Nice one! Well then you unkilled it?!
killed something alive this is a good day for Ferrous. Maybe it was that mushroom ale he drank. When If we get to the room he is having another drink.
BTW... I'm not a big fan of withholding XP from those not actively participating in combat. I'll live with your decision, but that's not what Montague is all about. Does he get experience for doing the things that he's good at... disarming, unlocking, gathering poison, sneaking? If so are there opportunities to frequently use these abilities? In this case he was rear guard and if the party had been attacked from behind he would have fought. If we only get XP for combat and treasure, then I would have made a fighter.
Except that if a door doesn't get unlocked we move on if an enemy doesn't get killed we "fighters" die and you non fighting classes try to run or die as well. I think it isn't too much to ask to throw a single dagger while in combat and not just stand there and file your nails. In the last combat granted there was limited space so I could see not getting involved
OK. I'll keep that in mind. Next time you disarm the trap.
It is a matter of skill. Montague has just as much a chance of hitting as Ferrous. Notice that Ferrous was frontline so he can do what he is there to do be the target of attacks. But we can all at least try to kill the things attacking the group right? Correction Montague is way more likely to hit with a light weapon than Ferrous. It seems like you are saying "I do traps and doors and that is it." Not I do all I CAN to help.
This is a "Role Playing" game not a tabletop battle game. I chose to play Montague as a sniveling little coward that lets the people with armor and sharp weapons do what they do best. He might be able to hit with light weapons (Though his history dictate otherwise), but he is also hit very easily, and will go down quickly in melee. If there is room to maneuver around, and get back-attack damage, or otherwise sneakily get in a hit, or even more wide open combat (He did throw his two daggers in the last battle). he'll do so, but it's not in his personality to attract attacks.
Are you telling me your character is only good at combat, and has no other skills, so you should only do combat, but Montague is supposed to do everything?
I'm sorry you don't like Montague's actions, but frankly you're not playing his character. You don't have to like him, and if he's ruining your enjoyment of the game, I'll respectfully withdraw, but I believe you need to expand your thinking about how I play my character.
If the GM chooses not to reward XP for my character playing his role, then that's fine. Eventually he'll fall behind and end up getting killed anyway.
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Does he get experience for doing the things that he's good at... disarming, unlocking, gathering poison, sneaking?
Yes, he certainly does.
XP has been awarded for traps in the past. As far as the poison goes, XP would be awarded for using the poison successfully, just as XP was awarded for using the fireworks successfully, for example. Or if you managed to get someone to buy it then XP would be awarded as treasure.
Some areas of the dungeon are trap-heavy, while others are trap-light. These skills will matter.
The issue here is that you still had a chance to participate in combat without any risk to yourself, by standing behind the existing front line of fighters. This would still have been in-character. But instead you let NPCs do the work. If you did something that proved ineffective or unnecessary then you would have still got XP, but as it is you passed for every action that combat. I find it hard to award XP for doing absolutely nothing.
Most of the XP you earn goes towards Hit Points, Thac0, and Saves, which reflect your combat experience. It may be in-character for a character to avoid combat, but then it would also be realistic for that character to not advance as quickly.
Bad rolls aside, Montague is good at combat. Montague actually is tied for the best THAC0 in the party. You may not do a lot of damage but you should hit more often than anyone other than Fistep and Ana when they fight in melee, and the inherent +1 to hit at short range for ranged combat effectively means you can stand behind another character for a -1 cover penalty and still have the best chance to hit in the party. Your AC is also better than Ana's, and counting your temporary HP you have the highest HP in the party, even when Ferrous is at full health.
In-character, Montague himself may not understand this yet, and he may see himself as more fragile than he actually is. How you roleplay that is up to you. But sooner or later he should realize how effective he can actually be.
No hard feelings, but it's probably best I step away from the game. I was enjoying doing something different by playing an "unlikable" character, that had planned on gaining confidence in both himself and the other players thorough experiencing success, and learning to trust others. To grow from a sniveling, selfish youth to a confident, likeable young man. I don't see where "in game" anything has happened to give him confidence to develop. If it had, or if it did then you would have seen him grow into more of a party member, but awarding him with false confidence when he had accomplished very little to nothing, would be meta-gaming... which I detest. I know his character sheet shows he's capable, but nothing in game has reinforced that fact.
In play Montague has hit something maybe three-four times since the game started. Now obviously I can look at his stats, and see that he's effective in combat, but the experiences in the "character's" life have basically sapped any confidence he might have. In fact I didn't post it, but in the last combat I actually rolled a natural 19 on a dagger throw on this board, but didn't post it, as I remembered I not only couldn't see what was going on, but had been given the task of guarding the rear of the party. When he asked if we were winning, his intent was to move forward with a negative response, and add his attacks to the group, but the combat was already over. So because he did what he was asked in guarding the rear, and the combat was over in two rounds... which he would have joined in the next round, he has been denied advancement. I thought XP portrayed learning through experience, and growing as a character, not piling up bodies.
What young Montague has learned instead is that if you don't do what everyone else wants and expects you to do you cannot grow as a character...
Again, thanks for the opportunity, and I wish the party luck in this neverending quest to fill their bellies, and kill random encounters. No hard feelings, and hope to see you guys around the boards.
Well that escalated quickly. Don't think this was anyone intent.
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No hard feelings, but it's probably best I step away from the game....
I'm sorry you feel that way, though it is your decision. I do feel you are overreacting, considering that you have only missed out on a possible 37 XP, and you are already a level ahead of everyone else.
...To grow from a sniveling, selfish youth to a confident, likeable young man.
This is a good roleplaying goal, but roleplaying is up to you to implement.
I don't see where "in game" anything has happened to give him confidence to develop.
This is roleplaying, and up to you to interpret. But in the combat with the oil beetles, you went into melee, and not only did you not take any damage, but you scored 2 hits, including a successful backstab which ended the fight. I'm surprised Montague wasn't "feeling his oats" a bit after that.
So because he did what he was asked in guarding the rear... he has been denied advancement.
If an enemy attacked from the rear, and the "front guards" did not move back to help, whatever their reasons, they would not have received XP either. If the party asked you to remain behind in camp while they explore, you wouldn't expect a share of the XP they gathered for doing that.
I thought XP portrayed learning through experience, and growing as a character, not piling up bodies.
Let's be fair. This is not Pathfinder; it is a retroclone of 1e Basic D&D. Yes there are a lot of house rules (most of which are in your favor as PCs), but the spirit remains the same. And the fundamental principle of that edition is that you gain XP by overcoming encounters in the dungeon, and garnering whatever rewards come from that.
I'm not going to implement "Roleplaying XP awards" unless the RP is particularly entertaining for everyone or costs the character something in game. In this case your character avoided a battle where he could have been lethally poisoned. That is its own reward.
Again, I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but for a dungeon crawl-style of adventure I think the way I am doing things is reasonable. If you wish to continue with the game then you are still welcome.
That is too bad. I didn't have a problem with how he was playing his character but there are consequences for your actions (or in this case inaction)
Let's be fair. This is not Pathfinder; it is a retroclone of 1e Basic D&D.
Same applies in Pathfinder, D&D3X, AD&D 1e/2e.
And it's a dungeon!
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Let's be fair. This is not Pathfinder; it is a retroclone of 1e Basic D&D.Same applies in Pathfinder, D&D3X, AD&D 1e/2e.
And it's a dungeon!
I would say that Pathfinder and 3.X are different because all characters level at the same rate. As a result, the DM would normally avoid penalizing XP to a specific player since then the party won't all level up at the same time. There are also much more frequent "story awards" in published PF/3.X material.
But it is going to make the adventure much more difficult for everyone if an encounter is intended for the number of players in the party and then certain players "sit it out." In most cases standing behind other characters and making missile attacks costs a player nothing.
I probably should have brought this issue up earlier. But it's too late at this point.
Can you make a NPC Thief until a PC one is found? I would also consider making a thief character and leaving Ferrous to rest up it will be several days before he is fully recovered. This would be a backup character in the event that Ferrous dies at some point and would go back behind the scenes once we found an interested party to run a thief all the time.
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If we need to go forward I would make an NPC thief. He would not be as effective as a PC thief of course. I will keep fishing for a thief for another day or two.
Having you roll up a thief as a backup character is a possibility but I wouldn't want you playing them both at once, so it would mean that you are splitting the XP you earn between two characters, and I'd rather not do that if I can avoid it. One Cure Light Wounds spell from Talikshim would get Ferrous back into double digit HP, so we should be able to proceed.
Ready to roll sub 4 dice any time.
ROTFL Ferrous
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Re: Talikshim:
I haven't heard anything from Talikshim for about 2 weeks, and he has PM turned off. I just looked over his other aliases and it seems like his most recent posts were all on the last day we heard from him.
:(
Hopefully it is some temporary RL problem which will get resolved, so he might be back. But I am not optimistic. Sometimes people just disappear from the forums.
I am going to bot Talikshim for now as we have already had enough of a hiatus. But I am also going to start looking for a replacement cleric.
Thats fine.
Checking in. Sorry for the delay; I've been doing a honeydo list all weekend.
For single file marching order I would suggest Ferrous be in the front followed by Anastoria in the middle I would put Brathas and Talikshim with Zynazyr and Fistep being rear guard. That way we have some melee and some magic in front and behind. Thoughts? For a 10' wide I don't know.
I would agree with Ferrous on single file order.
For 10' wide, maybe
Ferrous/Fistep
Zynazyr/Healer
Brathas/Ana
For single file marching order I would suggest Ferrous be in the front followed by Anastoria in the middle I would put Brathas and Talikshim with Zynazyr and Fistep being rear guard. That way we have some melee and some magic in front and behind. Thoughts? For a 10' wide I don't know.
Ferrous, Fistep, Brathas, Takikshim, Zynazyr and Ana.
That way you have good senses (dwarf and elf) in front and back.
No Offense Fistep but in single file I want someone to be able to fire over my head. So Ana with her sleep spell or arrow was my thinking I think have a magic user able to throw a spell if needed would be good.
Ferrous, Fistep, Brathas, Takikshim, Zynazyr and Ana.
That way you have good senses (dwarf and elf) in front and back.
Good point but all of our casters are at the back. Maybe switch me and Brathas?
No Offense Fistep but in single file I want someone to be able to fire over my head. So Ana with her sleep spell or arrow was my thinking I think have a magic user able to throw a spell if needed would be good.
None taken, but you actually need to be able to hit something if you wanna be out front. :)
Yes, fistep has a bow, no he won't use it unless absolutely needed. And yes, Brathas is much better at firing. Ana only has a 9 dex.
And 'thief' sorta needs to be able to move quickly up front to get traps? :D
Should Brathas go 2nd then? He could fire and then step back for Fistep to step up.
Yeah and that would keep Mr. Glass Fighter away from the front for a round. For the record Ferrous isn't in front to hit first he is in front to BE HIT first.
Sounds good to me. Assuming I live past my first trap (RIP Black Dougal).
Yeah and that would keep Mr. Glass Fighter away from the front for a round. For the record Ferrous isn't in front to hit first he is in front to BE HIT first.
ROTFL. :)
My father's magic-user once died from the bite of a giant rat. To add insult to injury, it was diseased.
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Attention Party Members:
Wallia, our new party cleric, is just about ready.
To get him up to speed I am going to retcon a little and say that he is present in the current encounter. He can post a quick morning "hi guys I am ready to join" and then we will move back to the present.
Note that he is a cleric rather than a shaman and at present only has one lay on hands per day. Talikshim will be able to cast one more CLW today.
These guys like commerce and favor guile over force... Brathas is pretty tempted to enlist. The Brotherhood seems not an option now that we killed several of them, and we haven't met the Warrior Maidens yet. Not that we have to align with anybody, but Brathas likes the Magi so far.
I'd much prefer the warrior maidens. :)
Just a heads-up. I'm going to be at a convention tomorrow through Monday. Please bot me as necessary.
Just a heads-up. I'm going to be at a convention tomorrow through Monday. Please bot me as necessary.
Right. We'll have you charge Zargon when we see it. We'll wrap this module up in no time.
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@ Wallia:
I noticed that you have copied the info from the character sheet I posted. But it looks like you didn't read the note I left you because you didn't get the second part, which is HERE. This has stuff relating to your gear which is not on there.
You had money left over so I spent the rest of it for you; you can change that if you want.
The reason I broke the character sheet into two parts is to allow you to keep the formatting (i.e. the things that are in bold, etc.). If you want to do that, instead of just copying the post off the board, click REPLY. This will give you the entire original post in your text box. If you copy that then you get to keep the formatting of the original post. Just get rid of the quote tags. If I put it all into one post then the REPLY function would cut off the last bit.
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Walia walks toward the passage with the strange angle.
@ Wallia:
FYI we are using a PbP convention called "The Rule of Two." The party is assumed to act as a group but it requires at least two people to agree on a course of action for the party (and no objections by anyone else).
This keeps things moving at a good pace and keeps the party in a group, which is ideal for PbP, and prevents any one character from making binding decisions for the whole group.
If in a post like this it is your intent to leave the group, please say so specifically, so I know not to apply the Rule of Two in this case. If you do plan to split off from the party, I hope you won't do it too often, as it is difficult to manage for your DM (me).
LCDM