Homecoming (Inactive)

Game Master The Wyrm Ouroboros

People who get things done.

Homecoming Information on Google Drive.
Chalion Wiki, helping to explain five of the Gods (the Holy Family) and how they work in the world; see especially The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls.
Especially For Paladins: Knights of the Cross from the Dresden Files (Jim Butcher) and 'Oath of Gold', the third book in the Deed of Paksenarrion (Elizabeth Moon).


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GM: I will echo Kubular...wow! I love it. Thank you for helping it fit Welby fit in your campaign. I cannot wait to flesh him out!!!


The Goblin wrote:
Okay this will be a challenge, but I've been playing since soft lead figurines so lets make this happen. Ipad is on fire, changeling paladin coming right up. I am assuming Medieval LG morality here right? You are evil so you die, you committed a sin, so you can die in horrible ways, not like Dudley Doright LG?

Going hardcore medieval LG would make things interesting, but also massively difficult. I suggest trying to find a nice balance between the two. That way your character won't try to smite Ham every time he starts slaughtering prisoners, if nothing else.

Shadow Lodge

Uh... I think he should be trying to smite someone who is slaughtering prisoners? At least trying to stop Ham from doing it. I think most of these guys would try to stop Ham, Burhul included, unless the prisoners personally wronged them.

Hopefully Ham doesn't do that.


@ Baltor Sure! Horst's father Jan (Yahn) was the chief warder of the fortress who was ousted in a scandal involving dereliction of duty (a grave misdeed among dwarves in general, and the nobility in particular). Jan came to live with Horst, his wife Luda, and young Njorl in the Smith's Quarter, but he was a broken man. When he died 25 or so years ago, Horst took it hard that he could not protect the father who had cared for him and made him into a man, and relocated to Mosval, where dwarven smiths are in high demand. All old friends from Kedron's Tor are welcome in the Ironbrows' home (those willing to be seen with the family fallen from grace anyway).


Kubular wrote:

Uh... I think he should be trying to smite someone who is slaughtering prisoners? At least trying to stop Ham from doing it. I think most of these guys would try to stop Ham, Burhul included, unless the prisoners personally wronged them.

Hopefully Ham doesn't do that.

To be honest, I don't know if Ham would bother to take prisoners. I'm torn between whether Ham would take the time to deliver a coup de gras to any opponent who falls unconscious, or would immediately turn his attention on the next acceptable target, figuring that a living victim is more fun. As for stopping him, I don't object to that. I just object to smiting him. It's hard to play the game when my character has a severe case of smiting.


Wyverna Anniston
Changeling paladin 3 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 29)
LG Medium humanoid (changeling)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
Aura courage (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 12, flat-footed 19 (+7 armor, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 shield)
hp 36 (3d10+6)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +8
Immune disease, fear; SR 9
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee heavy blade scabbard +5 (1d6+3) or
hatchet +5 (1d6+3/×3) or
heavy flail +5 (1d10+4/19-20) or
mwk greatsword +6 (2d6+4/19-20) or
unarmed strike +5 (1d3+3) or
2 claws +6 (1d4+4)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +6 (1d8+2/×3)
Special Attacks smite evil 1/day (+3 attack and AC, +3 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
At will—detect evil
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 16
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Improved Unarmed Strike, Mother's Gift: Hag Claws[ARG], Mother's Gift: Uncanny Resistance[ARG], Power Attack, Quick Draw
Traits armor expert, eyes and ears of the city, wisdom in the flesh
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 to jump), Craft (alchemy) +5, Diplomacy +7, Heal +6, Knowledge (nobility) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Perception +7, Perform (dance) +7, Profession (herbalist) +6, Ride +4, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +5
Languages Aklo, Common
SQ lay on hands 4/day (1d6), mercy (sickened)
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (2), potion of cure light wounds, alchemist's kindness[APG] (2), antiplague[APG] (2), antitoxin (2), bloodblock[APG] (2), healer's kit, smelling salts[APG], soothe syrup[APG] (2); Other Gear mwk agile breastplate with armored skirt[APG], mwk armored bracers (bucklers), hatchet, heavy blade scabbard, heavy flail, mwk composite longbow (+2 Str), mwk greatsword, belt pouch, bottle of strong brandy (1.5 lb), masterwork backpack[APG], 89 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Antitoxin This substance counteracts a specific toxin. If you drink a vial of antitoxin, you gain a +5 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison for 1 hour.

Alchemical Power Component
Like antiplague, this substance can augment certain healing spells.
Neutralize Poison (M): Add +2 on your caster level check to neutralize poison on a target creature. Antitoxin has no effect when you cast the spell on an object.
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Hulking Changeling (Annis Hag) (Ex) +1 to melee damage
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Lay on Hands (1d6 hit points, 4/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Mercy (Sickened) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the sickened condition.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Quick Draw Draw weapon as a free action (or move if hidden weapon). Throw at full rate of attacks.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +3 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Resistance (9) You have Spell Resistance.
Wisdom in the Flesh (Acrobatics) Acrobatics becomes a Wisdom-based, class skill.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.

Shadow Lodge

I actually don't know what the exact stats for Homecoming's changelings are but the GM also said that they are of the Alter Self-at-will variety rather than the Pathfinder standard type. His exact words were "Akin to Eberron" but I don't think he meant the mechanicals were the same. I think you just need to wait for him to clarify but II wanted to let youknow before you get too deep into her backstory.


Kubular wrote:
I actually don't know what the exact stats for Homecoming's changelings are but the GM also said that they are of the Alter Self-at-will variety rather than the Pathfinder standard type. His exact words were "Akin to Eberron" but I don't think he meant the mechanicals were the same. I think you just need to wait for him to clarify but II wanted to let youknow before you get too deep into her backstory.

Well poop. I'll get started deep reading the setting materials


Wyverna:
Kubular is correct - HC changelings are essentially identical to those of Eberron. Since you have Hero Lab, you may be interested in the Hero Lab 'Homecoming' download in the Google Drive files, which includes the appropriate version of the changeling. However, for quick use:

+2 to any one ability score
Changeling Weapon Familiarity (Naginata, Urumi, Wave Blades)
Darkvision (60')
Intuitive (+2 to Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive)
Slippery Mind (+2 vs. Sleep and Charm Spells)
Minor Shape Change (any Small or Medium individual, gaining a +10 circumstance bonus - which I am considering switching to a +10 racial bonus - on Disguise checks. This change affects the body, but not the clothing or gear; also, the changeling's attributes do not change, e.g. +2 to Dex in Small form or +2 to Strength in Medium form.)
Linguist (Any language allowed, excluding Druidic.)

Otherwise, looking good so far; sorry about the mixup.

I have added some information specifically to the treatise on Comparative Morality and Ethics, some of it specifically addressed to the paladin. Understand that while people may have the Dark Ages / Medieval outlook of 'it's evil, kill it; it's really evil, torture it to death', those sorts of actions and reactions are not those of Good people. This being a world where the Gods are real, but they work together and there are no 'gods at war with each other', it means that there is actually a relatively stable idea of 'what is actually good, what is actually evil'. A paladin is not going to kill someone in a horrible way; if a paladin must strike with lethal intent, she strikes for a clean kill.

She is a warrior and banner-man for the forces of good, one who strives to follow the laws - but if the laws of man are evil, then they are not laws, they are violations of what the gods have set down. (There are, not coincidentally, a number of paladins in the Bastard's Children faction for precisely this reason.) Few laws of men are like that, though - and to be truthful, there are not many people, proportionally, who are truly Evil either.

In regards to Ham and Wyverna, I think the paladin would recognize that the alchemist has some pretty serious problems in the head - an imbalance of body and mental humors, i.e. problems both chemical and psychological. (Which is, after all, true.) I think that she would have to use Smite on Ham no more than once, should he truely fall into evil ways; it would get his attention, I think, and the subsequent discussion-at-sword-point might get through to the lizard brain that This Is Not A Girl To Frag With. After all, messing with a predator who's the same size as you is not a survival trait, especially if it's a more efficient predator than you are - and Ham knows that Professor Brooks would be vulnerable, not just to the edge of a sword, but to long-term incarceration. Ham ain't stupid, just hungry.

And hungry crocodiles are known to go for multiple targets - though they DO usually make sure the first one is food, and not shamming. (I.e. probably a coup de grâce.)


I am reminded. More background and other stuff.

GoatToucher:
Would it be okay if you placed Horst in Mosval instead of in Kedron's Tor? Getting him out of the Tor and involved in the first goings-on might be a bit of a <-- redacted: female dog -->; how about the downfall of his father led to his banishment from the Tor and, banished, he took his family with him? You might've not been formally an adult, so though most of your formative years would have been spent in the Tor, the last number, perhaps including much of your adult life, has been in Mosval? With the larger number of people there, and the lower number of smiths, your particular crafting would draw more attention, and lead you to being one of those providing the Mosval army (known as the Rangers) with weapons.

Having thought about it, though, it occurs to me that the judgeship seemed kind of forced by me to be tacked on; why don't you nix the judgeness-ship entirely? That would enable you to concentrate skills on one less area, making you a divine that crafts arms and armor. Might be a little tough to balance both, but not too bad; in the Tor they have the forgemasters, which perhaps you just didn't fit in as, and the less crafting-intense nature of the human city might fit your bond with the God better.

Think about it, get back to me. If so, eliminate the 'judginess' from the starting post, and reply to it otherwise. Up early for the session, due to head off to the forge afterwards ...

Alynthar:
I realized I got you neither a healer's kit nor a surgeon's kit. Clip off the periscope, one heatstone, and two smokesticks, and you'll have an extra 10gp left (a total of 16gp, 1 sp). Healer's kit gives you a +2 to healing, and a surgeon's kit gives you another +1 when dealing with severe wounds and that sort of thing. Or, in this case, determining things ...


In the blurb I mention to Baltor, I describe starting out in the Tor, and moving to Mosval after my father's death 25 years ago for pretty much the exact reasons you described. He still has a connection to the Tor, but has not lives there in years. They left when Njorl was very young, and Lars has never been to the Tor. His sons are in Mosval. His wife is buried here. This is where his life is.

If you would rather he not be a part of the judicial system, that's fine with me. He will still be a philanthropist and problem solver for the people of his community, and will still do whatever he can to protect them.

That is the source of his break with the forgemasters: He does not craft for the sake of crafting, but for the good of the community. As skilled a craftsman as he is, his primary concern is people.

I'll make the appropriate adjustments to his background.


Are there official Homecoming names for the Dwarvish and gnomish languages?

Here are the crunch and fluff adjustments:

Character Sheet:

Horst Ironbrow
Neutral Good Dwarf Cleric of The Father of Winter-3
HP: 30
AC: 20 (+4 vs Giant Subtype)
CMB: +4
CMD: 14 (+4 vs Trip & Bullrush)

Str:14
Dex:11
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:17
Cha:12

Fortitude: +5
Reflex: +1
Will: +6
(+5 save vs Poison, Spells, and spell like effects, +2 vs Alcohol, +2 vs charm and compulsion)

Attack:
MWK Warhammer: +5 - 1d8+3/x2
Power Attack: +4 - 1d8+5/x2
Light XBow: +2 - 1d8/19-20 x2
(+1 Attack vs Orc and Goblinoids)

Traits:
Birthmark: A grey snowflake in the middle of his forehead.
Glory of Old
Iron Liver

Feats: Skill Focus: Craft: Weapons, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Steel Soul, Power Attack
Story Feat: Lost Legacy - His father was Chief Warder of Kedron's Tor.

Languages: Dwarvish, Gnomish, Ravennan, Old Ravennan

Darkvision: 60'
Stonecunning: +2 Perception for unusual stonework

Skills:
Appraise: 7
Craft: Weapons - 13*
Craft: Armor - 10*
Diplomacy - 7**
Heal - 7
Knowledge: History - 6
Knowledge: Local - 7
Knowledge: Religion - 8
Perform: Oratory - 6**
Sense Motive - 9
SpellCraft: 7

(*+2 when working with metal or stone due to Craftsman Alt. Racial Trait already included)
(**+1 for Lost Legacy already included)

Domains:
Artifice: Mending at will, damage constructs (1d6+1) 6/day
Community: Calming Touch: Heal 1d6+3 Nonlethal and Fatigued, Shaken, Sickened 6/day

Spells:
0: Detect Magic, Create Water, Stabilize, Enhanced Diplomacy
1: Forbid Action, Bane, Magic Weapon (D) Bless
2: Hold Person, Zone of Truth (D) Wood Shape

Channel Positive Energy: 2d6 4/day (DC 12)

Equipment: MWK Half Plate, Heavy Wooden Shield, MWK Warhammer, Hand Axe, Light Crossbow, (20 Bolts), Dagger

Backpack, bedroll, charcoal pencils, 5 parchment scrolls, three small sacks, 50' silk rope, one small waterproof sack, water skin, mess kit, pewter mug, pot, skillet, serving spoon, pouch of salt, pouch of black pepper, one week hard tack, 5 candles, tinder box, signet ring

Background:

Horst makes good money making quality weapons and armor for the garrison, but he also takes time to do low or no-cost blacksmithing for the regular folk. A little bit of metal on a shovel or plow can be a godsend to a farmer, and everybody needs sharp knives. He also helps train the militia (and maintain their weapons) in his free time.

He has two sons, Njorl (late adolescent - his apprentice - serious and shy) and Lars (preteen- a runner for the forge - a lighthearted and playful boy, fair haired like his mother).

His wife, Luda, died in childbirth with a stillborn daughter three years ago. He visits their grave on holidays, and before he takes an extended trip away (and again when he returns). She loved blue flowers.

His successful business, philanthropy, and noble heritage (his father's position is lost, but people remember), not to mention his empowerment by The Father, have thrust Horst into the position of community leader. People in his corner of the Hammersmith come to him for advice, to settle personal and business disputes, and to seek justice for wrongs against them, all of which Host accomplishes to the best of his ability. He has no official authority, but people trust his judgement and find him more reliable (and expedient) than the official courts. Fortunately, his son's apprenticeship is almost at and end, and he can be left to tend the forge when his father is interrupted.

Horst's father Jan (Yahn) was the chief warder of the fortress who was ousted in a scandal involving dereliction of duty (a grave misdeed among dwarves in general, and the nobility in particular). Jan came to live with Horst, Luda, and young Njorl in the Smith's Quarter, but he was a broken man. When he died 25 or so years ago, Horst took it hard that he could not protect the father who had cared for him and made him into a man, and relocated to Mosval, where dwarven smiths are in high demand. All old friends from Kedron's Tor are welcome in the Ironbrows' home (those willing to be seen with the family fallen from grace anyway).

Horst gets on well with the majority of his neighbors, taking a paternal attitude towards the community both due to his age and his dedication to The Father's values. He and his sons live comfortably, but their business does not grow except by marginal degrees due to Horst funneling much of his profits back into the community, supporting the destitute, paying off oppressive debts etc...

He does find himself at odds with some of the more unscrupulous merchants in the area from time to time: those who habitually try to cheat their fellows, or loan money at exorbitant rates to bankrupt the desperate in order to buy out their land and businesses. Being an adherent of The Father, he believes the law to be a crucial tool in protecting the people, but he is not one to allow the spirit of laws to be undermined by allowing the letter of the law to be used to oppress and exploit people. If he operated in a more affluent area this would bring him at odds with certain elements of the judiciary, but even the wealthier members of his community lack the money and influence to have him censured, much less prosecuted, due in large part to his position and popularity in Hammersmith.

They have long since stopped hiring goons as well, as they have proven ineffective in intimidating or brutalizing Horst or his family. His son Lars was once roughly "given a message" for his father while out playing with friends. The goon in question was soon found in the gutter in front of a certain counting-house with both arms broken. Though he was found on a public street in broad daylight, there were no witnesses.

Horst spares no effort to protect his community, its members, and its institutions, whether he brings his craft, his influence, or his arms into play.


The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:

I am reminded. More background and other stuff.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Do I buy both Healer's and Surgeon's kits, or just one?


Horst:
That's what I thought I remembered, but I wanted to make sure. But yeah, before (with the judge thign) Horst was kind of all things to all men - judge, holy man, smith, combat trainer (which, actually, I don't think he's really qualified to do), yadda yadda yadda. I am somewhat leery of him being considered a philanthropist; when you get busted and stripped of your position and title for treason (which is what 'dereliction of duty' falls under), whether the charge is true or otherwise, you typically get pretty much everything stripped from you, the 'you' in this case being your father. That would, however, mean that your family at that point becomes, if not destitute, at least outcast and, well, starting from scratch. A tough row to hoe, as it were, even though you can start with very little and do a good job. In any case, I'll run with it.

Dwarvish is Cho-Hec'ch; gnomish is Petchenenianach.

Alynthar: Both. Surgeon's kit is an add-on.


Nothing so grand as combat trainer. Mostly just how to maintain your city-issued polearm and wear your city-issued padded armor properly.

Philanthropist is perhaps to grandiose a word for Horst. It denotes acting with love for your fellow man, but connotes a wealthy man making grand gestures and donations and having buildings named after them. For Horst, it is just the simple things I mentioned: sharpening blades and tamping some scrap metal onto a wooden shovel or hoe for free. Giving small no-interest loans to help people being victimized by loan sharks or banks get out of trouble (I don't suppose a philanthropist would expect his money back).

He's had twenty five years to establish himself in Mosval, and in that time he's done well enough for himself with contract work from the garrison and the odd specialty job to have a set of masterwork tools in the smithy and to have fashioned a nice set of arms and armor for himself. Were he more concerned with profit, he might have done passably well for himself, but he is more concerned with the people around him than elevating himself. A Father sacrifices, after all.

As for influence, we're not even talking the whole of Hammersmith. Just one small corner. A street or two.


Once more open to application - or rather, for someone to take over an essentially undefined character. While the character is an Eberron-style changeling paladin, the only other requirement I have is that they come from south of the game-start city, Mosval.

Silver Crusade

I can make a changeling paladin.

I didn't know Bujold wrote more than the best sci fi in the Vorkosigan saga. Anyway, count me in if you need another.

Figure my character as the farmer that defends his community when needed. Plan on going for the charismatic, natural leader type.

Shadow Lodge

Homecoming changelings are not like Golarion's changelings in case you didn't check the docs. More akin to Eberron, they can change their face at will:

Changeling Race:
+2 to any one ability score
Changeling Weapon Familiarity (Naginata, Wave Blades)
Darkvision (60')
Intuitive (+2 to Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive)
Slippery Mind (+2 vs. Sleep and Charm Spells)
Minor Shape Change (any Small or Medium individual, gaining a +10 circumstance bonus - which I am considering switching to a +10 racial bonus - on Disguise checks. This change affects the body, but not the clothing or gear; also, the changeling's attributes do not change, e.g. +2 to Dex in Small form or +2 to Strength in Medium form.)
Linguist (Any language allowed, excluding Druidic.)


Now looking for two replacements - a rogue and a paladin.


Not familiar with ebberron but what are the requirements for the rogue? Also, rogue caster work?


This does not take place in Eberron; only the type of changeling is indicated, as PF has their own 'style' (i.e. the hag-born changelings).

In regards to the rogue, by preference a halfling male, but I'm flexible; other than that, no special requirements, though I'll note that the group does not otherwise have any trap finding or removing capability, so keeping that is moderately important. The one you'd be replacing was an archaeologist bard, so that's a possibility.

If you do go rogue (or archaeologist bard), but want to multiclass, I will require you to have two levels in the roguish class; it's a 'skill cheat' thing with me.


Reading up more closely, any chance of having wizard fluff but sorcerer mechanics? I really hate prepared casting, and it would be way closer to what I have in mind than being possessed. There is a learned sorcery archtype on d20pfsrd if you feel I would need to take that (though something tells me it is unlikely despite being underpowered).

I intend at this point to have 2rogue and 1 casting class (if not the spontaneous wizard I'll have to take another look at the classes). No worries about traps, I figure my character comes from the border of the wild and handles traps often.

Also, ultimate combat. I know nothing of it, so aside from the things excluded, is there anything in there that isn't optional? (d20pfsrd is my main source, but it doesn't exactly sort things by book, and for physical/pdf, I only own the core book itself, version one to boot)

You mention extra skill points twice, once including background skills and again specifically mentioning skill points, I assume the mention of skill points are the same ones from including background skill?

I am sure some of this is amswered in the 150 some odd posts, I'll work my through those tomorrow.


Fluff is always negotiable. This isn't something that was brought up before (there not being the need), but Homecoming's magic has a genetic bias to it anyhow. (If you don't have the Talent you can, after 30 years of intense study, learn how to cast cantrips and such, but it ain't what anyone would call an efficient use of your time.)

Understand that there are no actual sorcerer-style 'bloodlines'; instead, there would be certain types of magic that your innate casting is more readily adept at. Such wizards are considered sorts of idiot-savants - they have a ready knack for a few spells, but can't wrap their heads around the huge variety.

What's most important is developing a strong background.


I wouldn't mind coming up with a Pali for you, but first 2questions: who do the forlorn pray to, the dispossessed and disenfranchised, the mother or the bastard? And would you allow a moody, angst ridden minotaur?

Shadow Lodge

TheAlicornSage, you may already be considering it, but I just wanted to bring the Seeker archetype to your attention for trapfinding and disabling magical traps. In case you hadn't already seen it, that is.

EDIT: Also, regarding background skills: you get the regular two per level from the variant rule, plus a bonus 4 skill points which must be spent on Artistry, Profession or Craft skills. If you spend 3 on one skill, you can spend the fourth however you like.


For story purposes, the paladin needs to be a changeling - a human would work, but a changeling is preferred 4:1. The unwanted, etc. pray to the Bastard. By definition, however, paladins really tend not to be moody and angsty - or, interpreted, I wouldn't allow such a paladin to be a PC. (Nor is the minotaur race available at this time.)


Kubular said something about a changeling paladin?

The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:
Once more open to application - or rather, for someone to take over an essentially undefined character. While the character is an Eberron-style changeling paladin, the only other requirement I have is that they come from south of the game-start city, Mosval.

I'll have to finish reading that first post, but after that I think I can make something... I wonder if I can include some silver dragon imagery or something somehow (just for lulz) hmmm


The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:
By definition, however, paladins really tend not to be moody and angsty - or, interpreted, I wouldn't allow such a paladin to be a PC. (Nor is the minotaur race available at this time.)

you've ruined all my dreams... nevertheless, a convincing changeling paladin poses a reasonable challenge. I know you're anxious to get back into the swing so I won't ask you to wait for me, but if you can wait or, alternatively, can't find an adequate candidate in the meantime, I'll have one for you by Monday at the latest.


Dragons exist in the Homecoming world; a dragon being used in heraldry would not be unlikely. (And please remember that in HC, dragons are not color-coded for your convenience. ;) )

Otherwise, please read up on what there is; I intend on going through past posts and PMs and culling out what additional information there is in them and assemble it into more coherent campaign docs.

(And that '4 skill points' is at game start, not per level.)


Having re-read this thread, a quick revision in regards to the Paladin's race and gender: male human or female changeling only. Note that for the latter, it's a matter of birth gender; changelings can shift into either gender, even though there's one that they feel more comfortable in and self-identify as. Either way, they have to be the only child. These are actually long-term story points that are, basically, non-negotiable. (Sorry.)


A paladin gets to use trip attacks, right? (or is it too dishonorable?)
I kinda think I wanna go for felling smash...


The only thing a paladin might not use - might not - is Dirty Trick. If it defeats your opponent, then it's doing the job you signed up for.

Note that 'defeats' has multiple end-results; only one of them is 'dead'.


The google docs thing wrote:

The Diviners of the world have developed a sign language, 'Diviner's Handsign'. It is a class

language at game start, but can be learned if you find someone to teach it to you. VERY useful.

It does, however, have Kolshet as a prerequisite, as Kolshet is what it uses as a base language

(like ASL uses English).

If one of my background skill points goes into linguistics, can I pick this up?

If not, any languages popular with people from south of Mosval? Or popular with those who might travel there looking for the services of an armor-smith?
I want a fourth language but I don't which would fit best... maybe Geh­Sahn?


The language list is essentially complete for the Ravennan continent; there are a couple that are not given, but that is in part because there are very few people who know about them.

Educated people will learn Kolshet and Old Ravennan; changelings tend to learn Kolshet as a way of keeping some sort of racial cohesion. Very few people know Diviner's Handsign; it is restricted at game start for a reason. So, technically, is Romny, but Nissa has a good reasion why she has it; if your background has a good reason for it, I will allow you to learn it as a Linguistics-skill language.

Otherwise, people will learn the languages of those races which are around them, those with which they come into the most contact; the only race that has any serious level of interpenetration with human/halfling society (the two of which are, in Homecoming, pretty much permanently interrelated) is the gnomes, who have sited their Houses on pretty much every significant defensible position; in many places, Mosval being a good example, they had established a House several hundred years before humans and halflings came onto the scene.

The next most-interactive are the minotaurs of the Haelanesh Mountains (or highlands, if you want to call them that), though they are mostly to the east and southeast, around Gondahar. And while individual elves and dwarves (such as Horst) have established a place in human society, elves and dwarves as species have remained rather standoffish, with their own enclaves, towns, and whatnot, the elves moreso than the dwarves; many people go their entire lives without seeing an elf, and those who are more rural can easily do the same without seeing a dwarf. Currently, however, the other human languages - the so-called 'colony languages' - are becoming slightly significant, with Imperial and Aryindic being more common to the south and west, on par with Lesh, the language of the lizardfolk in the Valley of Mists.

Really, it depends on your background. That should come first.


The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:

The language list is essentially complete for the Ravennan continent; there are a couple that are not given, but that is in part because there are very few people who know about them.

Educated people will learn Kolshet and Old Ravennan; changelings tend to learn Kolshet as a way of keeping some sort of racial cohesion. Very few people know Diviner's Handsign; it is restricted at game start for a reason. So, technically, is Romny, but Nissa has a good reasion why she has it; if your background has a good reason for it, I will allow you to learn it as a Linguistics-skill language.

Otherwise, people will learn the languages of those races which are around them, those with which they come into the most contact; the only race that has any serious level of interpenetration with human/halfling society (the two of which are, in Homecoming, pretty much permanently interrelated) is the gnomes, who have sited their Houses on pretty much every significant defensible position; in many places, Mosval being a good example, they had established a House several hundred years before humans and halflings came onto the scene.

The next most-interactive are the minotaurs of the Haelanesh Mountains (or highlands, if you want to call them that), though they are mostly to the east and southeast, around Gondahar. And while individual elves and dwarves (such as Horst) have established a place in human society, elves and dwarves as species have remained rather standoffish, with their own enclaves, towns, and whatnot, the elves moreso than the dwarves; many people go their entire lives without seeing an elf, and those who are more rural can easily do the same without seeing a dwarf. Currently, however, the other human languages - the so-called 'colony languages' - are becoming slightly significant, with Imperial and Aryindic being more common to the south and west, on par with Lesh, the language of the lizardfolk in the Valley of Mists.

Really, it depends on your background. That should come first.

Thanks, at the time I asked I really just thought he should be educated enough for Old Ravennan and Kolshet with another language that might be handy down south.

About a half hour after I posted I had a much better idea...


Don't get married to it until you run it past me, though. If you have a great idea, write it down and spoiler-post or PM it. This is not, after all, Golarion.


sent a PM, also I was wondering about those 'called paladins'
and should I go CG or NG? (nearly always follows the law, but doesn't care for the laws that are clearly leading to a bad result?)


Consider the 'law' portion of the law/chaos to actually be 'order' instead of 'laws'. Consequently, there are no such things as non-OG (Orderly Good) paladins; at the very least, they follow the structure of the gods. To quote something I said elsewhere:

The Wyrm Ouroboros wrote:

I'm playing a LN monk (who will likely wind up LG) who is not 'laws of man' lawful, but 'personal structures and strictures' lawful, who lives his life in an orderly manner.

Truth is, one should consider it to be Good and Evil, Order and Chaos - the Paladin is a champion of Orderly Good - but good more than order. If someone is using a law to turn the screws on some poor innocent shlub, the paladin isn't going to sit back and let it happen; he's going to move in and do something so that Good is served. If he can preserve order, so much the better - but if a legal or societal stricture is being used frequently to deliberately do harm to others, it ain't something that a paladin can stand.

As well, a paladin has to be pro-choice. Good must not be enforced; it must be selected out of free will. (Evil is good with forcing you into it.) That flexibility can ennable a paladin - especially one working in a highly difficult campaign, with 'chaotic' characters - to work closely with such individuals.

You should also Very Much read two things: first, the Gods and Morality file on the Google docs page, and (in regards to the 'called' as compared to the 'taught' paladin) The Deed of Paksenarrion trilogy, by Elizabeth Moon. (And yes - in Homecoming a paladin can 'fall', the God(s) withdrawing their grace and power from them in favor of a more effective tool.) I also greatly recommend The Curse of Chalion and its immediate sequel, Paladin of Souls, for better, more expansive information about the Holy Family.


Sweet, thanks.
I like it: Rose, Original Gangster Orderly Good


Wow, a gm that doesn't think lawful means following laws?! Awesome! I've been waiting for that you know.

PS. remind me to not get interested in so many recruitments at once ever again. Takes me a while to build new characters, and I stil have three left, including this one. Time involved in joining is completely disproportionate to time involved in playing.

Now if only I get in with some of them.


Don't get carried away - if you choose orderly-lawful, you will be giving me a list of things that do and do not fit your character's structure, and I will be holding you strictly to it. The aforementioned monk (in the second 'Sacred RotRL' table) has already shown that he is acutely uncomfortable with the structure of his daily life being disturbed by a festival that's been, like, a year in the planning; I expect this sort of thing with an orderly character in this campaign as well.


would something like having a meticulously kept workshop count as character structure? could I have a slightly OCD paladin? hehehehe


No to the first, yes to the second.


So, more like daily rituals/habits?


I'm sure you're not holding your breath waiting for my submission, but just in case, please recommence respiration. I must bow out of this one, but I wish you much joy from whatever paladin you pick up. Happy gaming.


Primarily internal thought and morality processes. Understand that 'order' for a paladin can be 'I live my life strictly by the philosophy set down by Master Wujen'; it can be 'common courtesy isn't so common any more, but by god I'm going to show it even if nobody else does'. The latter, of course, would need considerable support in other ways and forms, but such a paladin would (like virtually all other paladins) not stab somebody in the back without warning (or at least, not with lethal intent, i.e. he could cosh them, but not run them through), he would be polite to his most bitter enemy, he would show honor, helpfulness, loyalty, courtesy, kindness, obedience to those who are placed in a position of authority over him (within reason), bravery, trustworthiness, reverence, friendliness ...

... y'know, a boy scout who follows the Scout Code and Law would make a pretty good paladin. Just don't be stupid about it, you know?


I tend to see lawful vs chaotic as the following pair of violinists,

A lawful violinist is the classical violin player, studies several hours at a time and generally on a regular schedule, practices via playing scales, doing research, focuses on proper technique, playing from written scores, etc.

While the chaotic violin player is the fiddler, one who learns by ear, practice by playing whatever strikes their fancy whenever and only as long as the urge strikes them, and focuses on what sounds right and to the outhouse with "proper technique."

Both ways lead to good music, but few people can handle both methods well.

Just my opinion on the matter.


It's an interesting way of thinking about it. There are any number of fairly critical issues with it, of course, but it's an interesting way of thinking about it. That said, I'd rather not have this devolve into a philosophical discussion on the topic.


Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, how do you feel about magma forges? I just remembered that might only be a Dwarf Fortress thing. Would that be a big deal/not possible/not important?


You'd have to direct me to where the information is. If it's using actual magma (instead of just being a name for it) as a heating element, then there may well be only one.

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