Yep. I didn't see that thread but some others made similar comments. Now some have mentioned dangerous random encounters, so Perception is really useful, that's why I made it a class skill for my character even without a wisdom bonus.
I see Elros II hasn't left his brigand days behind after all...:)
Lol...well, thank God for my 19 WIS, class skill, and trait bonus then XP
As far as the trap spotter/healer question goes, I can cover one or the other, depending on what the group is most concerned about. My initial character plan was to take at least a few levels in cleric(seperatist archetype), and between that, Roga, Amoonraan and Stellan all at least being able to use a wand, I figured we'd have enough healing that can go around to stave off most immediate concerns. I'd like to get at least two or three ranger levels under the belt, so to speak, but I could go full on-cleric even without feeling like my character was too shifted; he's quite dedicated to Desna as is.
If traps are more of a concern though, rogue is also a direction I could see myself going without feeling too off-concept. I don't remember there being a large number of traps in the adventure, but a few that do come to mind were doozies.
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hehe, I'm guessing that is a bit evil, but my character will probably only do that if "we" really need money. Beside I didn't pick up Mount on my spell book, and by level 2 we'll probably be exploring and rarely needs to use coins, and our loot should be quite decent in comparison to a horse worth more or less 75gp.
I think we should try it without a rogue, I really like the party so far.
I plan to pick extra lay on hands at level two, so I hope we have the healing part covered, so Triaxus just take the ranger levels you want.
@Elros, Do you really take me for lawful stupid? :P But we would have to take about the error of your ways of cause.
@Dunebugg A question, El suggested:
How about we wait for the bandit to approach the shed, and as they got close Roga addressed them to distract them from the shed, that's the cue for me to colour spray them.
I think this is close to or in conflict with the paladins code of conduct, what is your take? I am thinking about the act with honour (not lying etc.). My problem is that this might be an option to talked them out of their intent, but I can't do it if it is in conflict with the code.
Let me hear what everyone thinks about this interpretation.
I'm a personal believer that paladin's should not be restricted to lawful good, but thats just me.
As for how a lawful person would react, sure you don't want to lie, but theres a difference between lying and not telling the whole truth
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I should have just lied to you, and tells you to greet the bandit when they are about to steal from the storage shed.
Mostly at Roga but all to be honest.
Hmm since we're ooc here, let see what would happen,
1. If they would be persuaded by you, that's swell, and they won't be going towards the shed, hence we won't have to enter combat.
2. You tries to persuaded them, they think you are an igit for being in their way, they start combat. (we're in disadvantage) and I don't like this to happen. Hmm...
From the second scenario, maybe if you negotiate with them near some place where we could surround them easily.
Also how do you intent to present yourself? Are you going to be standing at the front gate?
Dunebugg, do you have any issue with me switching my alignment? I seem to be playing more of the lawful neutral with his attitude.
@Dunebugg A question, El suggested:
How about we wait for the bandit to approach the shed, and as they got close Roga addressed them to distract them from the shed, that's the cue for me to colour spray them.
I think this is close to or in conflict with the paladins code of conduct, what is your take? I am thinking about the act with honour (not lying etc.). My problem is that this might be an option to talked them out of their intent, but I can't do it if it is in conflict with the code.
Let me hear what everyone thinks about this interpretation.
This is why I really really really hate the Paladin class. Because no matter what you do, you're contradicting either the "Good" or the "Lawful". And s*!* help you if the GM has any kind of philosophical training in ethics...
Based on the description of the LG, El's proposed course of action would violate the Paladin's commitments. I don't think a Paladin could knowingly let himself be used in the setting up of a trap. An ambush, however, where he tries to convince the offending parties they have no option but surrender...that seems an acceptable loophole (incidentally, that is more or less what Moony is going to suggest sometime over the next couple of posts) because then they are refusing to surrender and thus you can punch them in the balls to your heart's content ^^
I've updated my character with more data on the winter witch archetype. Meant to do that earlier got sidetracked, my apologies.
I find the following confusing as written:
Cold Flesh (Ex)
At 1st level, a winter witch gains endure elements as a constant spell-like ability, but only against cold temperatures. At 4th level, she gains cold resistance 5, making her comfortable in near-freezing temperatures. At 9th-level, this increases to cold resistance 10, and at 14th level, it becomes immunity to cold.
The problem I have is that endure elements - cold should protect down to 50' below zero Fahrenheit. But the 4th level statement about being comfortable at "near-freezing temp" seems to contradict that. So I'm thinking that Stellan doesn't need cold -weather gear until the temp drops below -20' F until fourth level and then is good till -50'F.
I've looked at the environmental rules and the spell Endure Elements trying to figure this out.
Please, Dunebugg, let me know what you think.
I think we're ok on traps and healing for now. The paladin powers will come in handy as well, convering areas I can't.
Ethics and morality, issues that have vexed mankind for millenia. For an rpg let's make it a little easier. The bandits are already guilty, according to Oleg's and Svetlana testimony, of repeated robberies, assaults, and threatening the outrage of a woman, these are capital crimes. The only thing even the most dedicated LG paladin owes the bandits is a chance to surrender, he doesn't need to be fairer to them then they are to their victims, otherwise we go into Lawful stupid territory. The bandits are not honorable foes, they should be shown as humane treatment as possible, but not at the cost of innocent lives.
Ethics and morality, issues that have vexed mankind for millenia. For an rpg let's make it a little easier. The bandits are already guilty, according to Oleg's and Svetlana testimony, of repeated robberies, assaults, and threatening the outrage of a woman, these are capital crimes. The only thing even the most dedicated LG paladin owes the bandits is a chance to surrender, he doesn't need to be fairer to them then they are to their victims, otherwise we go into Lawful stupid territory. The bandits are not honorable foes, they should be shown as humane treatment as possible, but not at the cost of innocent lives.
I'm not suggesting that a Paladin 'owes' them anything but a mere chance. I'm just saying that El's initial plan for the trap -- they come up and start talking and then bam, colour spray -- would violate the Paladin's ethics if he was a willing participant in such a plan.
If, however, the scene played out where they refused the Paladin's ultimatum and they drew their swords and at that point all the PCs jumped out of their ambush spots at that moment, that would be perfectly acceptable within the Paladin ethic.
If I were to start deconstructing the actual LG position, however, the whole concept of LG is utterly incoherent, imo. That's why I loathe Paladins is because I just can't see any real way to play one that isn't a walking contradiction. Even if we accept that all the Paladin owes them is a mere chance, other moral questions will pop up that will undermine the Paladin's ethic (one could make a case that planning any ambush at all is immoral).
Group: feel free to change alignment whenever you like as long as it fits with your character and his/her development. Just give a heads up here.
Late coming in about the rogue thing: No, they're not that important. There are a couple of traps, and they are wicked when you get hit. So.. rare and dangerous. Like magic should be :P
@Stellan: I think its just a flavor thing to describe in detail the Cold Resistance 5. Coming from somebody who endures -50F for 2-3 months a year, it's not that bad. (Okay its awful but you just have to dress warmly.)
@Lawful Good:
The SRD says
A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.
Lawful good combines honor with compassion.
The Paladin code of ethics says:
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
The last character I played was a LG Cleric of the Sovereign Host (Eberron), and a Malconvoker. His idea of LG was more Lawful-Gray and less Lawful-Good. It was an intensely fun character who pushed myself and my group to question the fine line between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral.
To me, stick to the morality of the Paladin code above all else. You can work with people who are not LG, as long as they don't consistently offend your moral code.
@Moony: You've heard of the vengeful Palain I'm sure. LG can be an a&+#&@& bent on revenge. He is the kind of Paladin who leans VERY heavily on the "punish those who harm or threaten innocents". My opinion is that he would not be violating the code unless something like the following occured.
Roga: "Lay down your weapons and you will live".. After they lay down their weapons, he calls the attack to start.
Thanks for your reply, dunebugg, but I'm not sure what that means in action in your view. Let's put it another way, according to RAW Endure elements means " exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit (-45 and 60 degrees Celsius) without having to make Fortitude saves." and cold weather gear allows "This outfit grants a +5 circumstance bonus on Fortitude saving throws against exposure to cold weather.". This would mean that Stellan doesn't need Cold weather gear at all until the temp dropped below -50" F and then the clothes would provide the normal benefit. Is that OK with you?
Alignments: Have fun, like all rules it's a guideline, not a straight jacket, don't bog down the game, and have fun. (Did I say that already?)
That is how I interpret it as well, Stellan. You won't need any further protection until past -50F (which is most certainly NOT likely considering where you are).
On a completely unrelated matter...dunebugg, do you mind terribly if I drop two points from my STR to bump my DEX? The more I look at it, the more worried I am that any ranged touch spell I try to fire off is just gonna fizzle because I have no DEX.
Getting the feeling that no characters like Caelus so far. I realise that he can be intense IC, so don't hold it against me :)
Getting the feeling that no characters like Caelus so far. I realise that he can be intense IC, so don't hold it against me :)
And Moony doesn't like anybody...so don't take too much offense to that XP
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Oh snap Caelus, I'm going to join Roga in persuading the bandits. Although I only have +5 diplomacy, but since they are bandit I get an additional +1 due to my Brigand trait. If Roga refuse however, I'll be in the stable, cuz then my colour spray would be within range when the combat start and I don't have to move out to do so.
hey your character's the one that blank my character's request for him to sit with us and eat, don't blame us =p just yet XD
Yeah, reason I didn't respond to that was cause my character was already sitting and eatting, so I was confused both IC and OOC.
Too bad I wasn't an evil alignment, Caelus would attack the bandits before you had a chance to reason with them, but that's kinda working against the party, and not something I want to do ooc
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hey your character's the one that blank my character's request for him to sit with us and eat, don't blame us =p just yet XDYeah, reason I didn't respond to that was cause my character was already sitting and eatting, so I was confused both IC and OOC.
Too bad I wasn't an evil alignment, Caelus would attack the bandits before you had a chance to reason with them, but that's kinda working against the party, and not something I want to do ooc
Ah right, I probably missed some thing, I thought you was standing up since you greet Roga as he walked in with a handshake or something, or is that someone else now? Doesn't matter anyway.
What alignment would you class banditry in? Don't see a reason why you would attack me even if you are in evil alignment? Actually now that I think about it, Chaotic Evil probably would.
wouldn't attack you, would attack the bandits before you had a chance to talk to them and reason with them, so lawful evil or NE would do it
No worries from my end Caelus. This is the fastest paced PBP I've ever been in; I'm pretty sure I've missed a few things too.
This is actually my first pbp. I am involved in a second one as well, which is even faster paced then this one, I miss alot of info!
On a completely unrelated matter...dunebugg, do you mind terribly if I drop two points from my STR to bump my DEX? The more I look at it, the more worried I am that any ranged touch spell I try to fire off is just gonna fizzle because I have no DEX.
Thats fine, yes. In my offline game we have a "1 session tweak" rule where you are free to change anything you like about your character after having played them for a bit. I guess that would translate into about.. a week or two for PbP lol :P
@Caelus+Elros banditry alignment things:
I see both what Caelus listed and 'normal' bandit alignment as Chaotic. Its never necessarily evil. I mean look at Robin Hood. CG or CN, easy.
not so much an interwining as a crossing point, but yeah!
Hurray for character development!
I didn't read anyone's backstory, as I like for them to tell me about it when their character felt the need to throughout their journey. It also lessen me from meta-ing, and hopefully I won't be.
It can be fun to have characters whose stories touch each others. makes for a lot of good RP. Amoonrann and Caelus found a way to involve each other without actually having met. Even more fun!
And we will have to finish our storyline conflict once our ambush is over
Lol...and Svetlana comes out of nowhere and breaks my character...which in turn breaks the server XP
That was very fun to play ^^
Glad we all enjoyed it, just wait until combat!
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@Caelus, hopefully no combat, =p I don't wanna die yet.
@DM, how do you treat player with dead PC? Are we kicked from the campaign? or Are we allowed to bring in another guy/girl. Either way I don't wanna die.
I don't think they'll be here yet, probably still quite some distance but close, since sound of creature walking is perception 10, running would probably be easier i think. But we should get into position. I'll be out in the open with Roga, hopefully they'll be persuaded.
Dead player? You can come in as a new character. Or you could opt for a Reincarnation. Ressurection in PF is much more forgiving than 3.5 was, if you haven't looked yet.
When it comes to character death, I think this is the first time I have so many options at my disposal as I can play any number of people from my 3x3x3, I have:
Tovan - Human Male Monk
Lady Sumara Vraie - Human Female Oracle
Tierce Vraie - Twin brother to Caelus, he's a rogue
Talon Vraie - Bard
And I think all options still work with the party
In 3.5 you lost a level when you were res'd. In PF you just gain permanent negative levels that can be gotten rid of through spells and gold.
greater restoration will get rid of them
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Ah right, never played/tried that before, still fairly new to pathfinder. (less than a year experience)
Had tons of experience dying and making a new character on a 3.5 home brew campaign, and near the game one of our character killed an important NPC hence breaking the entire campaign and end up just having a battle royale. And hence no one's willing to resurrect(or even got that high to do so).
My current RL PF campaign, no one has died yet.
Heads up: today is very busy. Omw to the gym as a write this on my phone, then I work (got a PT job for the summer finally) and then I have my offline game, then the Avengers! Posts may be very scarce from me today.
...giggity...
^^
Gives me more time to plan out my one post where I call out the bandits
Hey guys, sorry to say it, but due to unforeseen life comittments, I will have to be quitting my online campaigns. Sorry for the inconvenience and I wish you all the best of luck. Make sure tame those stolen lands!
Real life comes first, sorry to see you go. Hope things improve for you. Also ouch! There goes one of our front line fighters.