[Questions / Help] Rogue "Hit and Run" based on stealth

[Jackson 7th]

Hello boys and girls.

I'm currently trying to build a Hit'n'Run (unchained)RogueX/ShadowDancer1 character.
The concept is rather simple: An Elf (with Darkvision) whose main combat tactics would be Hide >Sneak Attack >Run back >Hide again.
Outside of combat, just a regular scout and skill monkey (no social skill intended).
I want to use the Hit'n'Run tactics in order to take the less risks possible in combat, and thus not investing my ressources on AC and other defenses. The best defense is to actually not being targeted, after all.
It is based off a sample build ("The Unseeable") that you can find in this guide, p143.

So, I had a few questions.

1) Regarding the Wind Stance feat or other feats or means to get some 20% concealment... I guess they do not work if I want to hide using Stealth, am I correct?
I would like to use the powerful Hide In Plain Sight ability of the Shadowdancer to disappear without cover, if I can sneak thanks to concealment.

2) Regarding the spell Dancing Darkness

Dancing Darkness:

You create either up to four spheres of darkness that each reduce the illumination level by one step within a 20-foot-radius, or one dimly lit, vaguely humanoid shape. Each sphere must stay within a 10-foot-radius area of one another but can otherwise move as you desire (no concentration required): forward or back, up or down, straight or turning corners, or the like.

The darkness can move up to 100 feet per round. The effect winks out if the distance between you and it exceeds the spell’s range.

Dancing shadows can be made permanent with a permanency spell (for 5000gp, like Dancing Lights).

I would like to know if I can make that spell permanent in order to have a "vaguely humanoid shape that produces dim light" to follow me around like Peter Pan's shadow, in order to always provide me with a dim light area in which I can hide, that would fuel my sneak attack method. It would also be super cool for a shadowdancer to ACTUALLY HAVE a shadow following me!

3) If I get unlimited uses of Acid Splash (thanks to the Minor Magic unchained rogue talent), can I go around and spam one ranged touch AC sneak attack every round, and go back hiding behind my cover/concealement? or does it get more complicated than that?

4) As of now, my main method of getting sneak attacks is to hit and run using an Elven Branched Spear to get Reach, hide and spring out of my cover to deliver a sneak attack, then run back to safety. I can get that done thanks to Stealth at lower levels, the the Scout Archetype (charge at 4th lvl, and movement at 8th), and Hide in Plain Sight for improved sneaking.
Do you guys have any other good suggestions to make for such a hit'n'run oriented character? or other means to get my tactics running?

Thanks a lot for your contributions and answers.

[avr]

1) Wind stance doesn't give you concealment, just the miss chance, so can't be used for the concealment required to hide, no. You don't need concealment and cover to hide BTW, just one or the other.

2) With the dancing darkness it's like a dark version of dancing lights. Dancing lights can only be made permanent on an 'object or area' rather than on a person - you can't use it to have a glowing figure follow you around as I read it. Similarly for dancing darkness.

3) That works. Remember the penalty for hiding after sniping though; -20 if you have nothing to mitigate it.

4) That sounds like you're getting one attack every two rounds. Which is bad. Assuming you're not operating solo flanking is a more reliable & faster way to get sneak attack; the press to the wall feat works even if you are operating solo. A ninja may be able to turn invisible as a swift action when they need to do some damage fast & is actually compatible with the scout archetype. If you can persuade your GM to make or use an 'unchained' version of the ninja it should be worth doing so. If you continue in shadowdancer to level 3 you get a shadow which can help with the flanking.

[AlastarOG]

Also elf rogue can take major magic for vanish, invisible as a swift action .

[Jackson 7th]

AlastarOG wrote:

Also elf rogue can take major magic for vanish, invisible as a swift action .

Yes ! I definitely was going to do that. I am not familiar with Vanish, but now that i see it is a Swift Action it makes it very interesting

[avr]

Vanish isn't a swift action unless you're a ninja using a particular ninja trick, Alastar's mistaken. Dazzling blade is a swift action for a different means of getting sneak attack though.

[SmiloDan]

You can eventually take Quicken Spell-Like Ability for vanish.

In 3.5, I played a 3.5 ninja that used Spring Attack and Shot on the Run to get a sneak attack every round by moving and hiding from spot to spot. I think I also had a swift action invisibility power, too.

Can you multiclass ninja/rogue? Or take a ninja trick as a rogue talent to get Vanish?

Also, is there a rogue trick that reduces the Stealth penalty for sniping? Or lets you run and hide? Or both?

[Scott Wilhelm]

.

[Slim Jim]

You're definitely going to want the Bandit archetype, and the Quick Shot advanced-talent.

[avr]

SmiloDan wrote:

You can eventually take Quicken Spell-Like Ability for vanish.

True, I forgot that. Minimum 10th level though & it takes a feat.

SmiloDan wrote:

Can you multiclass ninja/rogue? Or take a ninja trick as a rogue talent to get Vanish?

No to the multiclass. You can take a ninja trick as a rogue talent, though to get the ki to power it you'd need a second rogue talent (ki pool) which isn't normally available to unchained rogues, or to multiclass as something else with a ki pool, or to take the eldritch scoundrel rogue archetype.

SmiloDan wrote:

Also, is there a rogue trick that reduces the Stealth penalty for sniping? Or lets you run and hide? Or both?

The stealthy sniper rogue talent reduces the sniping penalty to -10 and there's a few feats & other things which help. Mostly race-specific (& not elven) IIRC. There's a fast getaway talent which lets you withdraw as a move action after making a sneak attack.

[PhD. Okkam]

eldritch scoundrel - the only decent option for creating a rogue

[Scott Wilhelm]

This is kind of a rough draft. There are a whole lot of cool things on my mind for accomplishing this that I'm struggling to fit into a single build.

Human
1Brawler1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Snakebite Striker, Sneak Attack 1d6, Martial Cunning, BAB+1
2B1Ninja1: Sneak Attack +1d6
3B1N2: Ninja Vanishing Trick, False Attacker, BAB+2

I was thinking that in the first round of combat, you would use Stealth to find a good hiding place, maybe Vanishing first. Then you would just make Ranged Attacks invisibly from your hiding place, doing Sneak Attack each time. False Attacker lets you make a Bluff Check each round to fool your targets that the attack is coming from somewhere else, so you don't lose Stealth and can keep Attacking Flatfooted AC and keep doing Sneak Attack Damage.

4B1N2Arcanist1: Dimensional Slide, Spells, Ability +1

Dimensional Slide is a 10' Teleport that you can do as part of your Move, and you don't get disoriented like you do with Dimension Door. This doesn't nearly have the same range of DimDor, but 10' is usually enough to do such things as get inside an oppoent's Reach or achieve Flanking.

Plus, now you can forget about Use Magic Device: you can straight up just use any Sorcerer or Wizard Wand. And you can use Cantrips as much as you please. In conjunction with Vanishing Trick and False Attacker, use those Ranged Touch Attack Cantrips vs. Flatfooted AC that also do Sneak Attack Damage. Maybe get a Robe of Needles that also make Ranged Touch Attacks and give opponents a 1 point Bleed, or invest in a Wand of Scorching Ray.

And bear in mind that you are getting all this stuff by level 4: how long does it take to get this as a Shadowdancer?

5B1N2A1Monk1 Drunken Quinngong Master of Many Styles, Panther Style, Unarmed 1d6, Monk Stuff, Combat Reflexes
6B1N2A1M2: Evasion, Ascetic or Snake Style, BAB+3
7B1N2A1M3: Drunken Ki, Maneuver Training, Accomplished Sneak Attacker(+1d6), BAB+4

Vanishing costs a Ki Point. Drunken Ki lets you replenish your Ki endlessly. Also, with Panther Style Feats, you get bonus Attacks by Provoking Attacks of Opportunity by Moving out of Threatened Squares. You can use your Ki to increase your AC. You can use your Dimensional Slide to help you Move into the perfect positions for Flanking and getting inside Reach.

8B1N3A1M3: Sneak Attack +1d6, BAB+5
9B1N3A1M3Cavalier1: Constable, Tactician, Challenge, Broken Wing Gambit, Panther Claw, BAB+6

Broken Wing Gambit gives you an Attack of Opportunity pretty much whenever someone attacks you. And with the Cavalier Tactician ability, everyone in your party gets an attack of opportunity whenever any of you is attacked!

Cavaliers can wear Heavy Armor, which you might want to do if you are drawing lots of Attacks of Opportunity. You can change you mind about that quickly: Swift Girding is a Spell a level 1 Acanist can cast.

Panther Claw bonus Attacks are not Attacks of Opportunity, and they have seperate triggers: you can both score Free Action Retaliatory Strikes up to your Wisdom Mod and make Attacks of Opportunity off of BWG up to your Dex Mod!

10B2N3A1M3C1: Dirty Fighting, BAB+7
11B3N3A1M3C1: Snake Feint: Improved Feint, BAB+8

Feinting is a classic way to secure your Sneak Attack Damage. Snake Feint + Improved Feint let you Feint for free while you move.

[djdust]

Feats: Spring Attack, Spring-Heeled Style

Also look into URogue (shadow walker)

being a fetchling also helps.

I'm pretty sure you'll at a minimum be Rogue 5/ Shadowdancer 1 if you go that route.

[AlastarOG]

avr wrote:

Vanish isn't a swift action unless you're a ninja using a particular ninja trick, Alastar's mistaken. Dazzling blade is a swift action for a different means of getting sneak attack though.

You are quite correct, that's what I get for only perusing the rogue's guide.