Rytara, those are actually traits, not feats. Any bonus they give is a trait bonus
What are the traits? Or did I miss something?
In the meantime however you have leveling up to 3 and picking your training feat. SOme role playing can be done in the meantime if you wish during your training between yourselves and the White Ravens if you choose. What their role vs your role will be you do not know (and likely they do not either)
Ok, now I just feel like I also missed something here. You mentioned getting a "Training Feat" in the leveling post. What "Training Feat" can we take or is this the regular level 3 feat?
_____________I am concerned about my AC at present, but am considering taking 2 levels of Monk in a level or two. It will make my druid spells a little less effective, but will give me a few good feats and I may take the feat to allow a flurry of blows with natural weapons - to be used when I Wild Shape. Also, since I will have a high Wisdom, the AC boost will be helpful and I will not have to worry about finding fancy druid armor (dragon hide, etc).
One note about Teamwork Feats. If Tearyn or Daimon want to take them, Irikar and I are both Gestalt Inquisitors, so between the two of us, we should be able to cover the other necessary player with the feat to make most Teamwork Fears viable.
Ok, now I just feel like I also missed something here. You mentioned getting a "Training Feat" in the leveling post. What "Training Feat" can we take or is this the regular level 3 feat?
From one of the last posts the GM made on the Gameplay board -
Training Trait.
There is a list to pick from in a spoiler tag so make sure to click the spoiler button. This spoiler tag is for everyone to look at :)
This seems like a list similar to what we had to do when we did our criminal trait when we made our characters.
Reposting the text here
“Deception is a tool. Master it.” Adrastus Thorn teaches you the subtle arts of deception and how to sense when they are being used against you. You gain a +1 trait bonus to Bluff and Sense Motive.
“Discover what is real and what is illusion.”Adrastus has taught you to see through deceptions and to never lie to yourself. You gain a +2 trait bonus on saving throws against illusions.
“Fear nothing save our dread lord.” Adrastus Thorn has shown you fear and taught you to master it within yourself. You gain a +2 trait bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
“Focus strengthens your will.” Adrastus Thorn drills you on ways to avoid magic that seek to take control of your mind and divert you from your mission. You gain a +2 trait bonus on saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.
“Let us perfect your favorite spell” Adrastus Thorn drills you again and again in the use of one particular spell. Pick one spell. This spell’s effects manifest at +1 caster level.
“Quiet as death” The Cardinal trained in the arts of being silent and stealthy. You gain a +2 trait bonus to Stealth checks.
“Strike first, strike ruthlessly and thus be victorious” Cardinal Thorn has taught you never to shirk or hesitate in a combat. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks.
“Wear your armor like a second skin.” You have drilled extensively in wearing armor in combat. When you wear armor of any sort, reduce that suit’s armor check penalty by 1 to a minimum check penalty of 0.
“You shall be my angel slayer.” Adrastus thorn spends exhausting amounts of time teaching you about good celestials, their strengths and weaknesses. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Knowledge (planes) checks about good-aligned celestials and receive a +1 trait bonus to any damage roll you make against them.
I mentioned feat in the discussion and should have wrote trait.
But the leveling up post in gameplay says "Training Trait" and that is what they are...traits
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Gaps I'm noticing in our skillsBluff
Knowledge Local (identify humanoids)
Knowledge Dungeoneering (Aberrations)
Knowledge Religion (Undead)We have a ton of overlap in Intimidate, which does make sense given the nature of the campaign. Though some of us may want to back off from raising it. I know inquisitors are typically good at it though and some redundancy of skills is probably a good thing.
Tearyn will be pursuing Bluff and Knowledge Religion. She's never going to dominate them, but will slowly gain proficiency.
DOH!!!!
Ok, probably Strike First for me. The other option is Let us perfect your favorite spell. Could this be used with any Summon Nature's Ally? Or only a certain one SNA I, SNA II, etc?
Rytara, it would be for a specific spell like SNA II
OK, I think I am done.
Trait - You shall be my angel slayer.
Skill Focus(disguise) <-- one I am likely to take 10 ranks in and one that will be very important for me.
So what do people want done with the gear. At this moment I have the mithril, the medallion, the potion and the cloak as kept. The full-plate armor as sold.
Only about 192g each everything sold as an even split plus the amount going to the pool fund
Do we have access to someone who can turn the Mithral into useful stuff (like armour)? If not, I'm not sure keeping it makes a lot of sense, it's somewhat heavy for its value -- though as a trade good, at least it sells at 100%.
There should be enough to make a mithril shirt which would be great for Tearyn.
How much spending cash do we each have at this point?
It should all be in the spreadsheet linked at the top.
Summary of current gold status, assuming Full Plate sold - everything else kept.
Daimon - 543.55
Rytara - 672.15
Teayrn - 554.14
Irikar - 358.98??? (Unsure of starting gold, assumption was 1k)
Gold in party funds - 241.45
I started with 1,000, yes. (Spent much of it on my bow and a few potions)
On the plus side, that's enough to have Masterwork Transformation cast on some of our gear.
20 pounds of mithral is more than enough to make a breastplate... ;)
206.98g is the new calculated amount for Irikar, feel free to double check the numbers on the spreadsheet (I did not take into acount the purchased potions/pouches).
Yes, that looks about right -- I used the last of my coin to get some potions. So, yeah, sadly, no Masterwork transformations on my weapons just yet.
Chill Touch - Can it be used with natural attacks (after the round it was cast of course). Although there are several threads on Chill Touch I think it is confusing enough that I should ask the GM.
I think I'm going to go with Intimidating Prowess. Synergizes with class features nicely giving +16 against living creatures within 10 yards... woooo.
Tearyn, I don't know if you mentioned what feat you are getting. If you get craft wonderous items now it would be an amazing party feat. We would be able to start churning out belts and headbands soon.
Daimon, it should work:
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
WooHoo - DM is back, for a while. Lets go find some goodie goodies to sacrifice.
Leaving on vacation in the morning. Have to wait a few more days!
Daimon looks around at the five people and a goat that he got for the sacrifice.
But I got a goat. A GOAT!
Bah - lawsuits are greatly overrated. Although I am guessing as an evil cleric/rogue, you must be on the defense side - lol.
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FYI - I manually leveled up Tearyn and am still shaky on the Gestalt rules. I hope to verify everything when I have more time. Sold MW Studded Leather and purchased MW Chain Shirt.
That said, Tearyn did take Craft Wondrous Items. I can't imagine that she would be willing to work for hours for the other party members for free. This is especially true considering that she wants to go the very, very expensive path of Lich.
Not sure if GM Blood has any House Rules for crafting for profit, but I'm feeling that it would be a 25% discount for party members and 25% profit for her from list price.
in terms of selling outside the party the cost to craft and sell will basically be even. now between pay members that is between you and whoever you make the item for. now you did sign the pact to become the knot and when others are strong then so are you. so balance between making money and staying competitive with the good guys
I would have no problem with like 10%, and I know that we are "evil", but 25% could create a fairly substantial wealth inequality. I understand that you are planning on going the lich road, which is expensive, but this is really no different than me going vampire which will require multiple (5) feats.
also as a sneak peek, there will be opportunity for a good stretch to run an organization using leadership. if multiple people take it you can have multiple organizations or join them into a bigger one with better chances of success.
Two of the weekly organization opportunities include legitimate and black market transaction that can net you some extra money.
Spreadsheet updated, this assumes that Daimon/Tearyn/Rytara make cloaks, Irikar paying Tearyn's fee for Daimon and Rytara-
Gold Remaining -
Daimon - 43.55 gold
Irikar - 106.98 gold
Rytara - 172.15 gold
Tearyn - 166.64 gold
Group fund - 241.45
Current Calculated Wealth per character (Items + gold)
Daimon - 4114.15
Irikar - 3917.6
Rytara - 3467.15
Tearyn - 4014.65
Rytara clocks in a little low, mostly due to the fact that nothing has been really found that she can use. Daimon clocks in a little high, in large part due to the scrolls of the wizard and he has a masterwork longsword from the prison that he kept as a backup weapon. As it stands I'm not that concerned about the groups current wealth disparity, but I'm always keeping an eye on it.
Stuff we still have that we could sell for money -
Noble Clothes (wizard) 375
tobacco 2
Dozen bottles of Wine (5g) 60
Mithril Cobra Skin 1000
Mithril Cobra Skin 1000
Sunburst medallion (Balins) 250
Clothes and medallion could be used as disguise, which is why they were kept I believe. Rytara could be assigned those items, and I know you said that disguise was a big part of your character.
Tobacco and wine were kept around for bribe reasons.
Mithril was kept because someone might want to do something with it.
Also let us not forget -
Veil of Useful Items*
*A lantern
*A coil of rope
*A 2x4 dimensional window
*A stack of 100 gold
*Vial with draconic rune for life
Spreadsheet updated, this assumes that Daimon/Tearyn/Rytara make cloaks, Irikar paying Tearyn's fee for Daimon and Rytara-
Gold Remaining -
Daimon - 43.55 gold
Irikar - 106.98 gold
Rytara - 172.15 gold
Tearyn - 166.64 goldGroup fund - 241.45
Current Calculated Wealth per character (Items + gold)
Daimon - 4114.15
Irikar - 3917.6
Rytara - 3467.15
Tearyn - 4014.65Rytara clocks in a little low, mostly due to the fact that nothing has been really found that she can use. Daimon clocks in a little high, in large part due to the scrolls of the wizard and he has a masterwork longsword from the prison that he kept as a backup weapon. As it stands I'm not that concerned about the groups current wealth disparity, but I'm always keeping an eye on it.
I was trying to figure where I ended up with so much value. Are we supposed to include the Iron Circlet in our wealth? On one side I understand the importance for the campaign. On the flip side, it is not something that I would probably use normally.
Stuff we still have that we could sell for money -Noble Clothes (wizard) 375
tobacco 2
Dozen bottles of Wine (5g) 60
Mithril Cobra Skin 1000
Mithril Cobra Skin 1000
Sunburst medallion (Balins) 250
I think that using the mithral cobra skins to craft either a mithral shirt or mithral breastplate for Daimon or Tearyn would be best. Tearyn is our stealthy member and Daimon is going to have Arcane Spell Failure issues with most armor. Working value for value, we could have two mithral shirts crafted. Probably getting a Mithral Breastplate for Daimon and then having him pick up Arcane Armor Training is the best choice. Net result would be only a 5% spell failure percentage and very good AC. Eventually he could upgrade to mithral full plate and grab Arcane Armor Mastery, but it really depends on how he wants to spend his feats.
Clothes and medallion could be used as disguise, which is why they were kept I believe. Rytara could be assigned those items, and I know you said that disguise was a big part of your character.
I am not so much the disguise type, as in trying to look like someone else. More, we are well known criminals. Going forward, my appearance, since Rytara really does not much care what she looks like and when she takes on more of a undead/nosferatu appearance, it will likely be necessary to disguise herself enough to avoid sticking out like a rotten body. At the same time, her Bluff, Perception and Stealth should be out the roof so that she should be able to just avoid being where she will be noticed most of the time.
I was trying to figure where I ended up with so much value. Are we supposed to include the Iron Circlet in our wealth? On one side I understand the importance for the campaign. On the flip side, it is not something that I would probably use normally.
I included it, but in truth it doesn't much matter as you would count the value for everyone or you would count it for no one. When comparing one person against the rest of the group it would come out to be basically a wash. Plus if it has value presumably you could also sell it.
I think that you should hold off on doing that though as I imagine the iron circlet/hat of disguise to be of great value when infiltrating the keep.
I don't plan on selling it. My thought was more that it should not really be included in our wealth for the purpose of calculating Wealth by Level. 3400 is slightly above WBL for level 3. 1600 is way below WBL.
Realistically, a big chunk of our wealth is being tied up with the mithral skins and the other undistributed mundane wealth (wine, etc.) If this is added in, it kicks in about 650 per person, together with the party fund, you three are close to WBL and I am about 20% down. Not a terrible thing, and I assume that I will catch up, so I am not particularly concerned. The real thing is that we have nearly 2700 in loot that is currently of no value to us. With that we could have several suits of magic armor, mithral shirts, a magic weapon, or even a headband/belt of ability increase if we were to pool it. But right now, we simply have the skins/other stuff that is not helping us at all.
I know that we are on the boat, but if someone wants to have the skins crafted into armor or something, that could be most useful. We can probably retcon this if necessary. We could even turn it into mithral weapons, although other than giving us the benefit of being considered silver, I have never found mithral weapons to be particularly useful. As I said before, I think that Mithral Shirt/Breastplate would be most beneficial for the party by jacking up someone's AC without reducing their ability checks/Dex/spell failure by much.
I'm kind of wondering why this wasn't all hashed out during the several weeks break that we had. Except for discounted cloaks by Tearyn, the numbers were up in the spreadsheet and the loot was posted in the discussion thread.
Regardless pooling funds seems like a bit of a stretch when one party member is charging others for crafted goods. I don't fault Tearyn for it especially in a game such as this but it shows that cooperation among the group isn't 100%.
Mithril Fullplate sounds like a nice idea, but it wouldn't be anything any time soon. It's just so expensive both with money and feats. At the moment Daimon is going to Mage Armor is up and be done with it.
It also 'feels' like the authors intended the circlet to be part of WBL, as even if everything was sold we wouldn't reach 3k gold a piece.
One was made when we were doing the loot from the prison escape, one item was duplicated when being sold (had the alchemist lab sold twice). I sold the masterwork longsword from Blackerly sold to compensate, so Daimon no longer has that.
The other is I incorrecly handled Tearyn getting her new armor.
The net effect of this from the numbers given a couple of posts above. Daimon has a bit more gold but loses wealth, Rytara gains gold, Tearyn loses gold. Irikar stays the same. Nothing major, but wanted to bring it to everyone's attention in case anyone else is keeping track of this.
I did not realize how much you had in the spreadsheet. I have not looked at it in a while due to not much going on and me moving my family across the country. It looks great.
As I said, I have no problem with us actually working together. Remember, we are supposed to be LE. Not self centered CE/CN. We are a team and have sworn in Asmodeus' name to work together. Everyone is welcome to plot behind one another's backs, but the goal of this AP is to work together toward a end goal. If we distrust one another and do not work as a team, I imagine that we will end up as simply four unmarked graves in the history annals of Talingarde.
Having played in several pbp campaigns, I am in 16 active campaigns at this point, I have seen that the best way to screw up a pbp campaign is to fight over wealth distribution. I thought that we had this discussion quite some time ago, but it may have been in some other campaign. The way I have seen with the least fighting is simply divide everything equally. Daimon has done yeoman's duty by putting the spreadsheet together which will make it much easier to calculate things. Going forward, I think that if someone gets a powerful magic item that is worth more than they have available, then they simply go into debt to the rest of the party and then pay it back with the next loot. Every time I bring this up, I hear nothing but grumbling, but in the several campaigns that I am in in which this technique is used, it has worked flawlessly. If the loot is 1500/player and there is a Headband +2 (2000gp sale value), then the person who takes the headband owes one other player 500gp, or some other equal split amongst several players.
That works for me.
Tearyn - regarding your phylactery. I imagine that when we get to where we are powerful enough to consider this, the rest of us will support you in your endeavors, just as I hope you all will support me in gaining magic items to allow me to work in/around sunlight and flowing water.
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The loot splitting method sounds good to me.
To be honest, the part with charging for magic items is purely roleplay oriented with the phylactery being a part of an end goal. The fact is that the party hasn't really developed a "friendly" attitude even if they have been "cooperative." Veiled threats and insults seem more common than open praise or friendship. I don't see any of these characters toiling for hours to create something for another without some sort of personal gain.
That said, maybe if Tearyn starts the goodwill rolling, the friendliness will blossom. She will drop the 10% in hopes that the party truly forms a bond.
GM Blood: As a side note, I really like Tearyn's personality but I'm not really happy with her "build." I really envisioned her more as a caster-type with rogue skills and she has developed into a combat-rogue with cleric powers. I was wondering what you would think of a Pathfinder Society Style rebuild of her character replacing Rogue with Gravewalker Witch with Insanity for patron. Background, personality, motiviation would all stay the same. This would obviously take a little away from the Rogue skills that the party has but would also fill a bit of a void we have with a lack of arcanist.
This would obviously take a little away from the Rogue skills that the party has but would also fill a bit of a void we have with a lack of arcanist.
Now Daimon is slightly insulted :P (not really, and I see where you are coming from for sure)
While I am completely happy with Daimon, he IS a bit more martial than I originally thought he would be. In my head I originally had him more of a sorcerer then anti-paladin but in play he is definitely more anti-paladin then sorcerer. I think that's partly because I've stayed away from the first level spells like Sleep and Color Spray, which are your typical god wizard staples.
As he gets up in levels I imagine that he will be a little more spell-slingy though. I know I definitely want to balance his str and cha and not have one stat dominate the other.
I am ok with that, we can say that the the 3 months of training changed your skill set
Sorry Daimon! Didn't mean to step on toes but, especially with the feat builds you have been discussing, I thought you were full-on melee.
Thanks GM Blood! I will get a new build together ASAP.
You aren't stepping on my toes. I was being fairly tongue in-cheek.
I know it seems that way but his feats aren't even that melee oriented. Arcane Strike can be used with Scorching Rays (looking forward to that spell at level 4). Intimidating Prowess synergizes with his class feature - which is essentially a debuff (Shaken) + Command spell and not really melee oriented at all (until later, at least). Power attack will be coming, but not until level 7 probably which for melee is actually really late. I might have to push up PA to level 5 if I want leadership though as hinted by the GM. Iron will and skill focus have no direct melee benefits.
You'll see my spell selection look fairly diverse as progression continues. Trying to get roughly one offensive, one defensive, one control, and utility spell at each level. It just takes a bit to get there. I'll probably be avoiding the save-or-die stuff.
What I REALLY want is to be a switch hitter, caster or melee as appropriate to the situation.
I used grease twice and true strike twice at level 1, that was all his spells. I would have used more spells during the trials but ... snakes can't be tripped ... floaty shadow thing... can't be tripped. Undead coming out of coffins one at a time aren't good targets... If they were grouped he would have though. Tactically speaking I probably should have tried to grease Balin to make him fall. I thought about it but decided Daimon wanted to rip out his throat, Balin being responsible for his capture and all. Daimon's like that. Also note that sorcerers don't get an extra first level spell at level 2 - True Strike and Grease were still his only real spells.
He's also now going to be using Mage armor, so at least for awhile there won't be ASF to deal with.
As far as your character - I actually think a Mystic Theurge type of character would be really beneficial.
Plus, the ranger/inquisitor can fill the skill role. :-)
Likewise, the Druid/Inquisitor will fill the skill role as well. In addition, I should have better than average stealth and the like. My plan is to take 2 levels of Monk (levels 4-5), and then back to Druid the rest of the way. This will buff up my combat skills and enable me to generally go armorless, which will eliminate the need to be searching for metalless armor.
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The new and improved Tearyn is up and running except for equipment. I did think about Mystic Theurge but in the end, you really just end up doubling your cleric spellcasting at the cost of the second class's non-spell abilities.
She also can craft Alchemical Items, Scrolls, Potions, and Wondrous Items from the Cleric List and her Spellbook. That means she can make scrolls (eventually wands) of Cure Light/Serious Wounds for her to cast on others as "party items" if people want. Potions of the same for purchase as well.
I'm not certain what to do about equipment, but figured I might just sell off Tearyn's old combat gear and use that to get started with the caster gear. I will just undo the purchase of the Chain Shirt though as that simply wouldn't have happened. Sound fair?
As I calculate selling off two MW Short Swords, MW Studded Leather armor, MW Thieve's tools and recovering the 250 for the Chain Shirt would put her up 672.5 gold. She loses the 100 gold paid for two cloaks, but actually recovers 25 gold that she will keep as profit due to her Hedge Magician Trait that she does intend to keep profits from. ;-) That means that she should add 598.5 to the 8.89 gold total Daimon has for her, for a total of 606.39 gold to re-outfit with.
Question for GM Blood: Can Tearyn use her new Deliver Touch Spells item with Scrolls as scrolls are a spell completion item? Still a full-round action obviously.
Deliver Touch Spells (Su)
At 3rd level or higher, a gravewalker can use her poppet to deliver touch spells. After casting a touch spell, as a full-round action, the witch can designate a target and stab a pin into her poppet, delivering the spell as a ranged touch attack. The target must be within range of her aura of desecration ability.
The way it look that ability would be cast a touch spell in one round, then next round use a full-round to deliver the touch spell as a ranged touch. As far as I am concerned scrolls and wands would be fine as well as spells.
Looking over your sheet quick you list the Extra hex feat, but not what extra hex you took. It looks like you have taken Misfortune (Not listed in Special Abilities), Cauldron, and Prehensile Hair.
You class needs to be updated in the sheet (not the status line) and Spontaneous casting need to be changed from "Cure or Inflict" to "Infernal Healing or Inflict" which includes Greater Infernal Healing.
I didn't mean take the MT PrC class. I just meant that you are MTish - a full arcane and divine spellcaster.
Anyway as far as equipment
Chain shirt poofed - 250
Two MW short swords sold - 310
Cloak Materials - 75 (25 per cloak, making three cloaks)
Thief tools - 50 (100% as a trade good)
Gold lost from Irikar - 100
MW Studded Leather being sold was already accounted for.
I calculate 593.89 gold remaining.
Daimon will also give you the scrolls which you can teach to your puppet or whatever.
Scroll of Magic Missile
Scroll of Sleep
Scroll of Hideous Laughter
Scroll of Invisibility
I found this little gem that should clear up any questions about how Deliver Touch Spells works with a Gravewalker Witch - SKR post and all.
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I agree that is how it would work... takes one action to cast the spell, read the scroll, etc. then the next to use the pin as a full round action. I figure it might be useful for healing in combat as well as offensively.
I made the other update and the only other purchases were four onyx gems and a spell component pouch. I was going to make some scrolls but I figure I may be crafting some scrolls and potions for the party in the mean time.
Does anyone want any scrolls or potions?
Irikar will keep the hit to his gp for the Mwork Thieves' Tools.