does using a supernatural ability provoke an AOO when it's also a Ranged Touch attack?

[Corrado marcucci]

Hi, we had this come up in last nights game. We looked at different rules and here is what we found.

Supernatural Abilities (Su)
These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

Now it is worded as "generally don't provoke" So we read on further.

this passage is regarding spells,

Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn (see FAQ below for more information.)

FAQ/Errata
When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events. (Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.

ok, so after reading this we were wondering if you use a SU power that is fire spit that required a ranged touch attack, would the ranged touch attact part provoke? so if you use the SU power to load up the spit, that part does not, but the action of fireing the spit does, right?

I know it's long winded but would love any help or rule that might apply.

[Nicos]

It seems clear to mw that when you make a ranged attack (touch or not) you provoke AoO.

[Corrado marcucci]

Also, the player in question is a rules lawyer, so if anyone has a spacific rule we can show him in a book, that would help.

[Xaratherus]

Agree with Nicos. When casting a spell that requires a ranged touch attack, you provoke twice - once for casting the spell, and once for making a ranged attack. When using a supernatural ability that requires a ranged touch attack, you wouldn't provoke from the ability itself - but you would from the ranged attack.

[edit]
@Corrado: Point him to the table Actions in Combat (just above the section I just linked to you). It notes that ranged attacks provoke. Couple that with the FAQ you quoted, and it's clear that a supernatural ability would not provoke from its 'casting', but if it includes a ranged [touch] attack it definitely would.

[Claxon]

Adding to this that bows also provoke when fired as well (unless you have point blank master feat).

It would seem all ranged attacks provoke for the act of "firing".

[LazarX]

Corrado marcucci wrote:

Hi, we had this come up in last nights game. We looked at different rules and here is what we found.

Supernatural Abilities (Su)
These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.

Now it is worded as "generally don't provoke" So we read on further.

this passage is regarding spells,

Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn (see FAQ below for more information.)

FAQ/Errata
When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?
Yes, you provoke two attacks of opportunity: one for casting the spell and one for making a ranged attack, since these are two separate events. (Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.

ok, so after reading this we were wondering if you use a SU power that is fire spit that required a ranged touch attack, would the ranged touch attact part provoke? so if you use the SU power to load up the spit, that part does not, but the action of fireing the spit does, right?

I know it's long winded but would love any help or rule that might apply.

The supernatural ability does not provoke but the ranged touch attack does. Casting a spell that involves a ranged touch attack DOES give two opportunities for provocation, but casting defensively can negate the first one. (note that certain feats and abilities, like Disruptive can alter things at this stage.)

[Kilusa]

Just wanted to mention
"When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?"

No you never provoke 2 attacks of op from the same creature under reactions pg.248 you get one reaction per round so if player 1 dose a range attack and moved out of a threatened square he can only take on attack of op from hostile 1. Or if player 1 takes a attack of op for a range attack from hostile 1 then player 2 moves out of threat from hostile 1 it can not make another attack of op until after it's next round of combat. This also goes for reaction spells, su, moves, or anything labbeled as reaction (such as steps up feat)

However if player 1 moves away from hostile 1 and takes and ranged attack in reach of hostile 2 then each would get it's own attack of op

[Gisher]

Kilusa wrote:

Just wanted to mention

"When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?"

No you never provoke 2 attacks of op from the same creature under reactions pg.248 you get one reaction per round so if player 1 dose a range attack and moved out of a threatened square he can only take on attack of op from hostile 1. Or if player 1 takes a attack of op for a range attack from hostile 1 then player 2 moves out of threat from hostile 1 it can not make another attack of op until after it's next round of combat. This also goes for reaction spells, su, moves, or anything labbeled as reaction (such as steps up feat)

However if player 1 moves away from hostile 1 and takes and ranged attack in reach of hostile 2 then each would get it's own attack of op

(1) You are incorrect regarding the number of provocations. Read the aforementioned FAQ.

(2) You keep using the term 'reaction.' What do you think that means in game terms?

(3) Four year old thread.

[Starglim]

Gisher wrote:

Kilusa wrote:

Just wanted to mention

"When you cast a spell that allows you to make a ranged touch attack (such as scorching ray), and an enemy is within reach, do you provoke two attacks of opportunity?"

No you never provoke 2 attacks of op from the same creature under reactions pg.248 you get one reaction per round so if player 1 dose a range attack and moved out of a threatened square he can only take on attack of op from hostile 1. Or if player 1 takes a attack of op for a range attack from hostile 1 then player 2 moves out of threat from hostile 1 it can not make another attack of op until after it's next round of combat. This also goes for reaction spells, su, moves, or anything labbeled as reaction (such as steps up feat)

However if player 1 moves away from hostile 1 and takes and ranged attack in reach of hostile 2 then each would get it's own attack of op

.. You keep using the term 'reaction.' What do you think that means in game terms?

This (by the page quoted) is a Starfinder rule.

[Gisher]

Oh, great. Now Starfinder players are telling us how to play Pathfinder. Don't they have their own forum?

[Kilusa]

Lol your right sorry I must of got linked to the wrong thread didn't notice I was in a Pathfinder thread my bad.

[Rysky]

No worries :3