I see you have a few unidentified items. Should anybody think to ask Harrolayne to give them a go...
cloak
arrow
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Thanks, they are
Cloak of Resistance +1
3 +1 vermin bane arrows
I'm in no hurry. Summer is when things usually slow down a bit in PBP as people go on vacations.
Hey All - I'm back from vacation overseas and never did once get to the laptop, so my plans to post were a bit ambitious. Catching up though and should be able to get posting again by tomorrow.
I'm at the start of my long day, but I should have time to get in a post. Now that the boar is friendly, I'll see if I can convince him to relocate, although the charm only lasts 2 hours, so that might be a temporary solution.
Edit: Since Saniana has some time while the boar is charmed, could she take 20 on a wild empathy check and make the friendly attitude long term?
i'm sorry that ive been MIA lately, time seems to not be on my side. im going to make a much better effort to post.
Beorn is willing to try to help "raise" this creature "right" but I am unsure if he can be a strong enough influence on him while adventuring unless the little dragon comes with him, and that is not really reasonable. Thoughts? Having a dragon friend as we build a kingdom would be ever so cool.
I read a little about green dragons in one of the books on dragons and it says of all the chromatic dragons, they are the most likely to be affected by diplomacy. They are usually lawful and they can be raised into a non-evil alignment, but it would take some work.
In character, Harrolayne or Kas would most likely know such things. Saniana doesn't have knowledge (arcana). Harrolayne does speak draconic, so that might help the diplomacy if she speaks to the dragon in its own language.
There is still the mystery of how the egg got into the forest without anyone noticing an adult dragon. Perhaps when we examine the body of the victim.
I strongly suspect this guy stole the egg from a nest somewhere and was headed to civilization to sell it when it hatched and ate him.
Harrolayne can certainly act as an interpreter, but with her +1 Diplomacy bonus, we don't want her as the dragon tamer. :)
Seems like the dragon speaks perfectly good common, however.
I am going on travel for work tomorrow through Thursday and then directly to Dragon Con for the weekend. I'll have my laptop and will try to keep up through Thursday but after that my time will likely be eaten by the con. Will be home late Monday September 4. Bot me as needed.
My apologies to the group, as I've been dealing with a bit of malaise on writing and writer's block in the past month or so. Which has nothing to do with this game in particular, but just a combination of RL blahs and disruptions. Irma didn't help either, but things are getting back to a bit of normalcy and I feel a bit more of the writing bug again.
We seem to be keeping everything as group funds and purchasing what will help individuals on a case by case basis. I'm okay with that, but we might want to keep track of what items have been purchased for whom so we can be sure the money gets spent fairly, once we have more to spend, that is. If we need funds, we can see about selling the boots of the cat or the cloak of resistance, if no one has his/her heart set on using them.
Putting this into discussion, because I myself don't have a good sense of what we really have had in terms of funds to split, or even if we've allocated funds to our characters in the past (in terms of reward, prior gains from bandit treasure sales, etc.). I know I'm in possession of the Ring of Protection +1, so that's a biggie, but I've not really attempted to buy or upgrade anything on my PC otherwise.
Would you want/need me to go through the entirety of the thread and put down all the prior treasure gains and claims, with the purpose that we can then split proceeds at certain intervals for each of us to add coin to our individual character profiles? I'm not a big spreadsheet guy, but I can try to get an accounting down that we can all weigh in on and scrub up.
EDIT: I can go through and put in the treasure from each main encounter or story event, so that it's easier to see historically when we got it and how we split it out and such. Events that we've made picks on and then divvied out the rest we can leave farther down the sheet as historical, that sort of thing.
I am not too bothered by what you guys do, if there is a way I can make things easier let me know and I can adjust my style.
If you click on the campaign, in the long description I've added the Item tracker.
One way we could do things is on that Item tracker we have each individual Player and then just list everything on their character?
In my previous runelords group there were 5 of us as players and we always divided the gold by six, keeping that sixth portion as the "group funds".
Oh yeah, I've been looking at the Item List (google) sheet, and I think that's definitely where we can keep all of this. It's a great medium, simply that I don't know what it represents.
I profess that I'm just confused as how we got to where we are, and it's probably necessary at this point for one of us players to be keeping track of all the loot and gains and what-not, including what we did in the past for reference. We got some great stuff from Tuskgutter and recently the Boggards and I'm not sure how we got things from Bokken, so that's an example of my fault for not really paying attention. I'd hate to think we have items we should be using or assumed someone put on their character sheet and hasn't, so it gets lost.
For example, is the combined group gold (624gp, 79sp) on the Item List sheet a current tally of group funds from the beginning up to-date, minus expenses taken out (buying Bokken's potions for example)? I see that Beorn has a reference on his sheet for 150gp reward funds...did I miss that each of us should have added that to our sheets? I have no idea myself, so that may be part of the problem in my own head.
In other words, I've not been paying attention as I should have, but am willing to dive into it now and shore that up as a contribution to the campaign here.
So just as an example, I've added to the sheet a couple of historical references of the Spider encounter, whereupon Kas and Beorn claimed the ring and the mw greataxe for use - I figured I could go through and try to do all of that from the entire campaign thread, giving us the history of our loot gains and such. If we did have any treasure splits (where gold should have been allocated to individual character profiles), I can put that there too. Would that be okay?
I've been quite bad at paying attention to loot in this AP. Its partly because my character is not loot focused at all. I'd appreciate your efforts to sort out past loot and help track loot in general Kas. I am not sure I have the bandwidth. This entire week I have been spending 12 hours + a day at a hospital where my mother is recovering from a minor heart attack.She is 79 and is just very slow at recovering.
So many different ways to do loot division. I my home game the party sets aside a half share of money for party needs. Its not a bad idea at all to have a party fund to buy group healing and such with.
What I seem most of on the boards is a somewhat socialistic approach to loot division where items are handed out based on needier best match to a character and gold is divided equally regardless of who got what loot. This is fine with me, especially with Beorn, but is never my choice of division.I prefer a more forced equitable distribution where Beorn might not get a cut of gold if he got the +1 great sword we just found. If you are already tracking look on a spreadsheet its pretty easy to track loot value too.
On group I was in took this to the extreme and did not divide gold but kept all treasure as party treasure. Items were handed out but "charged" to players. Whenever we sold any loot and got more gold the person with the lowest gold piece gear total could buy something for their character, spending up to half the total gold. Then the next lowest person could buy something. This strange system actually maximized party potential as instead of 4 characters saving for stay a stat boost item and having 1000 gp each, one character could go ahead and buy it. I am not proposing we do this so much as just wanting to mention it as an interesting alternative. Maybe too much accounting, but there is an advantage.
Well I have a bit of time this weekend (yay!), so I'll at least go through the entirety of the gameplay thread and put down all the referenced treasure and items that I can find, giving my best guess as to where or whom it might belong to. That at least gives us a starting point as to how our gang might want to handle loot distribution and all that good stuff.
Starting that now in the list, so if you see something that you know is not on your sheet you can amend that...or if it's not allocated correctly you can post that here and we'll correct it up. Fun!
Hi All - I have gone through the thread and modified the Item Sheet to show what we have so far - pretty much everything is represented there with some color-coding to help show what's finalized (grey) versus what we still need to finalize (light yellow). Some good stuff so far!
It's from before her time, but Harrolayne can use the obscuring mist scroll.
I tend to think of scrolls and potions as party loot, rather than shares. Everybody benefits from the wizard casting a scroll or the fighter drinking a blur potion, etc.
Wow Kas, you did amazing work on that item list! Looks remarkable!
Thanks! It was pretty fun actually to see everything we had gained and went through.
I put Harrolayne in for the scroll, and Kas for the staff-wand...and obviously if anyone else wants to put their names in for these and/or other unclaimed items, I think now's as good of a time as any. That cloak can really benefit someone!
So the general goal is to work the yellow-colored items and get them to where they are either claimed or agreed-upon to sell for group split. We got lots of yellow - hey look and even 2 alchemist's fire flasks from waaaay back at the first Oleg's fight that we can now use for mites! Once claims are agreed and they're added to character profiles, I'll grey-mark & strikethrough them and move them into the historical section.
I got a bit preoccupied with trying to create a Starfinder character but I'll go over the list later today. Thanks for the work on items and sorry for my slow response.
FYI: Saniana is cool with Harrolayne claiming any items she can use, even if before her time.
Beorn is cool with Harrolayne claiming any items she can use, even if before her time as well. But I do have to point out the glitch in your logic. You said: " tend to think of scrolls and potions as party loot, rather than shares. Everybody benefits from the wizard casting a scroll or the fighter drinking a blur potion, etc."
This is really true of every item we find and hand out to a party member. If we find a magic sword and give it to Beorn I assure you that everyone will benefit. If we find a belt of dex and give it to Rosetta, ditto. I hope to be generous but the only way to track wealth is to just track it. That said its fine for the party to own some things too - mostly healing I think.
Beorn is cool with Harrolayne claiming any items she can use, even if before her time as well. But I do have to point out the glitch in your logic. You said: " tend to think of scrolls and potions as party loot, rather than shares. Everybody benefits from the wizard casting a scroll or the fighter drinking a blur potion, etc."
This is really true of every item we find and hand out to a party member. If we find a magic sword and give it to Beorn I assure you that everyone will benefit. If we find a belt of dex and give it to Rosetta, ditto. I hope to be generous but the only way to track wealth is to just track it. That said its fine for the party to own some things too - mostly healing I think.
Yes, but with the cheap consumables, the problem is that they invariably become nickel and dime parts of the shares. Even in the early levels, they add a lot of book-keeping for very little value. Plus a lot of the time one might take a healing potion, only to use it on another party member who goes down.
That's just why I like to spread out scrolls to the people who can use them, and potions evenly without worrying about their exact values. But I'm not the one keeping track of money in this campaign, so I don't really have skin in the game.
Since I come from more of the "party members pick what really fits the need of their characters and we'll group split the rest" type of playstyle, I don't think I'm well-suited to suggest what system of fair distribution we should use.
I do think for what we have right now and what we want to purchase for this mite expedition, that we should:
1) put in for any unclaimed items that a PC "needs" to be more combat viable, and give it a defined time limit (say from now through Friday)
2) allow for those items to be claimed, resolving multiple claims of the same item fairly
3) ensure each PC puts claimed items on their profile for player/DM reference
4) allow the rest to be sold and part of group split
5) add a declared group split distribution to occur, so that each player knows what they can spend on "stuff" with a Restov trip
Sounds good? And for the love of Shelyn, someone claim that cloak of resistance, and someone claim that mithral dagger! I already have the ring of protection, so I'm not gonna do it :)
EDIT: We can decide on certain items being "group" for now (like the invisibility potion), but I say it still needs to end up on a individual's character profile with (group) in parentheses. Otherwise, it's not fair to the DM in terms of who had it if it's needed in an ASAP situation...or we forget about it entirely...
Kas, the item list looks fantastic! If okay with the group i'd like to claim the boots of the cat that was found in Myvas' cave. and the 1 potion of cure light wounds from fight at the ford
Here are some general rambling thoughts.
I think we have enough potions of Cure Light for each of us to claim one.
Beorn already has the masterwork axe, though long term he will return this to the party and eventually get a masterwork great sword. Looks like he also has a potion of Cure Light and an antitoxin as indicated by the spreadsheet.
I recommend that someone claim that mithril dagger and will take it if no one else claims it. Also Beorn would love to have the cloak of resistance if others are hesitant to claim it. But this is something that anyone can use and all would benefit from. Unless I hear a protest I'll claim the cloak.
Unsure what we can do with the meteorite but am against selling it. Beorn would love one day to have an adamantine weapon.
Seems like we had some reason to keep the 8 bottles of liquor in polished wooden case but for the life of me I cannot recall why.
I recommend we sell a few of the potentially useful items as we need the gold to get the gear we actually need. But lets not sell any healing items or alchemicals.
If we have someone who can disable devices they should take the MW thieves tools.
I fear the MW sickle is the wrong size for Saniana so we should sell it.
I am tempted to keep a MX thowing axe but we are better off with the money so sell them both.
Thinking it through I am not in favor of either waiting for supplies to be delivered before we attack the mites or of spending a lot of money on cold iron weapons. Beorn does enough damage that he can bypass their DR and he can loan a Cold Iron dagger to someone else. Lets go kill some mites. :)
Out of character, mites are like the weakest creature in the game, I'm talking the basic Rat familiar is on par for the durability of mites.
I finally got a moment to go over the loot spreadsheet. The only item Saniana would care to claim would be the Masterwork Sickle, since she has a non-MWK sickle now. She could also use the masterwork backpack since she's near her carrying capacity and could use a little extra. It's more cost efficient to keep an item than to sell it for money to buy something else.
She also has the music box worth 90 gp which is a vanity item and so if we are dividing gold, consider that in the total and she'll take 90 of her share as the box.
Useful potions like the Pass without a Trace, Jump, and Invisibility should be kept with the party and used when it will help the party achieve a goal.
I'd suggest we give the cloak of resistance to whoever has the lowest save average or else choose someone at random. Everyone can benefit from that and we'll probably find more. Harrolayne appears to have the lowest saves on average.
I'm cool with any of the systems for dividing loot. As I said before, priority items can go to those who can use them and the rest can be available for people to use to buy items each can use, with the assumption that no individual draws more funds than his/her share of the total, at least in the long haul.
The method I think is both fair and flexible is keep track of the value of items kept (full value) and of items sold for cash (half value). Divide that total by the number of PCs. If a PC keeps an item found, subtract the full value of that item from the his/her share.
I modified the loot sheet to include a column on the right with the value of each entry. If it is an item that was simply taken by a party member, the full value of the item was put in this column. If it is an item that will be sold, then the half value was entered.
To the right of that is an indicator of the party member who claimed the item (first initial). If no one has claimed the item, the letter P was entered for Party. To the top right I did a total of the worth of all items in the column I added. This divided by 5 would be the shares of this for each PC.
Below that I subtracted the value of claimed or purchased items of each party member from the PC share.
This shows how much of the unclaimed loot each PC can spend.
This is just a bookkeeping service to give us an idea of how the loot has been divided and which PCs might not be getting their full share and which might be over their share. I suggest we just keep track of this as a way to keep tabs on how the loot is being spent and distributed, not as a hard and fast determination of who gets what.
When a PC wants to use some of his share of the shared loot to purchase something he or she will use, there is a column at the right for purchases and another column to indicate who made the purchase. The table at the top right then keeps track of those purchases and subtracts the amount from the PC's share. Anything like the wand of cure light wounds or healing potions that will be shared as needed don't need to be accounted for or if purchased can be charged to the party rather than the individual who carries the item.
So looking at the results of all this, if Harrolayne or Saniana wanted to get something like a masterwork weapon, a wand, or magic armor, they would probably have the funds to do it, provided others are okay with them drawing from the party funds to do it.
We could set aside a portion of the total value of the shared loot to save for future needs.
I might make a new version of the loot sheet if this system seems helpful, just to make it more compact and flexible going forward.
I would also just say that you guys can divvy up by need, sell what you don't and I'll tell you to just trust me to take care of you guys and drop stuff I know a player needs
I'm going to be camping Friday through Sunday. 'Bot me if necessary.
Yeah, I think it still comes down to what system of distribution or accounting the party wants to use going forward, which is why we're stuck a bit in this.
Based on the discussion posts the past week, I'm going to update the sheet (working very carefully not to botch Clebsch's added calculations heh), and at least show what the group splits could be with the "real" treasure and sold items.
I'm going to show the claims on the staff-wand as Kas and the mithril dagger as Beorn, and the other consumable magics I'll put as truly Group with Kas holding on to them for now (I'll mark them as such in my profile). So working to get all yellow-marked items as grey-marked and ready to finish out, with the "final" completion contingent on players actually adding items to their character profiles.
All righty then! Here's what we have as of today...
I think we have truly what the splits and treasure would be from a "real" perspective, with all items claimed or split as treasure, including what would be going to Restov in the next Oleg caravan run.
The PC Share Totals reflect that...and is one way to measure who gets what, but obviously do not take into account the value of claimed (mostly magic) items. It's the "real" pure treasure and goods sold and split based on PC's that were there for that event. If you look at it that way, there are the original four (Beorn, Kas, Rose, San) that gain the most (547gp, 8sp, 8 cp), followed by Harrolayne (107gp, 6sp, 9cp) by virtue of coming in later to the party. The only thing that I think I haven't sorted out in this split are the Bokken's potions and Oleg antitoxins that were "purchased" by some of the PC's, as I couldn't sort out if those were bought with presumed treasure splits or from original starting funds (probably the former).
Clebsch's accounting method shows the other reality, that of the equality of the claimed items relative to the overall item/treasure gain. If we want to be precise it doesn't factor in prior PC's (Hama, Giacomo), though in terms of understanding active PC equality we're not really interested in the priors.
I don't want to mess up Clebsch's formulas on the sheet (and I don't want to add in the distributed treasure splits on their own line items as it would double-count the treasure in terms of the overall); if we took the "real" treasure splits as-is, then from a fairness perspective, I think we'd see:
* that Kas followed by Beorn would be way in the lead
* that Rose being closer to break-even
* that Harrolayne followed by San would be trailing way behind
So I guess the question is, is that fine or not fine for now? We need to buy goods from Restov and equip for the mites expedition, so do the "real" splits occur and then Kas and Beorn give over cash to San and Harrolayne to get those accounting values closer to neutral?
I am good with all of this. I do want to state again that Beorn will gladly give up the Mithral dagger as he will likely never use it unless he fights a devil or were. It is a masterwork dagger so someone who uses such a blade might want to claim it. But if no one claims it he will offer to buy it at half price from the group. Its worth 500 so he would offer 250 from his gold share.
I have added the 107gp and change to her sheet, but there's nothing she's interested in buying at this time, save a few more pieces of canvas for painting, and to ask Oleg to sell her completed painting.
Her Craft painting check on this work was 22, if that helps determine how much Harrolayne could get for it (if anything).
Looks like the craft rules has it at an amount equal to 1/2 your check but that seems lame so I'm going to use the Pathfinder Society Rules.
And that way you guys can earn a little extra gold faster
5 1 gp
10 5 gp
15 10 gp
20 20 gp
25 50 gp
30 75 gp
35 100 gp
40 150 gp
From the standpoint of the formula's I added, it would be better to add new treasures at the bottom rather than at the top. But I'll use Kas's suggested resolution of party splits and create a new spreadsheet that I think we can use going forward. It will have a way for us to indicate who claims or possesses items for the purposes of who has what, but it will also do the calculation I would suggest we maintain as a way to gauge relative balance of treasure division.
I'll provide a link to my shared drive and the GM can put a post to it in the header if desired.
I'd suggest we take Kas's apportionment as provisionary, allowing us a rough sense of what we could spend if we want to put in orders for the next caravan run, which I'm assuming is how we'll arrange for purchases. Perhaps Oleg has an agent he trusts to fairly sell his goods and to purchase items he needs.
The only thing Saniana wants right now is a cold iron scimitar to start building out a collection of weapons that have materials that will penetrate various DRs. No need to wait for that before setting out to deal with the mites, since they have only a little DR and very few hit points.
For now, Oleg just heads to Restov by himself for now. He has two guards that watch the trading post for him. He may take one with him to Restov along with his older horse.
Let's build some shopping lists, let's just assume you guys each have 547 gold pieces to spend.
OK. With those numbers here is what I am thinking for Beorn. Comments welcome.
He has the masterwork greataxe that the party found. He would prefer a greatsword but functionally they are not different enough for him to pay an upgrade price. One is a X2 19-20 crit that does 2d6 and the other is a X3 20 cirt that does a d12. Functionally about the same. So he keeps the axe and sells the sword for 25 gp. Likewise he wants better armor and can sell his starting armor for 25 gold, but not until the replacement armor comes in. But that gives him 597 to work with. That will not quite get him into heavy armor so he will with a masterwork breastplate for 350 gold. Its only 1 more point of AC but the masterwork quality reduces Armor check penalty by 1 as well. This will be Beorn's armor until he can afford full plate. for 200 more he could make it Agile but I am not sure its worth it.
So he will order:
1 Masterwork Breastplate 350 gp
2 alchemist's Fire 50gp
2 Alchemist Acid 20gp
2 Vermin Repellent 10 gp
1 Healers Kit 50 gp
1 Surgeon's tools 20gp
50 cold iron arrows 5 gp
1 Cold Iron Morningstar 16 gold
Total = 521 gp
So I have 547 gold
I don't have a ton to sell
I'll order a new fancy bow I guess, I don't need a ton else right now.
Masterwork Composite Longbow (+1) = 500 gold
For good measure maybe picking up 50 cold iron arrows for 5 gold wouldn't be such a bad idea
And 1 Smoke Arrow, its from the advanced players guide. Leaves a trail of smoke, might be good for like signals or something. Its 10 gold for 1 arrow
Looks like it would take Oleg 4 days to get to Restov, a day to shop and then 4 days to come back so, 9 days total.
Of course you don't have to aventure that whole time, you could take a week off and practice your craft/performs stuff like that and try and make some money or something!
Harrolayne would purchase supplies to scribe scrolls and to scribe spells along with some scrolls to put into her spell book. Just need to consider...
She'll buy scrolls of colour spray, unseen servant, and endure elements, and the supplies to scribe those.
yes
yes
no, by 1 boooo
Harrolayne fails to scribe unseen servant this time, but will ruminate over it and try agin in a week. (95 gold spent)
I'll say she bought 200 gp worth of scroll-making materials, which is enough to scribe 16 1st-level scrolls.
Other than the cold iron scimitar, the main thing Saniana would like would be some first level druid spell scrolls for spells that are useful but difficult to predict a need for, allowing her prepared spells to be focused on combat situations. Some spells she might like a scroll for would be the following:
Air Bubble
Ant Haul
Aspect of the Nightengale
Call Animal
Charm Animal
Detect Aberration
Detect Snares and Pits
Gentle Breeze
Heightened Awareness
Monkey Fish
Read Weather
Touch of the Sea
These would cost a total of 300 gp. Maybe when I level up, I'll take scribe scroll feat to facilitate this in the future.
The only other items would be silver weapon blanch to treat some sling stones so she can deal damage to creatures with DR/silver.
Other than the cold iron scimitar, the main thing Saniana would like would be some first level druid spell scrolls for spells that are useful but difficult to predict a need for, allowing her prepared spells to be focused on combat situations. Some spells she might like a scroll for would be the following:
Air Bubble
Ant Haul
Aspect of the Nightengale
Call Animal
Charm Animal
Detect Aberration
Detect Snares and Pits
Gentle Breeze
Heightened Awareness
Monkey Fish
Read Weather
Touch of the SeaThese would cost a total of 300 gp. Maybe when I level up, I'll take scribe scroll feat to facilitate this in the future.
The only other items would be silver weapon blanch to treat some sling stones so she can deal damage to creatures with DR/silver.
If you provide the casting, Harrolayne can do the actual scribing. Save your feats for something else.
If you provide the casting, Harrolayne can do the actual scribing. Save your feats for something else.These would cost a total of 300 gp. Maybe when I level up, I'll take scribe scroll feat to facilitate this in the future.
The only other items would be silver weapon blanch to treat some sling stones so she can deal damage to creatures with DR/silver.
I had not realized the scroll could be scribed by someone other than the one who knows/prepares the spell. That will save money and we can assume we spend down time while in between exploration sessions. As I read the rules, it would cost 12.5 gp per scroll and take 1 day for each scroll. There nothing urgent about having these, so we don't need to delay the mission to the mites lair, although I suppose there is no rush to get to the mites either.
If we are waiting for the trade mission of Oleg to get back, I expect there will be quite a few days for scribing, provided Harrolayne has the materials on hand.
Edit: Obviously, this is low priority and if Harrolayne has more urgent things she wants to do with down time, she need not do the druid scrolls until her own work is done.
Unfortunately, I used up all her scribing materials in character creation, so unless Olaf had some on hand, they'll have to wait.
I'd rather go take care of the mites now and not wait 9 days for Oleg to return. Someone can borrow Beorn's cold iron dagger if they like.
Okay, I can move us forward and get us moving toward the Mite cave, it really isn't too much of a crazy challenge, I think.
Kas if you want to provide your grocery list, just drop it in anytime, we'll say you were able to get it to Oleg before he left.