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I often see people inquiring about what to do with their broken miniatures. To assist with this, and the usual questions that come up, I have created a brief guide on how to present a product replacement claim to WizKids.
I hope some people may find this to be helpfull:
WizKids' Pathfinder Battles' Product Replacement Guide
This seems like something that could be added to the FAQ for the Miniatures page.
In any case well done Kor.
I emailed Wizkids to which they said to wait until about a month after the release of Legends of Golarian before trying to replace them. Sadly I must wait until they add the green dragon to the system before I can send mine in.
Still awaiting the replacement option to be available for Legends of Golarion. :/
As others have said, well done Kor ... thanks for this. :)
~Dean
Thanks Minstrel and Bloodbat.
I know and feel your frustration Bloodbat. And on begins my rant...
I only claimed once, and the waiting time was far too long. First I had to wait until the set was available for selection. Then once it was finally available, I immediately sent in my claim for 4 miniatures. A few months later, 2 of my 4 came. About a month after that, the final 2 came.
The past few sets I have just done my best to glue the pieces back together. Shattered Star was aptly named, but Legends of Golarion was not that much better for me. I repaired several minis but I still have 5 that are beyond proper repair. I really dread having to go through that lengthy claim process again.
The only reasonable solutions I can think of are:
1. Use more pliable plastic. I have requested this of Paizo on several occasions. From my understanding the more pliable the plastic is, the less detail they can do -- and then bent weapons and appendages become more common. Despite this, I would rather have that, than the fragile plastic WizKids uses now. My biggest concern, is should I ever drop a figure, I suspect the larger the figure the greater the spread of plastics bits on my basement concrete floor.
2. Better packaging. With all the years WizKids has been in business, are you seriously telling me that they have not figured out a better way to package minis to prevent breakage? If they insist on using their cheap fragile plastic, then it would be nice if they didn't cheap out on the packaging and find a better way to safeguard the miniatures.
I collected all the D&D Pre-painted miniatures, and in all those shipments over all the years... I had 1 figure that was broken. That was acceptable.
The frequency of broken figures from WizKids is absolutely unacceptable. If the claims process was streamlined and efficient I could tolerate it... but it is not. From the time I send a miniature in, I expect to have a replacement within 30 days... not 6 months.
*sighs*
And, to have to pay yourself to ship them back is the absolute antithesis of any other company's defective merchandise policy. I worked to find an alternative workaround as I was absolutely floored to learn that WizKids required the minis to be sent back (at the buyer's own cost) and that there was then no guarantee of even getting the same minis back.
I pray that Paizo works to present a better, more customer friendly replacement methodology with WizKids in order make this easier for everyone.
Legends of Golarion was the only set (and I've collected every single one of them except the Undead Expansion) that didn't have broken/incomplete minis in it.
I'm going to keep getting them, as I think they're great minis, but the regularity of breakage, and the method of replacement available to the general public are a HUGE concern.
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In my experience, this is becoming a more frequent problem. First set had no broken miniatures. Then one or two in the next couple of sets which has ramped up considerably. They have always been of the common variety.
Today, I averaged 2 broken figs per brick, one of which was The Storm King. So I'm left with either trying to fix it with superglue or spending a good chunk of change to replace it. I'm not going to pay money to ship them to WizKids and potentially not get the correct miniatures back. It's a completely ridiculous policy.
I'm not going to pay money to ship them to WizKids and potentially not get the correct miniatures back. It's a completely ridiculous policy.
I too am getting tired of receiving broken figures and I have been averaging about the same amount of broken figures per set. Tonight I will be picking up my WotR set from the post office, and I am already nervous about what I will find inside. If I get more broken minis, I will be starting an online petition to send to WizKids (with a cc: to Paizo).
As for getting the correct miniatures back, I'd say you can be reasonably confident you will get the correct miniatures back. I have not yet heard about a case where someone did not -- and I'm going to guess that this situation would only occur probably about a year after release. If you submit soon-after the set is available for replacement, I'm fairly certain you will receive the proper replacement miniature.
You will likely have to wait a few months though, as this process is not quick -- but I don't mind waiting if it means I'm getting the same mini back. It is certainly not the best customer service model!
I have received only a handful broken minis, but I feel I’ve been more fortunate than most. The times I’ve had a broken mini I either have glued it back together, of if that isn’t an option, then I just chalk it up as a loss. Fortunately that has only happened once and it was with a common.
But I do agree with complaints and concerns that have been voiced here. When I read the requirements to replace a mini I felt it was pretty ridiculous and was probably the main reason I didn’t bother with my broken ones.
You should NEVER have to pay to replace an item you’ve already purchased, even if it’s only S&H. Everfool has already expressed it well, but the whole idea behind replacement of a defective item is it’s giving the consumer the correct item he already should have received in the first place, at no extra cost to him, as he already paid for it.
Also, as we are on WizKids customer service, but why don’t they have a customer service line? Yes, yes, I understand the logistics of it causing extra money to staff someone (or some people) at the phones and it is more difficult for smaller companies. However, I’ve seen smaller companies than WizKids still have a number that can be called, even if that company is only a few people. It’s usually a (second) cell or home phone number, and you may need to leave a message for them to call you back, but there is at least a number you can call.
Even though I have had few reasons to deal with WizKids yet on the minis (although it’s been more due to I avoided doing so), I do hope there can be some changes made for their customer service to be improved.
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I think Paizo is between a rock and a hard place on this one. I have had a few issues with shipments from Paizo with Pathfinder products, and they have been so great to deal with. I also appreciate that they take quite a bit of time to engage in conversations on these forums. I believe these factors will demonstrate that they greatly value customer service. I have a lot of respect for Paizo because of this. I'm sure Erik and crew are just as frustrated at WizKids' return policies as we are, however in the Pathfinder Battles line, they are essentially business partners and they are in a tough position to openly criticize their policies.
That said though, Paizo is in the best position to try to encourage them to develop a more customer friendly product replacement model. I really wish they could work something out where Paizo could take that aspect over.
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Every dealing I've had with paizo in regard to a defective product has been pleasant, fast and very satisfactory. I can't fault their customer service and I don't think wizkids replacement policy should reflect on paizo customer service record in the least. Paizo are exemplary.
I find the wizkids replacement policy insulting, here in Aus a policy like that would be shot down. No one should have to ever pay additional costs to replace a defective product.
Now, that said. I have a feeling that free replacement by wizkids could cause some serious costs and an ongoing issue may well contribute to a reduction in releases for the line. I'm happy to accept a small percentage of breakages (3-4 in a case) if it keeps the detail and future of the line assured. At this level I wouldn't even feel a need to deal with wizkids so their policy is moot. The big off putting factor is when the gargantuans and huges arrive damaged, these are a lot more expensive to mail back and replace. Hopefully the packaging for the reign huges will prevent this.
Need to dot this.
Might need to use this shortly. 8 broken in the last set I just got. Really disappointing, there must be a better way to return things without paying, again, for a faulty product.
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When you get to 8 things have gone wrong. If you're not in the US the cost to return and get replacements makes it just not worth it unless the figs are all rare minis. The conversations between Erik and Wizkids apparently resolved the paint issues from LoG, and that initial feedback looks like it did actually alter the composition of the plastic between H&M and Runelords. I'm fairly certain their will be a conversation going on in the background about the breakages.
Having looked at some of my figures in the last few sets, I have noted that some of the extremities are more pliable. (i.e. The Wrath of the Righteous' Baphomet Cultist -- the weapon is not rigid.) This is a good sign that they are trying to change some of the plastic composition of parts of the mini to a more pliable vinal-type plastic.
All of my Wrath of the Righteous miniatures made it to Canada with no major damage. I had 3 different large sized miniatures which had separated from their bases (all these were on flight stands which essentially popped off at the base due to insufficient glue).
I do not like the idea of opening my minis and finding damaged ones, but it seems that WizKids/Paizo has tried to strike a balance between having a less durable plastic that better holds detail and prevents "mini sag", while keeping packaging costs low by having minimal protective packing around each individual mini. Because they have made these choices, broken minis will always be a problem. And sadly it is a commonly experienced problem.
Now I do understand that WizKids has essentially been breaking new ground in making these miniatures. These minis have details and complexities far beyond what their typical HeroClix miniature lines have contained. But given that they are unable to lock down the production process to give us a miniature that is not prone to breaking in transport, then they should be putting more effort into developing a hassle-free replacement system.
Although I dislike sending my miniatures back to WizKids for replacement, I would have less of a concern doing so if the process was hassle-free. What do I consider to be a "hassle"?
1. Not being reimbursed my shipping cost to return the minis.
2. Waiting months to get my miniatures replaced.
3. Not knowing for 100% certainty if my miniatures will be replaced with the same ones.
Now, how do you fix the above? Here's my suggestions:
1. Since WizKids and Paizo are partners in the enterprise, I would like to get my shipping cost back in the form of a rebate. The best way and least expensive method I can think of is to convert my shipping cost to a coupon code I can claim at Paizo. (WizKids would have to set standards for maximum shipping charges they would consider which would be variable on the number of minis sent in, the size of the minis, and the country/area the customer is in). To me this is a win-win solution:
- We get our money back, albiet in a future purchase.
- WizKids only has to deal with Paizo for the compensation transaction.
- Paizo will get increase sales on their site from customers who did not originally purchase their minis from them. (I realize for people that would never normally buy anything from Paizo directly, this may not be as great of a solution, but there really are so many great things to buy from Paizo that I don't think its all that bad).
2. Due to the composition of the plastic and the minimal package protection, breaks have to be anticipated so then you better be prepared to staff your company with the needed resources to replace the products. Either spend the money on more staff or better construction/packaging. The turn around time for me to receive a replacement mini should be no more than 30 days, after receiving it from me.
3. I expect them to have a huge stock on hand of all the minis for product replacement purposes. After perhaps 1 year, they could then sell the majority of their back stock of single minis to Paizo. Also they should develop a "live" product replacement inventory. The list of minis replaceable should show all minis that are in their inventory. As soon as I finalize my order, then my minis selected should be put on hold for 30 to 45 days. This way, I know I will be guaranteed to get the same mini, so long as I mail in the claim form immediately after I finalize it.
I would like to hear some feedback on this, as I would like to forward a letter with my recommendations to WizKids.
Thanks for reading this long dissertation :)
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There are companies out there that will actually send you the packaging when making a return/repair to a product. I think it would be great if WizKids could do this as well.
Step 1: Fill out the "Create a Package" form and you have to attach an image of the broken miniatures.
Step 2: WizKids reviews the information, prints out the mailing forms for you and mails you a flat packed box or bubble mailer.
Step 3: Mail the defective miniatures in.
A guarantee of receiving the correct replacement within X months of original set release date would be nice as well.
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I just wanted to add some perspective. We're talking about a product in the general vicinity of $3.25 (on average). When you buy a case, that's your average price.
Normal companies aren't going to go to extraordinary efforts to warrant products that cheap. They're considered - usually by the customer as well - to be disposable.
If you bought a pack of 3 Bic pens for $10 and one of them didn't work, odds are pretty good you wouldn't even make a trip back to a retail store to exchange it, let alone expect Bic to reimburse you the $10 or so in shipping it takes to send it back to the factory.
Now, I get it - I really do - that there's a whole different value associated with these at the singles level. Obviously. Some of these are massively more expensive than $3.25 to buy individually. But that's sort of artificial.
If you buy a case, the average item value precludes extraordinary warranty efforts. If you buy singles, well, in my eye that should be up to the seller to deal with. In Paizo's case, they clearly open up each box to send us singles. I've never had any damage with a single that was handled personally by a Paizo staffer. If I was buying retail, I'd probably expect to go back to the store I bought a single box at, and negotiate getting a different box. No guarantee of getting the same mini, certainly. Again, the "value" is more at a collector level than a real level.
Long story short is that I understand the frustration but don't expect anyone to change their practices significantly because in reality these are very cheap objects.
Anguish you make some good points, but I think the 4 main differences here versus a normal consumer item (which you did touch on) is that:
1. These are collector items. This is not a casual purchase item, and you have to go to a specialty store to get them. I think there is a higher consumer standard set that when you are a buying a new collector's item (which has limited production) you do expect it to be intact.
2. These are randomly distibuted. Exchanges at the retail level for this collector item cannot easily be effected for a specific mini.
3. These have artifical values attributed to them by rarity and market demand. The cost to buy a rare miniature can exceed $20.00.
4. These items are available for purchase online, so a consumer never has to go into a store. There is a high expectation that an item will be suitably packaged to prevent from damage during shipping.
Now in general, I think it is a valid point to say "don't expect anyone to change their practices significantly because in reality these are very cheap objects".
However in my case, I drop hundreds of dollars on a case to get a complete set. As a collector, I do this so that I can get all the minis and don't have to go through the secondary market to get my minis. I do have to budget for buying these minis, because as a whole they are very expensive. On average I get 5 broken minis a case. So this would mean to replace them I would need to spend about $5.00 per mini to replace them. (This price is based on average market price for all levels of rarities). So now I would need to pay $25.00 plus $10.00 shipping. Now I am at $35.00.
I would be curious to learn if the bulk of the sales of these minis come from consumers buying cases or consumers buying individual boxes. If the bulk of the sales is just the individual boxes, then as Anguish has pointed out, the company likely is not going to make a significant change to alter their existing return procedures. However, if the primary market for these are case-buyers like me, then given the current average amount of damaged miniatures found in a case, I would expect there to be a better product replacement procedure.
Glad you didn't take my post as being critical or contrarian, Kor. Just a surprise neither of us apologized to the other, both being Canadian. <Grin>
I suspect the majority of sales are still retail boxes, else Wizkids'd be likely to offer a package with significantly less printed cardboard. You could easily package these for less potential damage, in a smaller space, at less cost if you were willing to sacrifice the retail packaging. That they don't suggests to me we're the minority in our purchases.
Incidentally, I do find it interesting that folks see what they see damage-wise. I've only had two full cases, but between the two the only thing I've seen is a mini off its base. I dunno if delivery folks are playing soccer with boxes of these things or what, but I suspect abuse plays into this somewhere as a partial cause.
I just put up a rant-post of my own on this.
What I failed to mention there, is the fact that I've seen the new D&D miniatures... which, to my understanding, are also done by WizKids.. and those are done beautifully, and I've heard of little to no breakage on those. What gives?
Current Pathfinder sets, I have had literally zero breakage and I think that is the experience of others as well.
If you look close, you'll see Vic's reply was almost a year ago. So to answer your question, I would say that the new D&D miniatures benefit from the experience WizKids has gained in solving the problems for the Pathfinder line, and now both lines benefit from that experience.
They have improved the composition of the plastic. I also had no breakage from the last set.
The bubble wrap has been a tremendous boon, as has facing the larges away from the mediums. I had ZERO breakages this case, and I'm sure that's why. Well done!