An Actual Civil Discussion Space for Touchy Topics.

[Orfamay Quest]

thejeff wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

For example, a {pre-op trans biological male/identifies as female person} may declare "I AM female!" and become angry if anyone seems to question that statement. But if I identify as a god (to choose an absurd example), rather than as a mortal, and I declare "I AM a god!" -- no one will support me on that statement, even if I dress up like Osiris.

Yes, but...

The "I am a god" analogy, or the more common reference to therians/Otherkin, doesn't really hold up. There's an awful lot of evidence that there really is something physical going on with gender dysphoria and that presenting as the appropriate gender, hormone treatment and to a lesser extent surgery are effective treatments. There are even fairly solid theories about the causes.

That there's a cause for gender dysphoria doesn't mean that they "ARE" the other sex. If neurologists could identify something physical that underlies the Otherkin phenomenon, that still wouldn't make them mice or rabbits or whatever, as any biologist would be able to point out.

Similarly, there's definitely something underlying the "phantom pain" phenomenon in amputees, but the fact that someone can feel pain in a missing arm doesn't make their arm not missing, and it doesn't really do any good for people to pretend that they've got an actual arm.

[LazarX]

Jeff Harris 982 wrote:

@ LazarX,

In no way did I every say they did (none of us, that is all humans, control such things), I would kindly ask you refrain from putting words in my mouth, I did request civil discussion, and I have been nothing but, I would appreciate the same.

I have been nothing BUT civil to you. Again this is your quote. I have discussed facts. If you choose to be upset about them, that's YOUR choice, not my requirement.

Jeff Harris 982 wrote:

Ok, again, fair to say, but I will argue, how is it MY niche, I did nothing to gain admittance to it other than be born as I am. I have never and will never be "that guy that is literally the patriarchy in a nut shell."

Yes you were born in to that niche. So is everyone that is biologically homosexual, trans, genderfluid. At least that is what science is beginning to confirm what many people already believe as a certain.

Your niche is your niche because you were born into it. That's pretty much how it works for everyone. You got born into a niche that's the favored one... When I say that it's a fact.. you have to accept that for just that... not an accusation that you somehow stole your way into "favored status". I'm seeing the same kind of defensive reaction that many white male thrown up when white privilige is discussed.

White Privilege exists... in this country, it has always existed. Being a white male is the superior form of that privilege... being born into a rich white male family is the pinnacle of it. But even a poor white male has signficant advantage over a man of color whose economic status may be a rung or two above his own. (we won't even get into the relative position of women, white or otherwise) The amount and the significance of privilege has evolved, but it hasn't gone away by a long shot. I'm not asking anything other than a bit of self honest reflection.

You started this thread because you're feeling defensive about being called out as privileged. No one here is asking you to feel guilty about your privilege. It's your choice on what you do with that knowledge.

[Jeff Harris 982]

@KingOfAnything

That is a really good set of questions, I will have to think about that. See, this is the sort of dialogue that IMO is worth having.

[Chris Lambertz]

The assumption that "cis" (shortened for "cisgender") is a derogatory term is an issue here—we do not consider it to be an insult on our forums. However, the term "cis scum" is absolutely not appropriate for use on our site in reference to another individual/community member. The premise of this thread has flaws because of the suggestion that both of these terms have the same connotation. Additionally, tacking on "but not *all* of these people" doesn't absolve an argument that is inherently defaming of multiple groups. A more fruitful discussion (and one in the spirit of learning more about other groups), may be narrowing down specific instances you can think of to discuss, or discussing specific terms and their connotations (framed in a way like "what does this mean to you?" or "how do you feel about this?" or "hey, does anyone know the history behind this?"). After reviewing this thread, we've made the decision to lock it for now.