Okay, guys. I've been reading RotRL lately and a thought came to me. I want to create a magic using character that can represent Lust (aka an enchanter). However, I do have a couple ideas around this. Here are a couple of parameters:
1) The character's background is that he's either a descendant of Sorshen, the Runelord of Lust or that he's one of the most gifted enchanters since Sorshen.
2) I want to play as a male human sorcerer. Now, I know that you guys would recommend the Arcane Bloodline, Fey Bloodline, or any other bloodlines that have a lean towards enchantment. However, I want something more unique and interesting. So, I'm asking you guys to create a Succubus Bloodline (or Incubus Bloodline, if you want to call it that). Now I know what you guys are going to say: use the Abyssal Bloodline. But from what I have seen and read, that is used mainly used for melee sorcerers and/or summoning sorcerers. What I want is an enchantment spell focused bloodline with a demon theme, the Succubus in particular.
3) Are there any feats, skills, spells, and the like that you guys can recommend?
Let me know! And thank you ahead of time.
Beguiling gift and elixir/philter of love work well in combination. There's the headband of seduction as well.
The Sin Magic Specialist(Lust) is flavorful, but it prohibits two fairly useful schools, and it uses Intelligence as its casting stat, not Charisma.
The various emotion spells are right up your alley, as are vampiric touch, charm/dominate person, and enervation/energy drain.
Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, and Intimidate are good.
No, really?
Hey, guys. Thanks for the feedback so far. I want to address some of your input:
1) Mathaius, I have looked at the Lust school. While I do like the Thassilon Specialist (making a Conjurer Thassilon Specialist for any Shattered Star games I may join), there are a few concerns. I do like the Specialist gaining additional spell slots in exchange for two forbidden schools. And I like the fact that you still gain your school or subschool powers. However, when I read about the enchantment school for Pathfinder and about Sorshen and how she was described, it seems like enchantment would be a school that should be connected to Charisma. Also, wizards don't get any Charisma based skills. So that might be a problem
2) I want to play as a sorcerer. I know that means that I would have a low amount of skill points, but I would have several Charisma based skills, Bluff and Intimidate included. I can always pick up Diplomacy with a trait. I want to make an enchantment sorcerer that also works as the party face.
3) Ipslore, your recommendations for items and spells seem to be good. Anything else?
4) I want to use a Succubus bloodline. The idea is that the character basically has lust flowing in his veins (being descended from Sorshen and a succubus or incubus). I'm asking you guys to help create the bloodline. If I have to make it myself, can anyone lead me to a guide on how to make a bloodline without it being overpowered or give me some advice?
Again, thank you for your help.
I suggest you try something similar to the Rakshasa bloodline and reflavor or switch out stuff for Bluff/Diplomacy to taste.
Alter self, disguise self, and glibness are also useful.
Redjack and Ipslore, I know about the Rakshasa bloodline. And I like it. I made a human Rakshasa sorcerer for any CotCT games I join. However, rakshasas are more deceitful and manipulative than lustful. While succubi are deceitful and manipulative, they are regarded as the epitome of lust. And that's what I'm looking for. A sorcerer who could be considered as a male Sorshen or a mortal succubus (or incubus, if you want to be politically correct). My thought process is that if I'm creating my own bloodline, then I'm going to be combining elements from the Abyssal and Rakshasa bloodlines. Also, Redjack, my race is going to be a human. Though if you can suggest something else, let me know.
Doug, wow. This is amazing. Thank you so much. This gives me such a great starting point to work with. I'll work on it as soon as I can.
Instead of Claws, maybe as a 1st level power you might gain something like this?:
Skindance (Su): At 1st level, you can assume the appearance of a humanoid of the same size category as per alter self, but do not gain any additional senses, movement abilities, or bonuses to attributes. This ability does not alter gear. The uncomfortable transformation to an assumed form (or reversion to your original form) takes 5 rounds to complete, during which you are considered staggered. You remain in an assumed form even while unconscious, but revert to your natural form upon death. You can skindance a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier or your sorcerer level, whichever is lower (minimum 1).
I like it!
What was the article in Wayfinder?
Doug M.
My skindancer entry in the bestiary section.
Very nice idea, Ambrosia. My concern, however, is would it be considered overpowered by GMs. Also, Doug, nice selection of spells and feats. In terms of a ninth feat, I think Spell Penetration would work fine. However, I have a question about one of the feats. What use is a feat like Weapon Finesse to me? This is the same for the Rakshasa Bloodline, too. I mean, let's think about it. I'm a sorcerer. I have no proficiency in elven curve blades, whips, rapiers, or spiked chains. I do have proficiency in simple weapons, so using my dexterity bonus instead of my strength bonus for the light weapon category is good. But I'm most likely going to be shying away from melee combat. Could someone explain sorcerers getting weapon finesse to someone who doesn't seem to get it?
Yeah -- and I might be biased 'cause it was my idea ;) -- but I can't see how a slightly-better disguise self as a bloodline ability is overpowered. Maybe if it was a non-caster grabbing it through Eldritch Heritage, but then they are opting for a magical disguise (that doesn't grant any bonus to movement, attributes, size, or natural attacks) over a far better feat that would likely improve their effectiveness in combat. A sorcerer would likely be better served by a bloodline power that improves their CL or DC with certain spells or an arcane bond.
If it still seems too powerful (and it doesn't even resize gear), I wouldn't nerf it any lower than 1 hour/level, the same as the similar but more powerful witch's Disguise hex.
---
With the succubus' drain touch attach and a high Dex, Weapon Finesse and Combat Reflexes are good feats, and something worth considering for moderately-good Dex sorcerers as well. Agile Maneuvers definitely isn't, at least for a non-heavily modified succubus or a full caster. (I think Monte and the other 3.x designers vastly over-estimated the effectiveness of grappling and other maneuvers even by full BAB classes.) I'd throw in Spell Focus (Enchantment) and maybe Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) as possible bonus bloodline feats too.
All right, good feedback so far guys! I'm still putting my thoughts on this together so if you can suggest more ideas, then lay them on me!
I missed something in alter self's transition to Pathfinder rules, so maybe make the 1st level bloodline power instead something like this?:
Pleasing Shape (su): At 1st level, you can assume the appearance of a humanoid of the same size category as per alter self, but do not gain any additional senses, movement abilities, natural armor, or bonuses to attributes. If an assumed form possesses natural attacks, you may only make them using your BAB and iterative attack progression. This ability does not alter gear. The uncomfortable transformation to an assumed form (or reversion to your original form) takes 5 rounds to complete, during which you are considered staggered. You remain in an assumed form even while unconscious, but revert to your natural form upon death. You can change your shape a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier or your sorcerer level, whichever is lower (minimum 1).
Then maybe for the 3rd level bloodline power, what about this?:
Enervating Touch (sp): At 3rd level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, Combat Maneuver Bonus and Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting). This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level. Multiple touches do not stack, but they do add to the duration. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
I thought about reversing Pleasing Shape and Enervating Touch, but I think the latter is a bit too powerful for 1st level. Then maybe as Doug suggested?:
Wings of the Abyss (Su): At 9th level, you can sprout bat-like wings and fly for a number of minutes per day equal to your sorcerer level, with a speed of 60 feet and good maneuverability. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.
And then?:
Tempter's Resistance (Su): At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your sorcerer level + 10.
---
Something to think about at least.
Here's what I came up with so far. I don't know about a capstone yet. Ambrosia, your idea is interesting, but seems a bit short for a capstone. I don't know. I feel like there should be more.
Succubus Bloodline
At some point in your family’s past, one of your ancestors was seduced by a succubus or an incubus. Whether or not the demon was revealed or it truly fell in love over time, this influence is particularly strong in you, resulting in bestowing you magic and powers reminiscent of the seductresses of the Abyss, fighting off their lustful nature. Despite this, you use your powers to shape your destiny (and alignment).
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes)
Bonus Spells: Charm Person (3rd), Detect Thoughts (5th), Suggestion (7th), Charm Monster (9th), Dominate (11th), Summon Monster VI (13th), Limited Wish (15th), Greater Planar Binding (17th), Overwhelming Presence (19th)
Bonus Feats: Augment Summoning, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Empower Spell, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Iron Will, Persuasive, Skill Focus (Knowledge [Planes]), Weapon Finesse
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell from the charm subschool, the spell lasts twice as long.
Bloodline Powers: You can call on the subtle powers of your succubi ancestors, giving the ability to seduce and deceive your foes, while empowering yourself with the taint of the Abyss.
Pleasing Shape (Su): At 1st level, you can assume the appearance of a humanoid of the same size category as per alter self, but do not gain any additional senses, movement abilities, natural armor, or bonuses to attributes. If an assumed form possesses natural attacks, you may only make them using your BAB and iterative attack progression. This ability does not alter gear. The uncomfortable transformation to an assumed form (or reversion to your original form) takes 5 rounds to complete, during which you are considered staggered. You remain in an assumed form even while unconscious, but revert to your natural form upon death. You can change your shape a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier or your sorcerer level, whichever is lower (minimum 1).
Demon Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist electricity 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against poison. At 9th level, your resistance to electricity increases to 10 and your bonus on poison saving throws increases to +4.
Wings of the Abyss (Su): At 9th level, you can sprout leathery wings and fly for a number of minutes per day equal to your sorcerer level, with a speed of 60 feet and good maneuverability. This duration does not need to be consecutive, buy it must be used in 1-minute increments.
I'm sorry, Ambrosia. I thought that sorcerer bloodlines capped at level 15. Your idea is good.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Updated:
Succubus Bloodline
At some point in your family’s past, one of your ancestors was seduced by a succubus or an incubus. Whether or not the demon was revealed or it truly fell in love over time, this influence is particularly strong in you, resulting in bestowing you magic and powers reminiscent of the seductresses of the Abyss, fighting off their lustful nature. Despite this, you use your powers to shape your destiny (and alignment).
Class Skill: Knowledge (planes)
Bonus Spells: Charm Person (3rd), Detect Thoughts (5th), Suggestion (7th), Charm Monster (9th), Dominate (11th), Summon Monster VI (13th), Limited Wish (15th), Greater Planar Binding (17th), Overwhelming Presence (19th)
Bonus Feats: Augment Summoning, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Empower Spell, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Iron Will, Persuasive, Skill Focus (Knowledge [Planes]), Weapon Finesse
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell from the charm subschool, the spell lasts twice as long.
Bloodline Powers: You can call on the subtle powers of your succubi ancestors, giving the ability to seduce and deceive your foes, while empowering yourself with the taint of the Abyss.
Pleasing Shape (Su): At 1st level, you can assume the appearance of a humanoid of the same size category as per alter self, but do not gain any additional senses, movement abilities, natural armor, or bonuses to attributes. If an assumed form possesses natural attacks, you may only make them using your BAB and iterative attack progression. This ability does not alter gear. The uncomfortable transformation to an assumed form (or reversion to your original form) takes 5 rounds to complete, during which you are considered staggered. You remain in an assumed form even while unconscious, but revert to your natural form upon death. You can change your shape a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier or your sorcerer level, whichever is lower (minimum 1).
Demon Resistances (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist electricity 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws made against poison. At 9th level, your resistance to electricity increases to 10 and your bonus on poison saving throws increases to +4.
Wings of the Abyss (Su): At 9th level, you can sprout leathery wings and fly for a number of minutes per day equal to your sorcerer level, with a speed of 60 feet and good maneuverability. This duration does not need to be consecutive, buy it must be used in 1-minute increments.
Tempter’s Resistance (Su): At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your sorcerer level + 10.
Demonic Might (Su): At 20th level, the power of the Abyss flows through you. You gain immunity to electricity and poison. You also gain resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, and gain telepathy with a range of 60 feet (allowing you to communicate with any creature that can speak a language). You also gain the Energy Drain ability, like your succubus ancestor.
Bump.
I am actually trying your bloodline out this saturday, we have a skulls and shackles group that is beginning to meet regularly. My character is tiefling sorcerer and she is supposed to be half-succubus, she has become the ships "morale officer". Was using brutal BL but got permission to try this one out so i will let you know how it goes, fits my concept of her much better.
|
Redjack and Ipslore, I know about the Rakshasa bloodline. And I like it. I made a human Rakshasa sorcerer for any CotCT games I join. However, rakshasas are more deceitful and manipulative than lustful. While succubi are deceitful and manipulative, they are regarded as the epitome of lust. And that's what I'm looking for. A sorcerer who could be considered as a male Sorshen or a mortal succubus (or incubus, if you want to be politically correct). My thought process is that if I'm creating my own bloodline, then I'm going to be combining elements from the Abyssal and Rakshasa bloodlines. Also, Redjack, my race is going to be a human. Though if you can suggest something else, let me know.
Actually I homebrewed a race that's part succubus/incubus called the Cambion. They're ALL about seduction and they're racial abilities reflect that. Plus I think there actually is a third party supplement that has a succubus bloodline. If you'd like to check the Cambion here they are:
Cambion V.2:
NEW RACE: CAMBION (humanoid, outsider, native (3 rp): Cambions are born of the blood of demons, typically through the mating of an incubus/succubus and a human though the bloodline can manifest at anytime in a given family if there was ever demonic contact with an incubus or succubus. Cambions tend to be quite persuasive in their ability to convince others to do what they want and are known to have quite the temptation for pleasure in many forms. Many give into this temptation, while there are those that do not and choose a chaste life (note: these are actually somewhat rare).
Cambions are not well trusted by most societies as they have a natural affinity for seduction and many make no secret of their contempt for chastity and monogamy,,as well as their demonic lineage. Most Cambions outright reject the idea of predestination and insist that they choose their own way, even if it be that of the damned. On the subject of the gods the Cambions find themselves mixed. Some reach out in a means to cleanse themselves of the demonic taint, while others reject the gods outright and sneer at their involvement in the world, claiming that they only do so in the vain hopes that mortals will fall down and worship them.
Cambions come from every walk of life and can enter any profession. Some of the greatest heroes and villains of the past have been those who were of tainted blood, but all made the choice to follow their star to the end. It is a choice most Cambions would heartily agree with.
Appearance: Cambion males tend to stand just over human normal in height, ending at around 6'10” and weighing in at the average for that height. Females tend to be somewhat smaller. They are known to have deep bronze skin, red within red eyes , pointed ears and slightly elongated canines. They are well known for their great beauty, charisma and keen wit when in social situations.
Racial Qualities:
Darkvision 60ft
Low Light Vison (1 rp)
Native outsiders breathe, eat and sleep
Medium Sized
Normal Speed
+2 Cha, +2 Con, -2 Wis (while Cambions are naturally charming and somewhat durable they sometimes lack impulse control and can make poor decisions based preconceived notions)
Languages: Linguist (1 rp) Common, Abyssal, (any other language except secret ones)
Racial Traits:
Fiendish Resistance: cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, fire resistance 5 (2 rp)
Silver Tongued: +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks. May shift a creature's attitude three steps rather than just two (3 rp)
Object of Desire: Cambions add +1 caster level when casting charm person and charm monster. (1 rp)
Seducer: +1 to the saving throw DC for their spells and spell like abilities of the enchantment school. If the Cambion has a Wis of 15 or higher he may use charm person 1/day as a spell like ability (caster level equal to user's character level) (2 rp)
I am actually trying your bloodline out this saturday, we have a skulls and shackles group that is beginning to meet regularly. My character is tiefling sorcerer and she is supposed to be half-succubus, she has become the ships "morale officer". Was using brutal BL but got permission to try this one out so i will let you know how it goes, fits my concept of her much better.
Wow. Thanks for letting me know. Odd that my thread helped you make a character. Can't wait to hear your stories!
Well, so far it did not make much difference other than minor damage output reduction, really haven't been to the point of doing a lot of social encounters since the change over, that , and the gm only had the book for a day or so to pre-read what we had to do. We are in the sandbox section of the second book now. I am betting she won't get to really shine until we get to the point of the party we have to host in a later book.
I definitely do like the feel of her now though, even though the changes haven't really stood out yet, I think they will fit really well. I see her using the Pleasing Form ability on a regular basis when she is pleasuring the ships crew in the evenings. Most of that is in the back ground though.
It did get entertaining when we finally had some humanoid enemies to fight again. I have a spell I wrote that I am allowed to try called Pleasurable Touch, that allows me to shut down an enemy for the combat if I continue to use my standard action to touch them each round and they fail a new save, a nat 1 or nat 20 on their save has some potentially dire, and entertaining, consequences. In one fight I hit an enemy with unnatural lust, he failed and I had him target me, told them to "let him through" as I pointed, he failed and by the time the spell ended next round the fight was over. Second fight I did the same thing but got my pleasurable touch spell off and kept him shut down for the fight by doing that.
I have managed to get such a high charisma score going at this point that my 1st level spell dcs are 20s, so if I target a weak save, odds are they will fail. Because of this, in two combats Nisha basically stood there making out with one of the enemies to reduce their numbers, which is basically what she is there to do as a controller type build.
All right. Very interesting. Can't wait to hear what happens next. Has anything about the bloodline been problematic?
Not thus far, but as I said, it will be a while until we get to a point in the series where the abilities will really shine I think. I wish the arcana covered a bit more in the way of spells since there are so few that it actually affects but with the power of charms/compulsions/mind-affecting spells when properly used, limiting it to charm sub-school only is a very good thing I think.
When we do get to the point of the more intrigue sections of the story I believe that the design is going to be immensely useful and come into it's own, I can already see using the first level ability to shape change into a maid or other "invisible" person, spy on others when they are talking, and then use that info. Even if they realize who had to have heard it, they still need to find her, and since the servant doesn't really exist and Nisha is very circumspect about letting it be known she can do this, it will make it very interesting to see what happens then.
Not thus far, but as I said, it will be a while until we get to a point in the series where the abilities will really shine I think. I wish the arcana covered a bit more in the way of spells since there are so few that it actually affects but with the power of charms/compulsions/mind-affecting spells when properly used, limiting it to charm sub-school only is a very good thing I think.
When we do get to the point of the more intrigue sections of the story I believe that the design is going to be immensely useful and come into it's own, I can already see using the first level ability to shape change into a maid or other "invisible" person, spy on others when they are talking, and then use that info. Even if they realize who had to have heard it, they still need to find her, and since the servant doesn't really exist and Nisha is very circumspect about letting it be known she can do this, it will make it very interesting to see what happens then.
So what happened since we last spoke? Anything interesting?
Some ideas for arcana:
If the sorcerer has higher charisma than the target of any mind affecting spell, the DC to resist the spell is increased by +2 (+1?)
The Sorcerer gains power over those he has had physical contact with. If the Sorcerer has directly touched a target of one of his spells (skin to skin), the DC of the spell is increased by +1.
Just thought these were interesting. Need to be cleaned up a bit.
Not yet, we only play this campaign about 1-2 times a month, only two game days a month for multiple campaigns, been playing this more since we have played through so many of the Legend of the Shinning Jewel mods now, that and it is filthy pirates, so we gotta play when we can. Playing again this Saturday so I will report in then.
Those are interesting ideas Beo, I will think them over. I think maybe allowing the arcana to work for compulsions as well might be enough to make it worthwhile. We will see.
Not yet, we only play this campaign about 1-2 times a month, only two game days a month for multiple campaigns, been playing this more since we have played through so many of the Legend of the Shinning Jewel mods now, that and it is filthy pirates, so we gotta play when we can. Playing again this Saturday so I will report in then.
Those are interesting ideas Beo, I will think them over. I think maybe allowing the arcana to work for compulsions as well might be enough to make it worthwhile. We will see.
So, what happened during your last game?
A few points in favor of playing a Wizard:
First off, anyone following in the path of Sorshen would follow a path of Wizardry, not Sorcerery.
Secondly, a high Charisma is not synonymous with Enchantment magic - indeed, I would think those with low Charisma's would be the ones who would be most inclined to seek out ways to manipulate and influence using magic.
If I wanted to build a character as you describe, I'd probably take a level of Fey Sorcerer, reflavored as 'Succubus blood' as a dip and then go Lust the rest of the way as a Wizard.
Having said that, you seem pretty set on being a Sorcerer and I could not be more sympathetic. I absolutely hate prepared casters and absolutely love Sorcerers, so you have a friend here. And since the many bloodline options available to you are unappealing whether they've been reflavored or not, I can have a go at putting together a bloodline for you that will be appropriately flavored and not at all unbalanced.
However, I'd like to reccomend something - clearly you're going to have to have some GM approval if you are crafting an entirely new bloodline, so you'll have some leeway... have you considered approaching it from a racial standpoint?
If you were to take the Kitsune Race and its attendant abilities (higher Charisma and Dexterity, huge bonuses when casting Enchantment spells, particularly as a Sorcerer, and a feat which allows them to assume the form of any human as early as 1st level) all you would have to do is apply the same stats across the board and simply call it a 'half-succubus' race or a human with succubus blood running strong in her veins.
I mention it because I've run both a Kitsune Fey Sorceress and a Kitsune Fey-Serpentine Sorcerer in the past and both were utterly devastating when it came to what they did. Also, existing mechanics are a lot easier for most GM's to deal with, even if they're reflavored, than something new cut from whole cloth.
For simplicity's sake, let's build your Succubus bloodline from existing bloodline powers...
Class Skill
Use the Abyssal Bloodline's class skill
Bloodline bonus Feats:
Use the bonus feats from the Infernal Bloodline
Bloodline Spells
Use the Rakshasa's Bloodline spells
Bloodline Arcana
Use the Fey Bloodline's arcana
Bloodline Powers:
Use the Rakshasa's 1st level and 15th level bloodline powers
Use the Maestro's 9th level bloodline power
Use the Abyssal's 3rd and 20th level bloodline power
Sorry it took so long, been a crazy week. Last session went well, still haven't gotten to the point where the bloodline has come into it's own. Locked one enemy down in a boarding action and made him my new bodyguard after he joined us.
Was very glad I had acid splash when we ran into undead later on, almost all of my spells are defensive or mind affecting (dirty rotting undead). Wasn't the best session we had, but our original gm will be picking it back up now that his schedule has cleared up.
I think our next session will be Jan 11th, so a ways off still. I have been working on some things to maybe modify the setup with. Most likely it will replace the 15th level ability. I will post it if I ever get it figured out.
If it were almost any other subschool of spells I would probably agree, there are so few charm spells (7 to be exact), and they are so dependent on the gm for usefulness, that I don't feel it is all that over powered. Also, it is identical to using extend with no spell level increase.
There are no bloodline arcana that increase your caster level for a school by +2, at least, outside of maybe a wildblood one or two, most are a +2 save dc, or some bonus to a skill, or increased damage done. There is one that is a +50% duration increase, which may be more appropriate. Ultimately, I have not had the arcana even come into use yet and we are almost to level 7 now.
I have had the shape shifting come into use a couple of sessions ago. We were trying diplomacy to obtain a base of operations, and I felt it better to be in disguise for it. We had to marry a crew member to the owner of the place unless we took it by force, and the owner wanted one of the pcs who is not what they seem to be.
My character came very close to having to become that character physically and take their place in the wedding and marriage. We convinced the person to wed a different crew member so it worked out for the best, much to my character's relief, she did not want to marry that person, not at all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Everyone redoing the bloodline spells...how on earth is waves of ecstasy not on the list?
I think that would be a much better spell than limited wish for the feel of the bloodline. Think I will do that, not that we will be reaching that point any time soon.
Sorry. It's been a long time since I posted on this thread. I love hearing all of the feedback and suggestions that you guys are making.