Hell's Vengeance (private)

Game Master Cognita

Hi all, and welcome to the thread! I look forward to creating a great game with you.

First, to recap the character creation rules:

But first, character concepts! I'll be DMPCing but I will hold off until I see what gaps (if any) there are.

For those of you who don't know, this AP opens in Longacre, which is a small town in deepest Cheliax. It's a military town, which is to say that old soldiers who haven't died but been pensioned off are sent there to be forgotten. The church of Iomedae is strong, and the place is largely peaceful.

You're there to change all that, but starting out small (this is the inverse of WotW, where you started out infamous).

I don't need a long, 10-minute background; but maybe 5 concepts that define your character and explain how they ended up who and where they are: what happened to them, how they dealt with it, what ticks them off, what turns them on, anything you think makes them worth roleplaying.

Have at it :)

Finally, this is the spiritual successor of another game that I won't link to here as I'm trying desperately to maintain some sort of plausible deniability. *cough* Expect ... weirdness. *cough*

Dotting for now as I work on a build. I'm definitely submitting The Cloaked One, but with some rather extensive changes. Leaning toward a Gnome//Ninja (or UC Rogue) for creepy darkness, illusions, and sneak attacking goodness. Honestly, a Fey Adept//Nightblade would be ideal (and I own the PDF), but I don't want to make things too complicated for you. XD

Dot..

I'm working out a Monk/Druid. Rock stupid. I can't wait.

Hi, YBD-BD! Looking forward to gaming with you.

Whack-a-Rogue: sadly, there's so much stuff out there it's getting hard to stay on top of just the stuff that Paizo has produced...

Sill sifting through avatars, BTW - this is subject to change.

And hello there.

I'm the one who is going to make this weird. Pleased to make your aquaintances.

Anyway, I already told Heca.. Cognita DM about a few concepts...the closer we get to Chaotic Evil, the more...let's call it fun...this will be.

Neutral Sylph Brawler(Snakebite Striker)/Gunslinger(Musket Master)
- This is the tame variant. Shoot with a Musket at range, then swap to Brawling(Outslug-Style-based) at close range.
Chaotic Neutral Dwarf Unchained Barbarian(Armored Hulk)/Oracle of Battle
- Not all that tame any more. Overrun people and hit them when they're down, then smack down the squishy they tried to protect. Plus divine casting when not busy raging.
Lawful Evil Tiefling Arcanist(Bladebound)/Unchained Monk, Dimensional Assaulter(Full Dimensional Line)
- Evil but stays in line(no guarantees on the black blade though). Full arcane casting, and starting with Flying Kick will zip across the battlefield. Once Dimensional Line becomes available, nothing will be save. Nothing.
Neutral Evil Vishkanya Unchained Rogue(Underground Chemist)/Sorcerer(Envenomed Bloodline)
- Now we are getting to a territory that could make people uncomfortable. Poisons are fancy in this build(3 natural sources, scaling(based on level), useful(dex, con)), and full two-weapon fighting sneak-attacks and greater invisibility always complemented each other well. Plus VERY social(if somewhat sociopathic).
Chaotic Evil Dhampir Antipaladin/Inquisitor(Spherecasting on Antipaladin Side)
- And the ultimate manifestation of all that is unholy, this guy made it his calling to go and corrupt or kill(probably the latter) all that is good in the world. Plus Stern Gaze just synergizes so well with Aura of Cowardice - as does Touch of Corruption with Gory Finish, and both with Quick Teleport from Spherecasting...

So...yeah :) Open for discussion who you want to be part of the team. Final decision on what I want is my own, of course, but I'm quite open to input.

For full enjoyment of this AP, Cognita DM recommends an Evil alignment - can be any: LE, NE or CE all accepted without discrimination :-)

I'm interested in the character at least as much as the build, BTW - my fetish focus is on role-play, not roll-play.

And hello there.

I'm the one who is going to make this weird. Pleased to make your aquaintances.

Ooooh, competition! Challenge: accepted :P

Oh, they will all be flavorful, no worries there.
I just prefer to mix interesting mechanical concepts in with the characters that further make them unique.

But for teambuilding aspects, mechanical elements seem more relevant, plus they are easy to state in a line or two and due to the framework of the rule-system, people will have an idea of the role and capabilities.
Fleshing out the background and personality is a bit more work, and I would prefer not doing that 5 times over if two concepts are not mechanically valid for the team as-is.
But I don't think you were REALLY worrying about that, were you? *smiles*

That said, you planned on a GMPC...did you have anything specific in mind, there?

I contain multitudes :-)

But to give a proper answer, nothing specific in mind yet - I'm going to see who and what you all decide to be so I can see what niche is needed, if any.

Of course, if you have a particular request, ping it my way and I'll certainly factor it in.

Hm. A bookish frail wizard/summoner maybe? *grin*

Good question, though.

That said, YBDBD seems to have settled on the Monk/Druid combo "fun with Feral Combat Training".
So we have a divine full caster/melee, or I'd expect that from the set.
YBD seems to go for a skilled type/partial caster|spherecaster.

If the Sylph is out for not being evil enough, none of my submissions cover ranged martial - and I think neither of the other 2 will.
So that would be a good aspect to pick up -
what else we'll need will depend on wether my submission will address other facettes(such as arcane full casting).
I actually did hope you had an idea in mind that would help make up my own mind :)

From a party role perspective, I'll have scouting, infiltration, and some battlefield control covered. YBDBD gets an Animal Companion, so we should be set for melee beatsticks. I'm thinking we'll need heals, and general arcane goodness. Based on that, I'm thinking the Tiefling sounds best. Full arcane casting is needed, and the Dimensional Line means excellent mobility - which synergises well with me. Grab the Fiendsight feats, and we'll be blanketing the battlefield in darkness before teleporting everywhere. *evil grin*

So okay here's my pitch.

My character is stupid. Like, REALLY stupid. She/he (haven't figured out yet) is N but will be corrupted throughout the game to NE by just mind numbing ignorance.

On the other hand, I can make them NE to start out with and make them play stupid.

Don't forget that Animal Companions and co are often left wanting in campaigns adapted for the increased power of Gestalt, though. They are FUN and good to have around, no doubt, but depending on their role as a tanky team member may demand too much of them.

It's funny because I was just pondering if I should alter the Tiefling so we don't end up with two monks, and instead go with something like a Warpriest/Fighter Two-Weapon Throwing Axe Switch-Hitter instead(Throwing Axes have some interesting peculiarities that make it work nicely, and allow highly efficient switch hitting IF a blinkback belt can be aquired.)

BUT, I did ask for input.
And we DO lack full arcane casting.
So the Tiefling Arcanist is fine, but I will likely swap out the Monk part - 20 points is too low to really provide for a multi-MAD character(monk would need dex and wisdom, caster needs int, melee needs strenght and con...).

I was considering simply going with Arcane Armor Mastery to avoid ASF and going for the Antipaladin on the other side. (Alternatively boring old Fighter...but seriously, how often does one get to play an Antipaladin...that's a powerful edge in favor of it)
Or mostly dropping the Armor Part and going with an Invulnerable Rager/Dreadnought Barbarian(to be able to cast while raging...not being able to charge and run is kind of a non-issue if you get to Dimension-Door blink around the battlefield with Dimensional Dervish)

So basically CE Arcanist/Antipaladin and NE Arcanist/Barbarian are the current variants I ponder for the Tiefling. That doubles up on Antipaladin/Barbarian from other suggestions, but then that's a non-issue since I only get to play one, anyway :)

You can't take cheetah away from me!! Lol. She will be fine I'm sure. Just a flanking buddy really.

YBD-BD - love it! Sort of the "banality of evil" thing?

Mordred - I'm not banning any alignment, so if you think you can make the sylph work, go for it. Just be aware you might not finish up as a neutral alignment :-)

I like your dhampir idea, personally, but I have a soft spot for them.

On races - should have said this earlier, but there is huge prejudice against tieflings in Cheliax. Still hammering out what that would look like, but not good. (DMPC might be a tiefling, can illustrate the racism without looking like I'm picking on a player).

Also, halflings are slaves. Please don't play a halfling.

(This represents a slight change from Cheliax as written - I'm darkening it slightly to make it more, well, Infernal I guess.)

Exactly. Human Druid/monk for the flurry of blows with natural attacks. Cheetah is a Tiger. I'm seriously considering naming this person Me....

I wouldn't take the Tiger away from you. Probably.

I may, however, threaten doing just that to get you to do things beyond your moral event horizon... *smile*
(Honestly though, thats a thing that would be agreed upon, evil group or no, I'll play fair with all party members, of course)

So, Dhampir is also in - (honestly works better with the touch of corruption for self-healing).

So it's Dhampir Antipaladin/Inquisitor (Sin Eater would probaly work nice with Blood Drinker)
or Dhampir Antipaladin/Arcanist (Bloodline Arcanist for Sanguine if allowed, or Ghoul otherwise)
or Tiefling Antipaladin/Arcanist (Bladebound as per original plan)
or Tiefling Barbarian/Arcanist (Invulnerable Dreadnought)

just to be clear: All of them would utilize Dimensional Feat Line for enhanced Mobility, and all non-Barbarian ones have Antipaladin Spherecasting.

I'll think some more but I guess we can limit to those :)
(if there is prejudice against tieflings that would probably make those less likely in such a position(more likely to have intuitive classes, or maybe one self-thought one))

I never thought I'd actually play this particular class, but it perfectly fits my concept: Fey Adept//Cabalist or Serial Killer Vigilante

Sameen works as a doctor and is always happy to help out if someone suffers an injury. She has a never-ending supply of bandages or herb compresses that she'll administer free of charge in an emergency. "Pay me back when you're able," is one of her common phrases. Her patients are often plagued by nightmares for a few days afterward, but that's just coincidence.

In actuality, The Cloaked One is a worshiper of Shax who's obsessed with fear. You see, she was born without the ability to feel strong emotions - except for fear. It's almost intoxicating. Over the years, she has learned to hide this fact about herself very well and can generally pass as a normal functional member of society. Still, the almost-tangible need to feed on fear is only growing stronger, and it's only a matter of time before The Cloaked One does something truly horrible.

Favorite Creature: boogeyman
Favorite Colors: black and crimson
Known Quirk: regularly changes eye/hair color via prestidigitation
Vigilante Identity: cloaked figure surrounded by shadows
Alignments: NG/NE
Campaign Trait: Amoral Mercenary

EDIT: @mordredoffairy - I like the Antipaladin//Arcanist combos better.

So basically you are telling me Sameen would be all over my character if it's an Antipaladin *smug grin* I mean, I can always consider you an "enemy", Chaotic Evil and that...just make sure I don't get carried away with the choking.
Too soon?

Me is into choking. Other people, but still.

@Mordred: Heh. I forgot AntiPaladins got that. XD All the more reason to hang out with you.

Mordred - looks good so far! Sanguine bloodline is Paizo, right? If so, it's allowed.

YBD-BD - Me likey! XD

Whack a Rogue - Sameen again, huh? ^_^ At least I have some idea what to expect.

Ok, doesn't look like there's an out and out skill monkey, or much in the way of ranged. Something to think about DMPC-wise.

I'm not making decisions yet because things change. Keep the ideas coming, I like what I'm reading!

This is gonna be fun.

Oh, one more thing to think about: can you let me know what you want from this campaign - a goal (more than one is fine!) that you have as a player and/or for your character.

Don't need the answer right away, but something to start thinking about now for later.

And the Dhampir Antipaladin/Arcanist is the winner. I'll work out the details as soon as I can.

With the Dimensional Feat Chain and Arcane Armor Training stuff, I'm already quite Feat-starved, so Fiendsight would have been off the table - and the self-healing via negative energy simply is more efficient, also because no extra provisions will be needed to keep me going(I mean I will be self-sufficient regarding that)

I will check how things will work out with attributes/traits/etc, so thats not a final lock-in(maybe due to MAD and possible synergy a sorcerer would be more effective than a int-based caster - vs the added flexibility of being able to do prepared casting- as you say, things can change.)

regarding goals, I'll include those in the 10-minute background(I'll do that anyway because I personally feel it helps me think about certain aspects I might otherwise neglect.)

@Sanguine: It's the wildblooded variant of Undead Bloodline, and yes, by Paizo. Usually wildblooded are not available for stuff like the arcanist archetype enabling a bloodline, because technically "wildblooded" is an archetype of sorcerer. But in this case...Sanguine is the Vampiric aspect, which fits a Dhampir better than vanilla undead - so it takes a minor houserule/handwaiving, which is why I asked.

Just out of curiosity though, GM: where do you stand on psychic casting? Specifically wondering about the possibility of picking up Psychic Bloodline Arcana via Blood Arcanist - eliminating somatic components and replacing them with emotion components would save feats and swift actions better used elsewhere. But I'll not even consider that if you prefer "vanilla" casting.

Me is work in progress. Me needs money for armor for Cheetah and Me. Here is Me... For Now...

As for goals I want Me to have a friend. Like a real friend. I know it sounds stupid but she doesn't realize she doesn't have friends. I want her to have a true friend besides her tiger to satisfy the hole in her heart. As other things come up Ill let you know. :)

What's our starting gold allowance? I'm done except for that.

@Sanguine: It's the wildblooded variant of Undead Bloodline, and yes, by Paizo. Usually wildblooded are not available for stuff like the arcanist archetype enabling a bloodline, because technically "wildblooded" is an archetype of sorcerer. But in this case...Sanguine is the Vampiric aspect, which fits a Dhampir better than vanilla undead - so it takes a minor houserule/handwaiving, which is why I asked.

Got it. Not a problem, I'm happy to houserule it in.

Just out of curiosity though, GM: where do you stand on psychic casting? Specifically wondering about the possibility of picking up Psychic Bloodline Arcana via Blood Arcanist - eliminating somatic components and replacing them with emotion components would save feats and swift actions better used elsewhere. But I'll not even consider that if you prefer "vanilla" casting.

Gotta be honest - when I said earlier that I barely have time to keep up with the stuff Paizo is producing, this is where it comes in. I've not read any of the psychic rules at all, so I've no idea what the "emotion components" even look like. (As an aside, looks like some of the psychic spells are way, way overpowered.)

If you go with Spherecasting instead, you can pick your own drawbacks, so if you don't want somatic casting then you don't have to take it.

As for goals I want Me to have a friend. Like a real friend. I know it sounds stupid but she doesn't realize she doesn't have friends. I want her to have a true friend besides her tiger to satisfy the hole in her heart.

D'aaw. DMPC can be her friend! S/he is a work in progress right now.

What's our starting gold allowance? I'm done except for that.

Great! Start with 150 gp.

Actually, that brings up a good topic: loot.

We'll be using WBL, so when you hit 2nd lvl you'll get 1,000 gp worth of stuff. WBL for 3rd level is 3,000 so when you get to 3rd level you'll get another 2,000 gp (the difference between 3rd and 2nd); WBL for 4th level is 6,000 so when you get there you'll get another 3,000; and so on.

We won't care where it comes from - scavenged from dead enemies, given as a reward, whatever. If you want to save it up for something you can't afford right now, that's good too.

Obviously this makes the item crafting feats more attractive; DMPC might take some, depending on how subservient s/he is feeling and how many feat slots s/he has available.

Got it. For the protocol, I did not intend to use Psychic Spells anyway :)
Just the casting mechanic, which would have been supremely strong here by itself.

Somatic => Emotion(cannot cast at all if affected by a non-harmless spell with emotion or fear descriptor - nasty in that the countermeasures for that are often spells)
Verbal => Thought(Concentration checks +10 unless you spend a move action to focus yourself first, making standard actions into full round-actions and all but forbidding longer casting times.)

But I'm all good, just wanted to know if it was an option - it's off the list :)
Regarding Spherecasting, I considered, but then, the Antipaladin side will use Spherecasting anyway, so... :)

Will we still be getting the loot in the dungeons and such? Paizo adventure paths give items that are useful for upcoming fights in loot. Just wondering how WBL works.

Heh. My experience is, they give out random crap that's no use to man or beast, but maybe that's just me.

The way it will work is, I'll announce at at a suitable time "level up!" and we'll level up, loot and all.

Aye, there's also the question of consumables.
If I spend money to "find" scrolls so I can add them to my spellbook, is it gone? Or will it return on the next milestone?
Prepared casting gets a lot less fancy if every single spell added permanently reduces my character wealth-

That is, at 4th level, does our wealth "snap" to 6000, or is it previous wealth+3000(difference between level 3 and 4).

Usually, consumables should not permanently reduce character wealth(to encourage their use), but if we simply go to default wealth levels, that would allow some reckless spending. I mean, I always WANTED to ride into a city on a chariot pulled by a dozen naked halfling slaves bleeding from countless whip lashes.
But at Level 3 already(because I have nothing better to spend it on and it comes back anyway)?

Anyway, please clarify :)

Also, very much still a work in progress(especially the name is er...a project name), but hey, things are falling into place.

It's previous wealth plus the new amount, to avoid exactly that sort of deficit spending.

But I will throw in some consumables as we go along, to ease the pain :-)

Apart from the Worldwound, Golarion doesn't yet have a concept of sub-prime... *grin*

I think the WBL question also relates to "loot drops." If we rob a tannery and kill the security, can we loot their corpses and commandeer their weapons/armor/magic items/etc? Or does it all vanish upon death aside from the occasional consumable?

Me: OK, you broke out of Branderscar, well done, you killed... 13 guards plus the sergeant plus the warden, so that's 1 masterwork longsword, 13 longswords, 13 chain shirts, 1 wand of CLW (15 charges), +1 holy dagger none of you Evil types can use, and a spellbook with spells x, y, and z.

You: ok, we'll take a longsword and chain shirt each, and Fighter will take the masterwork longsword, Cleric will grab the wand and Wizard will take the spellbook. And the rest of it...

Me: let us never speak of it again.

Makes sense. Will we still be able to accumulate disposable income in between levels, or will all buying/selling have to be done at level-up? YBDBD is concerned that we may (for example) have an urgent need for tanglefoot bags but be unable to get them because we haven't gained a level yet.

Im finished with my character, so Im ready to go! And yes that is my concern.

Well, technically that should be a non-issue. You could always "buy" some gems, platinum pieces, or other cash-equivalent goods you could liquidize(carrying around 500 gold is not fun).

Or, you know, we could go into the store and requisition them for the glory of the empire. Only a heretic rebel would object to that, and those will be slain on the spot. *smile*

That said, I am fine with a "fixed Wealth", but I would very much appreciate a "flexible allowance" that slowly refills.

Say whatever amount of the WBL we have not used in permanent assets is set aside as allowance, and each week(example), "refills" by the higher of (50GC*Character Level or 1% of the WBL) or something - we can buy extra stuff, bribe people, go buy halflings, whatever, and not worry about it. But we can't be wasteful with it because we may need it, or want to save up for more expensive consumable items.
But we'll never be truly stuck without funds, AND it means we can't fully use the WBL if we want disposable funds, so it's not a complete freebie either. Something like that maybe?

Yes, disposable income will be available. Fear not :)

"I think I'm all set to go."

"Me too!"

Cloaked One: background seems to be WotW specific. I don't need a complete rewrite, but can you let me know what you/your character wants from this campaign?

Also - can you let me know a particular spot where your character goes in her vigilante (as opposed to her social) identity? Need this for the open to the AP.

Thanks!

Working on DMPC. If you have any ideas/requests, let me know asap

Sorry about that. I'm reusing an old alias and forgot to change the backstory. Should be good now.
Re: character goals - become a favored servant of Shax and/or become feared across the nation

Re: 'haunting grounds' - I'm not familiar with the geography of Longacre, so let's go with a creepyish part of town. Maybe a graveyard or something? Since we're not supposed to be notorious or infamous yet, I figure she's still early on in the creation of The Cloaked One identity, and she's in the process of figuring out what she hopes to accomplish with it. If you're needing someone to recruit her (that Cimri person from the Player's Guide?), come after dark and look for someplace particularly shadowy. XD

Is that enough?

That works! Thanks.

And I'm eliminating Cimri from this game. For one, there's already a DMPC and two is too many. For second, she's basically there as a cypher to help those PCs who might be unfamiliar with evil games and not quite know how to go about it. You don't have that problem. [/understatement]

One more thing - I'm planning to use the Feat Tax Rules which mean that combat expertise, power attack and deadly aim, as well as weapon finesse, become options instead of feats.

The combat maneuver feats are also simplified slightly.

I like it a lot, but if anyone has concerns/thoughts/comments, let me know.

Awesome! I'll swap out my feat, then. Pretty sure I'll be starting the Haunted Gnome tree, but I'll check my notes.

Great! Just waiting on details for Dhampi, and then we're good to go.

And so it begins...

I think I'm mechanically set, I'll just have to finish up my background etc. I had a short night of sleep yesterday so not sure how much longer I'll be up today(also need to get 2 or 3 posts into games), but I'll be done by tomorrow with that. Otherwise, all set...

I made some sub-optimal choices considering we'll have a full party with gestalt, but I think we'll be fine regardless. Pity Butterfly Sting is for Desnians only, would have tried to talk either of you into picking it up for some wholesome sLaughter ^_^