^ I tend to work it this way too, even though it isn't actually RAW. It's a holdover from previous editions I think.
Personally, I think the best house rule is to take the "Concentration" part out of the duration. That way it's just always on. When someone or something evil comes within 60 feet the Paladin gets a "ping". They might not know exactly where it's coming from, but they know it's there. Then they can start using those Move actions on things to try to narrow it down.
IMHO, nothing ruins the suspense, and roleplay, as much as an auto ping.
Everyone is respectfully expressing their opinions so here goes mine...
I also agree that the 'autoping' is nonsense and would never allow it in my games. In my games the ability works if you're concentrating on something/someone and my definition of evil is 'particular'.
The orc who just killed the traders may not register as evil if he did it to protect his family or his territory.
Remember that someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter...
Having a 'detect evil' (or any ability like that for that matter) always on just doesn't happen in my games.
my definition of evil is 'particular'.
The orc who just killed the traders may not register as evil if he did it to protect his family or his territory.
Remember that someone's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter...
That makes perfect sense in a game where Evil is a subjective concept. Evil, in that case, would be defined by the god the paladin worships, since that is the power behind the ability. That Family-protecting Orc probably would still ping as evil to a god of Commerce or Humanism. A god of Community or Family, maybe not. That idea gives a whole lot of variance on the part of Paladins between faiths. Each god could define evil very differently. If Evil is Subjective, then so is Good. A Paladin could be downright nasty if they followed a God of Justice (for example) who was more concerned with the ends than the means.
In any game where Evil is not subjective, where Evil is defined by the very existence of the gods that champion it, then Detect Evil isn't so much detecting a person's intent as it is detecting the influence or presence of a certain primal force.
Both are perfectly valid. Here and here are some great essays about the differences between Subjective and Objective morality in D&D and how they might change the mechanics of a game. Highly recommended.
I guess we just have to let the GM tell us which stance this game takes on Good and Evil.
Here is the pfsrd on a Paladin's Detect Evil:
Detect Evil (Sp)
At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.
It's not an auto ping, it's an at-will move action that requires concentration. The big difference is he learns 3 rounds of information in a single round. Per RAW he must concentrate on a single individual or object within 60ft. A paladin is also subject to the consequences of looking upon something that is overwhelmingly evil just like the spell.
Ok, I've done a lot of thinking on this and considered what everyone had to say on the matter. I compared Pathfinder's Detect Evil ability with 2nd Edition's Detect Evil Intent and I'm going to marry some features of both.
But first, I will rule out the Always-On-Evil-Radar. The only thing that I would ever say auto pings for a paladin is something exuding an evil aura that is bumping up against his good aura.
But, I was expecting the "cone of effect" and gave that sort of information when Artegal used it before, so I'm going to maintain that for story continuity. So when Artegal activates his detect evil ability, he can either close his eyes and reach out in an area effect in front of him or concentrate on something he can see to discern it's strength and specific nature. I did also have Artegal pick-up on evil intent to some degree, but he cannot discern what the intention is, at least not without combining it with a sense motive check.
Terquem, how do you see Artegal receiving this information? I think I always picture it as seeing things glow red or having a black aura or something like that, but you may see it very differently. Physical sensations, phantom sounds or smells, even vision flashes could be possible ways to manifest divination.
First up, sorry for not popping up earlier in game, I got a little confused about if I should be reacting or not (seems like it's that kind of week for me).
Anyway, on Detect Evil: Sounds like a fair ruling to me, Bluedove. As for how one senses evil, I liked the way Goblins explained it.
"I could detect it. It was as though I could smell a vile odour on them. Not with my nose, but with...I don't know...My heart I guess."
"And that's what detecting evil feels like? A bad smell?"
"Well, yes and no. Imagine the worst thing that's ever happened to you. Now imagine that it's not just happening to you, but to everyone you care about. That's what evil feels like."
"Blaa! That sounds unbearable! Why would anyone ever want to become a Paladin?!"
"...So others don't have to."
That's pretty cool, but I always thought the answer to "Why would anyone be a paladin?" was "To be a pain in my roguish arse!" XD
Brag away, madam. Brag away.
Congrats!
My kids came back with report cards this week and we got a total of 9 'A's and 2 'B's so yeah, I'm proud.
That's pretty cool, but I always thought the answer to "Why would anyone be a paladin?" was "To be a pain in my roguish arse!" XD
Excellent.
I live vicariously through my daughter. She's just finished the 7th grade and she received top grade awards for 5 out of 8 classes. She actually was selected to take the college ACT test tomorrow to get an assessment. She obviously gets that from her mother. :-)
Excellent.
I live vicariously through my daughter. She's just finished the 7th grade and she received top grade awards for 5 out of 8 classes. She actually was selected to take the college ACT test tomorrow to get an assessment. She obviously gets that from her mother. :-)
I know what you mean about the living vicariously! My son has Asperger's and ADHD which have presented some challenges, especially early on in his school career. But he's really growing into himself lately. He started Robotics Club this year and I introduced him to Tabletop gaming, which he took to immediately. Next year trying out band. He's crushing on a girl and I have the kind of relationship with him that he tells me this stuff. I'm so excited for him! ^_^
Congrats to your daughter! Top grade requires the brains and the work ethic she'll need to excel in college.
I'd like to apologize to everyone but something has come up and I'm going to have to bow out of the campaign.
You all see like really nice people and you've got some really interesting characters. I wish all of you the best, especially our GM Bluedove.
Best of luck in your future gaming!
Sorry to lose Esme, she's an incredibly dynamic character. I hope you can find a GM who can write for her more effectively.
I'm going to need a little time to figure how to lift Esme out. Hopefully it won't be a heavy-handed Deus Ex Machina move... Input is welcome.
Sorry to lose Esme, she's an incredibly dynamic character. I hope you can find a GM who can write for her more effectively.
I'm going to need a little time to figure how to lift Esme out. Hopefully it won't be a heavy-handed Deus Ex Machina move... Input is welcome.
Just have her be a 'bit stubborn' and go off by herself to investigate 'something'. She won't tell anyone she's going so we can't talk her out of it. I'm sure by the time the group found out about it, we will be deep in our own troubles that we won't be able to look for her.
By the time the adventure is over, you can have her either be killed or mysteriously disappear.
Easy enough (with PC collaboration of course).
We've done some initial investigation and roleplay Esme going off on her own as Dimitrio suggested makes sense and is easy to implement.
If Ariadne and Esme follow the portly pickpocket, that will transition them up and out easily enough. I'll post an update after I get something to eat.
Do we want to get a standard default single file and then two abreast marching order that we are comfortable in.
Luc prefers to be somewhere in the middle to the front middle of the line, this will permit healing channels and buffing.
Here is a list of character's:
1)Dimitrio Carini - Human Rogue
2)Nathaniel Artegal Boote - Halfling Paladin
3)Sir Donovan Ravencourt - Human Lore Warden Fighter
4)Luc "Ninefingers" Rockborn - Dwarf Cleric
5)Rannveig Pack-Bound - Human Wolf Shaman Druid
6) Nicu Constine - H/E, Ranger/Wizard
Donovan works best when he's in the middle of a pack of allies acting as a bodyguard for our caster-types. Putting him in front of the main pack, probably standing next to Boote would work best.
When I can manage it, I will be in the front, but when people start running that may be difficult.
In general, Rannveig and Ylva will probably hang out just behind the front, given their druthers, and immediately spread out to try and flank...well, basically anything that's a threat.
In this situation, Rannveig will take a round or so making sure nothing's lurking in the room or on the stairs before heading up. If someone goes up before her, she'll follow close behind.
I'll go ahead and answer some questions and give a description of the layout here, I'm caught up with getting some online classes squared away right now and it may be late this evening before I get the upstairs narrative written and posted.
The rooms are lit, there is a simple narrow stairway against the northwest corner that leads to the upstairs hallway. I'll have smells in the narrative, but you smell nothing that would prevent you from going to investigate. The upstairs layout is 20 feet squared and split simply into two bedrooms and a small privy. They do not have solid doors, instead using bright curtains to shut the doorways. There is a single window in both rooms that face east and they are both open. I made an ascii layout but it won't post right so I'll email that to Baldwin.
I had an unforeseen travel but should be back home tonight (maybe even post). If not, I'll definitely catch up tomorrow.
I neglected to add a bonus for favored class, so I have added 2 hit points to my character, sorry for that
Ok, noted. We'll pause here and give everyone an opportunity to weigh in.
I'm able to check in frequently during my afternoon/evening hours, so I'll be available to respond to questions or searches. =)
I'm going to be hit or miss over the next couple days. I should be on tomorrow early evening for a post but if something comes up feel free to DMPC me.
He smokes his cigar
He'll investigate
He'll nudge Boote along
He is quick to draw a weapon either his hvy mace or battleaxe
Heal folks as needed.
If battle looms with more than one foe at a time, he will casts bless as his first action.
He does not like the Constable so he is inclined to investigate and question him.
Well, this is certainly the longest pause we've had so far.
I've been a little disheartened at the lack of posts, myself. Luc and Dimitrio are the only ones actively investigating the scene... I've been making sure to give timely responses. I could move the game forward, but all that will do is remove you from this scene and thus the opportunity to investigate what is happening here.
Is there something going wrong here? I expected the more passive PC's would become more active with a more provocative scene. I guess that was mistaken. So is it combat everyone is waiting for?
As a player, I always hate it when the GM works the problem out by leading players around by the nose. So I don't do that unless it really looks like the group needs a nudge.
I want to run a good game, and I'm working on it for hours every single day. So please, if you know what you're looking for to rouse your character to take action, let me know. I feel like I'm laying out bread crumbs everywhere, but no one is taking the bait.
You're doing a great job, GM Bluedove, and I apologize for the lack of posting frequency. Please don't feel that you need to include more of less of anything or cater your story to gaming styles. I've been very much enjoying the game as it is, please keep it up and I'll do my part to make a greater contribution.
As a fellow GM, don't feel disheartened if players' posts drop off for a while. I also think you're going an excellent job.
One thing you may want to do is to have a little OCC section at the end of your posts where you 'suggest' roleplaying opportunities for us PCs. Don't forget that what may seem obvious to you, may not be so for us. Also, the inherent slow pace of the game tends to make us players forget things.
In this ooc section, you may also want to let us know the time frame for when you will pick up the game again.
But overall, you're doing just fine so keep it up!
Speaking for me personally, I haven't chimed in too much in game recently just because I don't think Rannveig had anything new to contribute, and I didn't want to clutter things up with random filler posts.
Never fear, though, I'm paying attention, and I'll post when Rannveig does something new. For the moment, though, she's just staying on alert in the hall, leaving the investigation to people who might be able to decipher it.
As for the game itself, I think you're doing an admirable job of laying out a world for us to play with. Honestly, I feel a little lame not contributing more to moving it along, but I feel confident that'll change when Rannveig feels a little more in tune with the situation.
Thanks for the input. I'm just new to this medium and still don't really know what to expect. I must just be an over-eager player, (keep that in mind next time you run a game, fellas. ^_~
I'll keep on keepin' on and try to be more patient. I'll also take Fabian's note and give a few more hints. I like a complex plot, but since I'm writing it, it's easy for me to remember the details.
Happy Father's Day to all the Dads out there! Hope you guys are having a great day! <3
I'm out of town and won't be able to resume my post rate till Tuesday. Sorry..dmpc me as needed.
Dm your doing great, your a good story teller. I really liked the body description.
I'm enjoying the game, and I think the pace is actually pretty good for a PbP. They all have occasional lags. This one is pretty normal in that regard.
For me personally, it is often hard for me to post on Fridays and Saturdays. Holiday weekends especially. I have a big family. :)
I want Donovan to take an active roll in the investigation, but frankly he doesn't have the Skills for it. I wish he did, but Pathfinder thinks that people who are good at fighting can't be good at anything else. I have a *lot* of skills for a fighter, and it still only covers what I consider to be "the basics".
The biggest thing I was chewing my nails over has now been revealed. All the heavy perception hitters were cooling their heels downstairs for a while there! XD But with a natural 20, total perception roll of 30+... I can assure you that you found it all now. Now... what will you do about it? *waggles eyebrows*
Gotta love half-elf spotters! ^_^
Am I close enough to Giselle to pull the doll away from her without moving? I am sure that I am stronger than the child, and I will not make the attempt half heartedly. I have no qualms about startling or frightening the child and I feel confident that if I wanted to I could pull the doll from her quickly, but if i have to move toeward her to be able to do it, I won't do it.
I had pictured Artegal stopping as soon as he laid eyes on the doll, 10 ft away or so. The thing taunted you, certain that it had a striking advantage over you. If you had stopped standing next to the girl and then gave it the ol' detect evil eye, it might have reacted differently.
Mechanically, the thing is gripped by the child, who sits in her mother's lap. It's arms are not restricted and it is easily threatening them both as they are all in the same 5ft square right now. Artegal will have to win the initiative roll and make a successful grapple on the doll to pull it from Giselle's hands without it having a chance to attack.
Luc is waiting to say something to the Aldo until a few others have taken responded.
I'm out of town but will be back tonight/tomorrow.
Not sure if you want to go into rounds (or not) before Rannveig can make it downstairs, or if I should just illustrate her reaction to the room now.
No one has initiated combat so far, so no rounds yet.
No one has initiated combat so far, so no rounds yet.
Sorry to be a bother but can you give a brief summary of where everyone is. Thanks!
Boote is at the foot of the steps, Luc is one or two step up and behind Boote.
Seems like, if it is a small house, the main floor would be very crowded right now, with the mother, Giselle, Olivia, three henchmen, and Aldo, all on the floor, Luc and I would almost certainly be either at the bottom of the stairs, or on the stairs. Now place Dimitrio, Rannvieg and her animal companion, Donovan and Nicu and you have 14 people in a house with something like a 20' x 20' foot print. Yeah, it's crowded.
good thing it's not a druid convention
Nicu was headed downstairs after Artegal, Luc, and Dimitrio, so he would be somewhere behind them, either still on the stairs or at the top of the landing if it's too crowded.
True, there may be a line on the stairs if we were to really map it out. This situation can be combat if you want it to be, but you've really discovered what you needed to here. Olivia is trying to encourage you to blow this joint without engaging.
This is a "loaded" situation, so to speak. It's up to you what you do here, of course. But maybe if I foreshadow a bit here you guys can better decide what you'd like to do. Olivia's next move will be to help Maria to her feet and guide her out of the house toward the tavern. Maria will carry her daughter who is still holding the doll. Artegal is definitely certain the doll is dangerous and pretty much all the rest of you are at least suspicious of it, except Olivia. Outside there is a heavy fog developing and you can only see about 10' in front of you.