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Good question! For reference, some text.
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.
FAQ:
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.
Yeah, it's 2nd level spells so the 3rd level ones aren't going to help. Pick either Immortal Spark for the second level divine spell or pick any of the Variant Aasimar Heritages to gain a 2nd level arcane spell. Just level up to level 3 in the other. It'd be awesome if higher level spells also count for lower level ones, but I don't think they will.
Entry requirements list the minimum to gain entry. As an example of a ruling as strict as what you are proposing:
A PrC with 5 ranks in a skill as a prereq would allow a character entry, but a character with 6 ranks would be denied, and of course someone will argue that if he has 6 he has 5, but by the very strict reading proposed the character with 6 can not get in because "6" is not 5, and the PrC may not say "at least" 5.
As an example
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.
It says 5 ranks, not "at least 5", just like the mystic theurge does not say "at least 2nd level spells".
Yeah that is a very strict and not RAI reading, but I think it is just as valid as the spell question.
MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.
That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.
MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.
Yes, but the Aasimar with those SLA CAN'T! That's the difference. Say I took the bard archetype that gives me dervish dance. It's perquisites are dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar. So are you telling me that by RAW you qualify for something that requires weapon finesse? Or you take tattooed sorcerer and get Varisian Tattoo, so you qualify for Spell Focus? A bard or ranger can take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat?
The SLA ONLY give access to the levels of spell they are, not lower.
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agreed, it's already super gamey and stupid, but it says they give you access to EXACTLY that spell. nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. if you have darkness, you have 2nd level spells. if you have daylight, you're f-ed, because that's not 2nd level. cant have it one way and not the other. if you're gonna game the rules, the rules get to game you back.
That very much depends on whether the ability to cast spell(s) refers to being able to cast multiples of the same spell or being able to case more than one different spell. Either interpretation is potentially valid.MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.
You can say it is potentially valid, but only one is correct.
If you want to look at it another way the number of spells that can be cast per day is 3, since the class does ask how many spell can be cast, not how many spells are known, so the sorcerer does have the ability to cast 2nd level spells, but semantics aside the idea is that the class has access to 2nd level spells.
With that aside it has always meant access to spells of a certain level. Most people know that.
MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.Yes, but the Aasimar with those SLA CAN'T! That's the difference. Say I took the bard archetype that gives me dervish dance. It's perquisites are dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar. So are you telling me that by RAW you qualify for something that requires weapon finesse? Or you take tattooed sorcerer and get Varisian Tattoo, so you qualify for Spell Focus? A bard or ranger can take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat?
The SLA ONLY give access to the levels of spell they are, not lower.
The intent per the FAQ is to allow the SLA's to work though. Your examples are not even close to what I am saying.
I'm glad you're so confident there Graystone, but you'll have to excuse me if I wait for an official answer.
I'm going off the FAQ's which stated that A: SLA count as casting arcane/divine spells and B: that they count as the spells they are for abilities and prereq's. Adding those together, I can only come to the conclusion that it works just like the FAQ's said. It count's as casting that spell and that spell has a level. If the spell isn't of the level that the PrC needs they it doesn't work.
That said, they may come up with a new FAQ that allows higher level SLA to qualify for lower ones, but I can only work with what I have in front of me.
agreed, it's already super gamey and stupid, but it says they give you access to EXACTLY that spell. nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. if you have darkness, you have 2nd level spells. if you have daylight, you're f-ed, because that's not 2nd level. cant have it one way and not the other. if you're gonna game the rules, the rules get to game you back.
I am confused.
I'm glad you're so confident there Graystone, but you'll have to excuse me if I wait for an official answer.Same here. I am pretty sure that up until recently very few people believed that SLA's qualified you for PrC's. Now they do and the world hasn't ended. I am not really sure what is so stupid or gamey about making Mystic Theurge into a non horrible trap option.
I agree. I don't think its gamey at least not yet. I will have to see try it on NPC monsters one day, but I am hoping someone handles that for me.. :)
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agreed, it's already super gamey and stupid, but it says they give you access to EXACTLY that spell. nothing else, nothing more, nothing less. if you have darkness, you have 2nd level spells. if you have daylight, you're f-ed, because that's not 2nd level. cant have it one way and not the other. if you're gonna game the rules, the rules get to game you back.I am confused.
I get that a lot.
With the grumpiness aside (which I admit was unneeded) I am essentially saying what graystone is saying. but i see that now that i was wrong, so i withdraw my comment.
The intent per the FAQ is to allow the SLA's to work though. Your examples are not even close to what I am saying.MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.Yes, but the Aasimar with those SLA CAN'T! That's the difference. Say I took the bard archetype that gives me dervish dance. It's perquisites are dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar. So are you telling me that by RAW you qualify for something that requires weapon finesse? Or you take tattooed sorcerer and get Varisian Tattoo, so you qualify for Spell Focus? A bard or ranger can take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat?
The SLA ONLY give access to the levels of spell they are, not lower.
Ah.... It says what SLA's work like the spells they are. So 3rd level SLA's count as 3rd level spells. Nothing in the FAQ's that I've seen has said that they count as spells other than the ones that are listed in the SLA. A summon monsters 3 doesn't count as a summon monsters 2 prereq so why should a 3rd level SLA count as a 2nd level one? they are two different spells/SLA's.
I think that an official answer is necessary because it's an entirely new situation.
As it stands, the issue never arose before, because (as far as I know) there's never previously been a way to get access to a 3rd-level spell (or equivalent) without having access to 1st- and 2nd-level spells.
Personal opinion is that an SLA mimicking a 3rd-level spell wouldn't meet a qualification of "Ability to cast 2nd-level spells), but that's just gut reaction.
Ah.... It says what SLA's work like the spells they are. So 3rd level SLA's count as 3rd level spells. Nothing in the FAQ's that I've seen has said that they count as spells other than the ones that are listed in the SLA. A summon monsters 3 doesn't count as a summon monsters 2 prereq so why should a 3rd level SLA count as a 2nd level one? they are two different spells/SLA's.The intent per the FAQ is to allow the SLA's to work though. Your examples are not even close to what I am saying.MT also says the ability to cast spells but people seem happy to allow Level 4 sorcerers to qualify and they only know 1 level 2 spell.That sorcerer can cast 2nd level spells, but they only have access to one.Yes, but the Aasimar with those SLA CAN'T! That's the difference. Say I took the bard archetype that gives me dervish dance. It's perquisites are dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar. So are you telling me that by RAW you qualify for something that requires weapon finesse? Or you take tattooed sorcerer and get Varisian Tattoo, so you qualify for Spell Focus? A bard or ranger can take the Extra Cantrips or Orisons feat?
The SLA ONLY give access to the levels of spell they are, not lower.
I see what you are saying now, but the spells are there to as a limitation.
How much sense does it make for a less powerful creature, as far as magic goes, to be able to do enter into the PrC when a stronger one can not.Personally I dont care for the ruling, but I would be surprised to seem them(devs) limit you to specifically 2nd level spells.
