Blood Under Absalom (Inactive)

Game Master Granta

Right, but in what order? Our last GM was resolving things in the order posted. Granta, in this last round, has clearly elected to resolve them based on init, not in the order posted. Had this been made clear, it would have been trivial for Vrald and Isonda to delay until after Ara and receive the benefit of a prone Heng.

So from this point forward, it is clear that regardless of who posts first, things are resolved based on init. So this should be taken into account if it matters for buffs, conditions, etc.

Long story short, players may need to make use of delay.

Question: does the oni count as human for favored enemy or for human bane weapons?

Oni are not human. They are outsiders with multiple subtypes (oni, human/giant/whatever(oddly enough), native and shapechanger).

So far as I can see the other subtype (like human or giant) just dictates the typical form they take).

To be human you must be humanoid with the (human) subtype.
Half elves and half orcs count as human as they are have the human subtype in addition to the elf or orc ones.

At least that is my understanding of how bane and Favoured enemy work. To be precise, favoured enemy human would be in humanoid(human).

The Oni entries are a little odd though, as I'm not aware of other outsiders with a human subtype or what that subtype for an outsider actually means in game terms.

You know, I have always from their name thought that subtypes applied to specific types. But I've been digging and digging, and while some subtypes are applied to only various top level types, others are not.

I'm starting to think that it is intended that bane weapons and FE for human/giant/halfing/whatever would apply to all creatures with that subtype regardless of whether their top level type was humanoid, outsider, or something else entirely.

Now I'm curious about whether a human who becomes a vampire would still be vulnerable to a favoured enemy (human) ranger (or human bane weapon). Vampires type changes, but it is unclear whether their subtypes would also move.

For my attacks this round, I will assume those bonuses do not apply then.

I just want you to know I'm still following along. Good to have the break, though!

I'm starting to think that it is intended that bane weapons and FE for human/giant/halfing/whatever would apply to all creatures with that subtype regardless of whether their top level type was humanoid, outsider, or something else entirely.

Funny. I was almost convinced that your original supposition was correct, that it only applied to Humanoids with the subtype Human. For my own edification, I'll ask in one of the Designer threads. I'll continue to add the +4 and the let the GM decide if it applies or not.

I've asked in a rules thread about this as well, but nobody has responded, so either its a tough one (I think it is), nobody has thought about it before (a possibility) or it is so trivial they think I am trolling.

link

Let me know if anything turns up in the designer thread, I'm curious about this one.

Saw your link while I was looking for answers.

You do get your human-related bonuses against the oni. If you didn't, then I don't understand what possible reason or effect there would be to giving the oni a subtype of human.

My move action, this turn, should finish playing the gong. Am I missing something?

Standard, not move

I just want you to know I'm still following along. Good to have the break, though!

Yeah, PbP GMing is a bit of chore compared to playing. I rarely do it. More than a few scenarios have nonsensical instructions or blatant errors that makes it all the more tedious. Specials and PbP game days which involve GM boons are just enough motivation to make me endure it.

@Kallyan,

I believe we found all the cure potions on the creatures we faced, so there should be plenty. If Isonda thinks it's better to save her spells, then Ajax will offer the potions and surrender his before Shel, or Vrald give up theirs.

It's time to roll for boons. If you get a 1 or 20, roll a d3 as well.

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 15

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 1

Woot!

d3: 1d3 ⇒ 1

Boon 1d20 ⇒ 1

Woo!

Number 1d3 ⇒ 1

Prayers to Desna: 1d20 ⇒ 5

Not answered here.

Do DMs roll too?: 1d20 ⇒ 13

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 16

Boo!

Boon: 1d20 ⇒ 17

boon: 1d20 ⇒ 2

So close but so far!

@Ajax: The "Down" Handle Animal command is very different from the "Delay" Special Initiative Action. If you want Ara to delay until after your next turn, that will be a push.

Ara will perform no action if given the Down. So if she takes no action....she's delaying.

Down (DC 15): The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn't know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated.

There's no actual action being taken by the animal.

And technically, If she's in Defend, she's not doing anything if no one attacks Ajax...so once again, she's auto-delaying.

As an FYI,

** Mark Moreland Developer Mar 11, 2013, 03:57 pm | FLAG | LIST

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Mark Moreland Drowning Devil Avatar
A druid or ranger can give its animal companion a command on its own turn and the animal will carry out the direction (if the PC makes the requisite checks) when its initiative comes around. If the animal acts first, it can simply delay until it receives orders. But there's no reason for a PC to ever need to sync up her initiative with her animal companion. Using different initiatives means a player with an animal companion needs to think a bit more tactically about when things are going to go into effect between her two characters, but that's as it should be; they're controlling twice as many creatures as everyone else.

Player Boons
Congrats Sarnoc and Shel!
Check your PM's for your boons.

@GM - Sent some questions via PM

The overseer GM asked me to take over this table. I hope to be your replacement GM for the remainder of the special.

Ajax: please resend your questions to me, thanks!

Thanks for jumping in GM G!!!

I see there has been some discussion about resolving initiative.

I resolve actions in the order that they are posted.

The overseer GM asked me to take over this table. I hope to be your replacement GM for the remainder of the special.

Ajax: please resend your questions to me, thanks!

Fantastic. Glad to have you.

I see there has been some discussion about resolving initiative.

I resolve actions in the order that they are posted.

Thank you for telling us in advance as opposed to waiting until we posted.

Also, I would like to change my order to Ara depending on how you are handling companions.

I am reposting Ajax' questions here. In my opinion the discussion thread is the best place to discuss these things as it makes it clear what the opinion of the GM is on the rules. No offense to anyone intended.

Note that this is not a free ticket to discuss all rules ad nauseam. There is a specific rules forum for that ;-).

1. If order Ara to attack with Spring Attack, can she attack any of the elementals without incurring an AoO from the others, and is it reasonable to think she will take that path?

I always rule that AC's (even with an INT of 3) take the most direct path to attack. I see no reason to change that for spring attack. It is ducking and weaving to avoid the attacks of its direct opponent only. There is a reasonable way to attack green and only get an AoO from Yellow (SE - E), so she will 'only' get one AoO.

2. If I want Ara to delay until my turn, and then move right after I command her, how would I accomplish that? Alternatively, does the ruling I posted from Mark Moreland allow her to auto-delay if she's not given a command?

I agree completely with Mark Moreland's post: without any standing order all companions auto-delay.

Does that answer your question or do you want your companion to act right after you have ordered it but before you take the rest of your turn? The latter is only possible with a ready action, only one actor gets to act at one point in the initiative order (whether a PC, AC, NPC or something else).

Also, I would like to change my order to Ara depending on how you are handling companions.

I am fine with changing the down order to another order that could have been given with a free action from Ajax.

Thanks GMG, and thanks Granta, appreciate your assistance :)

Granta has a con and a pile of other things to prep for, so I have asked Magabeus (GMG) my normal co-conspirator and partner in crime to hop in and get you guys wrapped up.

First off, thank you for the quick responses, and I prefer to ask and get answers in the OOC thread as well.

Does that answer your question or do you want your companion to act right after you have ordered it but before you take the rest of your turn? The latter is only possible with a ready action, only one actor gets to act at one point in the initiative order (whether a PC, AC, NPC or something else).

I'm not trying get a Ready action. Just have Ara act after Ajax completes his turn. Can I assume that Ara is now acting after Ajax?

Is there a trick that you would interpret as allowing Ara to stay in place and be in a Total Defense stance?

Also should ask if there is a trick that you would interpret as allowing Ara to simply block in Total Defense. Perhaps Guard is the trick that would accomplish either?

And...

Would you allow Ara to use Acrobatics (which she's trained in) to avoid AoO's while she's using Spring Attack or moving to engage?

Can I assume that Ara is now acting after Ajax?

Yes

Is there a trick that you would interpret as allowing Ara to stay in place and be in a Total Defense stance?

There is no trick in either Core Rulebook or Animal Archives that does this, but you can push her to do it.

Stay comes the closes, but does not allow it either. I interpret the "prevents others from approaching." from Guard as attacks others if the come too close.

Would you allow Ara to use Acrobatics (which she's trained in) to avoid AoO's while she's using Spring Attack or moving to engage?

Certainly, animals know how to use their skills.

Question from my side: how do you get Ara to follow you? I do not see the follow trick on your profile (link to Myth-weavers is broken) or the handle animal skill. Pushing her everytime seems like a chore...

(I won't make an issue out of it, just being curious)

For your chronicles I have the following information, please let me know if something is incorrect.

Vrald Sehir - Lvl 8 -100387-7 - Sovereign Court - Day Job roll: NA
Sarnoc Blarkros - Lvl 8 -90071-6 - Dark Archive - Day Job roll: 27
Isonda - Lvl 7 -9249-4 - Silver Crusade - Day Job roll: NA
Ajax Arrowhawk - Lvl 8 -43870-1 - Liberty’s Edge - Day Job roll: ?
Kallyan - Lvl 8 -36459-1 - Scarab Sages - Day Job roll: 32
Shel Whispertongue - Lvl 9 -12445-3 - Sovereign Court - Day Job roll: NA

Ajax: I know you might want to go forgo your day job roll to do something on a faction card. Can you take that decision now or do you want to wait until the end of the special?

I also assume you are all at normal advancement. Now is the time to let me know if you are not.

Stay comes the closes, but does not allow it either.

Right, no trick specifically calls it out, it's a question of what the animal would naturally do. If it's not attacking or doing anything specific, would it naturally prevent itself from getting hit? Ara understands Common, so would telling the animal "Stay, but don't let anything hit you" result in the animal going Total Defense of its own accord?

Question from my side: how do you get Ara to follow you?

Ajax gets +17 on HA. Outside of combat, it's a T10 to push the animal. In addition, most GMs, myself included assume the animal will naturally follow their charge. I interpret both Heel and Come to be necessary when something would otherwise deter or discourage the animal from following e.g. a wall of fire, an illusionary wall, etc.

The whole animal companion mechanics is, imo, very unwieldy given the rules. PFS should establish a FAQ dedicated just to behavior. Every time I play this character with a new GM, I essentially have to relearn how to control it because every GM wants to do things differently. From level 4-7 I played Ajax with one GM and after I raised her INT to 3 and put a point in Linguistics so she could understand Common, he was very open-minded about her being able add parameters to basic tricks. e.g. Guard here, Stay there, Attack X but not Y, etc, Down, but don't let yourself get hit.

Fixed Ajax's myth link, and that of Ara's too (on her name in the spoiler box)

Ajax: I know you might want to go forgo your day job roll to do something on a faction card. Can you take that decision now or do you want to wait until the end of the special?

I'll take a look at and see if there is anything I can roll on

Ara understands Common, so would telling the animal "Stay, but don't let anything hit you" result in the animal going Total Defense of its own accord?

'of it's own accord' is the tricky bit. If you tell the animal to do something it is not acting on it's own. It is doing what you tell it to do. Telling it to total defense is a push by the rules.

Don't have time right now to go into the other thing you posted.

Ajax forgoes his day job to nonviolently fight for the cause of liberty by spending time organizing protests, freeing slaves, or distributing revolutionary material.

Doing so requires a successful Disable Device, Knowledge (local), or Stealth check (DC = 15 + your character level).

Stealth(DC =23): 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (19) + 10 = 29 Hopefully doing this in Absalom gives me Favored Terrain Bonus and if allowed, adding Guidance for an additional +5 on the roll which is not included. If those are allowed, than Ajax will simply take 10 for a 25.

Don't have time right now to go into the other thing you posted.

Wasn't actually expecting a response, so no worries.

Feeling a little hard done to here. 30 damage taken on a sunday where i was Gming for my local lodge all day. I go to post my back-off and heal action only to find that we're in another fight and it is no longer my turn...

Isonda, I am sorry that you feel that way. However that is the way that specials are: sometimes other tables' actions cause your fight to end before you even get a chance to act and you roll straight into the next fight.

I could have stayed in the same initiative order, but felt that the disappearance of the elementals and subsequent appearance of the monks enough of a disruption to roll initiative again.

Ajax has Improved Precise Shot, so Ajax knows it isn't actual concealment and since he can see the target, it can't be total concealment. "some sort of displacement" is meant to describe the target not being where I shot at, not meant to signify the spell. Kind of like someone saying, "that caster just launched a fire ball at us."

Even so, I would also submit that since Ajax has +13 on Spellcraft, he would certainly know of the Displacement spell and rationally believe that might be the magical effect, just like mirror image would be pretty obvious.

Ajax knows and can deduce that it is concealment caused by a spell. I thought you meant the actual spell, which would require the Knowledge Arcana roll, therefore I called you out on it.

Knowledge Arcana has a specific DC for identifying a spell that is in place, Spellcraft has no such thing. I am aware that the interaction between Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft is sometimes weird.

Stupid thing is that you need Spellcraft to identify a spell as it is being cast, but then Knowledge Arcana once it is in place. I guess that Spellcraft identifies the motions, verbs spoken and materials used while Knowledge Arcana actually identifies the spell effect.

Ajax knows and can deduce that it is concealment caused by a spell. "

So your statement has me confused.

You described that miss as such,

The third seems to hit the monk but passes through empty air!

As stated, Ajax has this feat:

Improved Precise Shot (Combat)

Your ranged attacks ignore anything but total concealment and cover.

Prerequisites: Dex 19, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks.
Normal: See the normal rules on the effects of cover and concealment in Combat.

If a shooter misses when the shot was visibly on target, I read IPS as allowing a character to definitively know that it can't be because of actual concealment, and Total Concealment means you can't even see the target. Now, I recognizes there are spells that function like concealment, but aren't actually concealment e.g. Entropic Shield, Displacement, Blink (depending) and IPS doesn't work on those spells. So I'm not sure why Ajax would continue to think it was concealment that caused Ajax to miss?

I thought you meant the actual spell, which would require the Knowledge Arcana roll, therefore I called you out on it.

I try to capitalize spells when referring to them so people know that I'm talking about a spell. I wish Paizo used this convention, but instead uses italics, which is more bothersome to use when posting, though I sometimes go that route.

To be completely clear and open: the monk is under the effect of a displacement spell. This is knowledge that your character does not have.

What I meant is that Ajax knows that something causes his arrows to be off although they seemed to be on target. What Ajax conclusion is of this observation is what we are discussing.

I thought the PLAYER meant that the PC knows it is a displacement spell that is causing the miss. This interpretation of mine was caused by the PC using 'displacement' in his shout to his companions. I was not aware of your convention to use capitals when talking about a spell.

That the PLAYER knows it is probably displacement is one thing, I can't do anything about that.

The PC however has to abide by the rules. Even a wizard who casts displacement each combat can not identify the spell effect if he does not make the DC 23 Arcana check (assuming he did not witness the casting). Those are the rules and that is what we have to live with in PFS.

I totally agree that this is weird. but that is what it is. Unfortunately the logic in your aside is not supported by the rules.

What I meant is that Ajax knows that something causes his arrows to be off although they seemed to be on target.

Okay, you meant concealment loosely, not specifically. Just wanted to be sure.

Yep, just as you used displacement loosely, not in mechanical terms.

;-)