| Ernest Mueller |
Here's my thoughts on the options.
Standard - yay. I think "max at first level" is large enough without doubling or adding 6 or adding CON.
Racial - I strongly disagree with using race frailty, because that's what CON bonuses/penalties are for. Having racial CON mods and then add'l hp based on race is "double dipping." And it's why half-orcs should get CON bonus not WIS.
Flat, Double, Con - As a first level character I would never turn down more hit points, and back in the day when you had to roll it sucked when you were a 1-2 hp new character, but nowadays with the max and the HD generally being bigger it's fine IMO. Sure, you have to get stabilized at -5 a lot, but that's how you learn :-)
So in order of preference:
Standard
Flat
Double
CON
Racial
Wicht
|
I've said this before, but I will repeat it, standard seems best, especially for backwards compatibility.
The problem with racial is that then you have to give those weaker races something to offset the high hitpoints in order to achieve balance. And as pointed out, with con bonuses you get a double effect.
Another thing to consider, and I have seen this in our PbP playtesting, doubling the hitpoints, or giving racial bonuses, anything that increases hp over the standard, messes up the CR system at the low levels something feirce. I've been running a Dwarven Wizard with 21 hp at 1st level and think nothing about charging three goblins on my own. We've rampaged through the goblins we've been facing in large part because of the high hitpoints (and some good rolling and sound tactics) but it has from my perspective seriously changed the CR equations at 1st level.
| JRR |
I've said this before, but I will repeat it, standard seems best, especially for backwards compatibility.
Yep, hit points are already inflated too far. Leave them at max +con bonus.
Also, leave the sorceror and wizard with the d4, please. The wizard archetype should be the frail book toting geek.
sowhereaminow
|
Just my two cents: Prior to starting Rise of the Rune Lords, I was concerned about low level party survivability. We had done Age of Worms, and it seemed like at low levels the party spent a lot of time with members in negative hit points or resting after one encounter.
To counteract this effect, I instructed each player to add 5 bonus hit points to their first level character. (The party wizard was overjoyed). I used 5 hit points for a few reasons - one, it was roughly equal to the damage from a solid strike by a monster facing a 1st level adventurer, allowing them to survive at least one more hit. Secondly, if you averaged each of the hit die used for PC per the PHB, it averaged out to 4.5, or 5 rounded up. (Spurious logic, I know).
For the first game session, this proved to be a definite boon. The fifteen minute adventuring day got a least an extra 5 minutes. :-) The players didn't feel forced to rest as quickly, and pressed on a bit further than they normally would have.
I did notice a CR/EL problem in the second session once the players were second level. The extra hit points made it difficult to challenge the party without adding a few catapult fodder creatures. Please keep in mind at this point I was running this game pre-Pathfinder RPG. The revised class abilities, including bigger hit dice for some classes, favored class Hp bonus, and revised turning have not been applied yet. This weekend, I'll be using release 2 to see if this has any additional effect. Based on my pre-PRPG experience, I suspect it will cause a hiccup in the CR/EL system for adventures as written. Hopefully, the effect will lessen as the characters continue to advance.
Hope to have more playtest info after this weekend.
Locworks
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...Racial - I strongly disagree with using race frailty, because that's what CON bonuses/penalties are for. Having racial CON mods and then add'l hp based on race is "double dipping." And it's why half-orcs should get CON bonus not WIS.
...
Same here. Either a race is frail and gets a racial CON penalty or it is hardy and its members get a CON bonus. Why gnomes would be frail if they get a +2 to their CON?
| JRR |
Also, remember it's easier to ADD hit points if a dm wants wizards to have a d6 or d8 than to take them away. If I give the mage a d6 hit die, he's not likely to b%&&+, but if I downgrade him, I'm likely to get hit with dice. How about a standard d4 with a side bar for Dms to increase it to d6 if he so chooses?