If a feat augments an unarmed strike ascetic style applies that to the chosen melee weapon.
At level 5 the ascetic style applies to all monk weapons, not just the weapon chosen with weapon focus.
Does this mean that if you use weapon focus unarmed and where to later pick up improved critical these would now apply to all monk weapons under ascetic style because these are feats augmenting an unarmed strike?
The line in question from Ascetic Style is, "feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite"
while Improved Critical lists these requirements, "Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8."
So even if the weapon in question is an unarmed strike, Improved Unarmed Strike itself is not a prerequisite and this combination is not valid.
It goes on to say
"as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks."
This is everything including magic items. But the writer of the feat clarified that his intent was.
"“While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as any feat that augments an unarmed strike.”
So even as intended it still seems that this would work.
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If something can be parsed two different ways and the intent of the designer is known to be one of those two ways, then you should go with the intent of the designer.
The line in question from Ascetic Style is, "feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite"
while Improved Critical lists these requirements, "Proficient with weapon, base attack bonus +8."
So even if the weapon in question is an unarmed strike, Improved Unarmed Strike itself is not a prerequisite and this combination is not valid.
It goes on to say
"as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks."
This is everything including magic items. But the writer of the feat clarified that his intent was.
"“While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as any feat that augments an unarmed strike.”
So even as intended it still seems that this would work.
If the portion mentioning effects that augment an unarmed strike was meant to include feats that did NOT have IUS as a prerequisite than the entire line before it has no effect and only only cluttering word waste.
I actually thought that myself but there are feats or at least one feat that includes improved unarmed attack as a perequisite but does not augment unarmed strikes.
Perfect strike, it has the ability to allow you to reroll attacks with specific weapons. If you have ascetic form you can reroll with the weapon tied to weapon focus.
If the portion mentioning effects that augment an unarmed strike was meant to include feats that did NOT have IUS as a prerequisite than the entire line before it has no effect and only only cluttering word waste.
Wrong. Your #1 is for feats like Stunning Fist, which doesn't enhance UAS, but basically trigger on unarmed strikes, and feats like Scorpion Style, which allow special unarmed attacks.
If you have a developer comment on the feat can you link it or copy the post chain about it?
@James Risner: Sorry, but that is not correct. The author's intend was "While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as any feat that augments an unarmed strike."
RAW, Perfect Strike does work - it's similar to options that offer the benefits of Weapon Finesse for normally non-finessable weapons.
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If a feat augments an unarmed strike ascetic style applies that to the chosen melee weapon.
At level 5 the ascetic style applies to all monk weapons, not just the weapon chosen with weapon focus.
Does this mean that if you use weapon focus unarmed and where to later pick up improved critical these would now apply to all monk weapons under ascetic style because these are feats augmenting an unarmed strike?
Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike) will apply their effects to all Monk weapons, that is correct.
Brings up an interesting idea of whether Weapon Focus (US) and Weapon Focus (monk weapon) will stack.
Even if you count multiple feats of the same name as different sources, there is still the "Its effects do not stack." line in the special section. Every single feat that I see that could stack has that line.
What does work (confirmed by the author, althouth not intended) is that the weapon's magical bonuses stack with magical bonuses from an AoMF (just like projectile weapons and ammunition).
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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It seems that Alexander Augunas did not intend for Ascetic Style to bring in "any effect that augments unarmed strike" but was referring instead to class abilities that augment unarmed strikes.
Put another way, they learned via the Feral Combat Training feat that using that "any effect that augments unarmed strike" was wildly interpreted differently than written. So they changed FCT and accidentally put the old wording in Ascetic.
It will get errata to match FCT, it is just an amount of time.
except for the third link which oddly enough looks like it leads to a disussion but ended up dumping me at Paizo.com
For some reason, the forum code changes the link. This is the correct link (look at the last entry on the list).
Here is the author post confirming that AoMF and magic weapon stack.One thing we have to consider is that the author's intend does not affect what the feats do. The author of the Sohei archetype has stated that it was never intended for a Sohei to be able to flurry in armor, yet the official FAQ says the exact opposite. Likewise, the author of the Invulnerable Rager archetype added Improved Damage Reduction to the list of suggested rage powers and thus clearly intended it to work, but the official FAQ says the exact opposite.
Another important thing is that Alexander Augunas's statements are contradictory (on the forum, he said 'class abilities and feats', while on his blog, he only wrote 'feats') so it's impossible to determine a definite RAI.
If the feat does not list Improved Unarmed Strike than that feat is left out.
Neither the actual version nor the intended version say that. The intended version would only change "effects that augment" to either "feats and class features that augment" or "feats that augment". That part and the "feats with IUS as prereq" part are independant from each other.
As written, Ascetic Style works like this for a monk:
Monk class features that now work with the weapon
● Stunning Fist
● Ki Pool's DR penetration
● The scaling damage
● Dealing full strength on off hand attacks (never relevant).
Other things that now work with the weapon:
● Feats like that enhance US, e.g. Weapon Focus
● Feats like that have IUS as a prereq, e.g. Hex Striker
● Traits that enhance US, e.g. Bullied
● Items that enhance US, e.g. Amulet of Mighty Fist
● Spells that enhance US, e.g. Magic Fang
Monk class features that do not work with Ascetic Style:
● The extra attack from Ki Pool
● Style Strikes
● Ki Blocker, One Touch, and Quivering Palm
● Flurry of Blows (only relevant for tri-point double-edged sword and urumi).
All of these are 'unlocked' by Ascetic Form, though.
Thing I'm not sure about:
● The ability to deal nonlethal damage without penalty (on one hand, that basically comes from the general rules for US, but on the other hand, it it explicitly mentioned in the Unarmed Strike class feature)
● Weapon Finesse
● Effects that only apply to natural attacks - the "is treated as (...) a natural weapon [blah]" line does make US better, but only indirectly.
If what you say is true than this is a really horribly written feat, you could cut out between a third and a half of the text and end up with something that at least reads easier. you basically have to ignore an entire line just to figure out what it does as the IUS thing is just a typo. "Effects" is not a defined game term and can refer to just about anything. that makes the feat extremely broad and a little bonkers.
That's why it's banned in PFS.
Well that and PFS has a pretty heavy anti martial bent.
Maybe, but I haven't noticed that. They surely hate summoners.
It's true that "effects" is not defined and thus not a smart choice of word (which is why it's banned in PFS, why the author regrets using it, and why we're having this discussion).
As a guideline, we know for a fact that the monk's increased unarmed damage does fall under "effects that augment an unarmed strike".
the IUS thing is just a typo.
Nope, that line is actually important for feats like Hex Strike.
The language of the feat, "Special: A 5th-level monk...can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, in addition to the chosen melee weapon."
Would also seem to indicate that a 5+ monk could use the feat with shuriken allowing stunning fist, etc. at range.
As written, pre the expected correction, it is also one more way for the brawling enchantment on armor to make all the other unarmed fighting classes better than monks.
Yes, all the stuff I listed above works with throwable monk weapons if one fulfills the criteria in Ascetic Style's special section (although many things could be done before with Ki Focus weapons). No monk weapon has a range increment above 20 ft, though, and without either DEX focus or a Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling, the accuracy will be rather low.
With Ascetic Style, Crusader's Flurry, and a dip into Cleric of Erastil, a Monk could even make Stunning Fists at longbow range (something that previously required a Zen Archer of 17th level).
Ascetic Style can do a lot of funny things, but most of the cool ones take way to many feats (like taking Martial Focus and Weapon Style Mastery to use Jabbing Style with a weapon).
It should be noted that Ascetic Form and Ascetic Strike don't have similar special sections and thus only ever work with the chosen melee weapon (so no ranged Leg Sweep with shurikens, although deer horn knife et al. work).
Brawling Armor got nerfed significantly, and wasn't that good even before.
What "other unarmed fighting classes" benefit from Brawling armor, and for what purpose? I mean, sure, it's very well possible that UnMonk is not the best shuriken thrower out there, but who makes a dedicated shuriken thrower? And would such a non-monk shuriken thrower even use Ascetic Style (and not, for instance, Startoss Style)?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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As a guideline, we know for a fact that the monk's increased unarmed damage does fall under "effects that augment an unarmed strike".
We also know that the FAQ you linked is intended to be compatible with the ultimate change in FCT. In other words, the "in style" interpretation at the time that the monk unarmed die step up did not apply to the base natural die. In other words a 20th level monk could use his monk unarmed or the 1d8 base bite but not bump the 1d8 up X times.