestly I want to trust everyone, but it's difficult. I've played with DMs who fudge die rolls "behind the screen" for the sake of the story and I hated it.


Krojun-Speaks-With-Thunder wrote:

AC is actually the most cost-effective defensive stat in the game.

But yeah, I noticed people tend to value balls-to-the-wall offense over AC in most cases.

Of the defenses, AC is the most cost effective, but it's still seriously outstripped by the offensive capabilities in the system. I mean, even a 3/4 BAB class can frequently ignore it with the common and worthwhile buffs once they reach level 5 or 6.


That's actually a common misconception. Defensive buffs scale faster and are more common than offensive buffs.

It's very easy to build a character that's only hittable on natural 20s for the entirety of his career.

It wouldn't be fun but it's very doable.


Rohan Drake wrote:
That's not what I meant. It's doesn't seem worth it when things either hit or don't hit. I don't get to see if the extra 4 AC from shield mattered or not. Like I have AC 20 from shield and I got missed because you got 19, then I see that shield mattered. But since I don't see it, to me I might as well not waste the action/spell slot.

That part I can't help with much unfortunately, and even if it was a face to face game, it would still likely come up because a lot of DMs prefer to roll behind a screen. That is something that can really only be dealt with by experience and having enough combats to get a feel for what tends to work over time and what doesn't. That is where a face to face game as a huge advantage over a pbp; a face to face game can actually have a lot of smaller encounters that allow the players to get that feel where pbps really can't without slowing the game down to a crawl.


Krojun-Speaks-With-Thunder wrote:

That's actually a common misconception.

It's very easy to build a character that's only hittable on natural 20s for the entirety of his career.

It wouldn't be fun but it's very doable.

I agree that it's doable, but it means basically sacrificing, most, if not all, of your offensive capabilities, and that tends to wear not only on the player, but on the party as a whole.


I agree. The invulnerable character is not fun both as a player or as a DM. Unfortunately, I find myself playing with them more often than not.

I'm working on a short document of 'Laws of Gaming Physics' one of which is that by optimizing defense to the maximum you're often hurting the game more than helping by forcing the DM to react in such a way that will overwhelm the not-optimized characters.


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

Well you can tweak the encounters to where there is less dice rolling, like less encounters where there's a horde of goblins with a bbeg/lieutenant to lessen how many dice you need to roll.

And I don't like it when DMs roll behind a screen either. The only times I've heard of people doing it, they were using it to cheat.

I say because as of right now, I'm not having any fun in combat.

As far as the defense debate goes, I find if I only have reasonable AC and not an insane amount, I just get focused down and I don't get to participate for the rest of the encounter.


I'm trying to tweak the combats as I get experience in running them, and am trying to get a feel for how to effectively run combats without maps, which would be the best way to resolve the issue. If it makes you feel better, I'm not particularly excited about the combats myself from the DM side, and am constantly trying to improve on my ability to run them in a way that is both efficient and fun. Once you get a few more levels, and you have a few more tactical options, and the monsters start to get a little more varied (lower levels tend to be goblins, hobgoblins, or kobolds, skeletons, zombies, and some special NPCs of the above (leaders or other custom created variants) to provide a decent challenge in most campaigns because that's all that there really is that level), the problems should decrease a bit on their own as well.


Resources:
1st Level Spells - 2/2 Summon Monster 1 - 5/5
Summoner 1 (HP 14/14; AC:14, T:11, FF:13; Fort:+2 Ref:+1 Will:+1; Init+3; Perception -1)
Effects:
None

Does this mean that you will roll the dice for them above board in the future? He asks with hope in his eyes.

I mean for this encounter, you could just make it ripnugget/mount, the warchanter and 1-2 liutenants which would be 4-5 attack rolls a turn.


This battle is far from over enemy wise. You walked straight into the throne room without dealing with the rest of the compound. It will be a while before I make any changes like that in this thread, but you've put an idea in my head; it that will take some time to develop but hopefully will help me find a middle ground.


Talon, where you at!

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