Spear Thrower


Advice

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Grand Lodge

That makes sense.

What about Savage Barbarian or Invulnerable Rager?


I like Invulnerable Rager, although I think the plain barbarian would work well here too. I think you're going to want cheap AC, so giving up armor isn't the best idea, IMO. The reason I think you want that is that you'll probably need to enhance at least two weapons, even though you technically may only need 1 with the blinkback belt.

Now, as crazy as it sounds, armored hulk may work too. From level 1-5, you'll have 25 speed in medium armor, which is kinda sucky, but at least you can outrun the tin can over there in plate.

But at level 5, you'll be running at 35 feet while in medium armor.

The reason for that is that if your GM allows the two thrown charge attacks, Rhino Hide might be pretty decent.

3 levels of fighter, or some way to get the Armor Training they have, would accomplish the same thing, but would let you run at 40 feet in medium armor.


Are you set on being a barbarian? What about a ranger with the archery combat style. Precise Shot/Improved Precise shot by level 6 without needing a high dex is pretty solid. Pick up Quick Draw as one of your normal feats.

Grand Lodge

I am willing to multiclass, but would like to stick to Barbarian.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I adjusted the thread title a little.

Grand Lodge

Ross Byers wrote:
I adjusted the thread title a little.

Why?

Now it seems I am talking about the Spear-Thrower item from the Adventurer's Armory.

Grand Lodge

Perhaps Spear Flinger?

Actually, Spear Thrower, Spear Chucker, and Spear Flinger could all be construed as politically incorrect when used in the appropriate context.

There is no winning.

Maybe Spear Master?

Grand Lodge

Actually, nevermind my comments on the title. Not worth it.

Moving on, any advice on the build out there?

Grand Lodge

If I go Half-Orc, how should I place my ability scores?


How fast do you plan on getting belt of mighty hurling, lesser? How lenient is your GM on combining items?

Grand Lodge

Well, this DM would likely put a x1.5 on the added ability.

With this, I am thinking going Lesser belt of mighty hurling first.

I can do this around 6th. I could likely get the combo item around 9th.

I think these are more important then a +2 weapon.

Should I go for a Called weapon first?

Is the Blinkback Belt more important to get first?


Originally I was going to say that hurling was better, but if you go for twf or hit level6, blinkback will be better, simply because getting called will cost 8k, but a +1 and blinkback will cost less. I don't remember the WB at six, but at 5 its 10.5k, so 2k will save a bit. Belt of hurling is 12k, I think, so is going to be out of reach for awhile... Could just ask for a feat that lets you use strength to hit with thrown weapons. Maybe with a drawback that every other range increment starting with the first is -3, to sweeten the deal.

Grand Lodge

Well, two weapon fighting doesn't play well with Two-Handed Thrower.

I like the feat, as it's effects come into play on single and full attacks.

It also doesn't play well with the Hurling Charge Rage Power.

Not really going to get the 3.5 Brutal Throw feat okay'd.

He has allowed the Magic Item Compendium in the past, with a few exceptions.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Well, two weapon fighting doesn't play well with Two-Handed Thrower.

I like the feat, as it's effects come into play on single and full attacks.

It also doesn't play well with the Hurling Charge Rage Power.

Not really going to get the 3.5 Brutal Throw feat okay'd.

He has allowed the Magic Item Compendium in the past, with a few exceptions.

g~+ d~&n i loved that feat, i had it on my harpooner. i agree that TWF is a bad choice, rapid shot would do the same, but better.

distance thrower and far shot are to good to pass up, i would highly suggest those 2 feats. if you need the room dip 2 levels of fighter.

they add +2 range increments with no penelty. i dont know how your gm handles combats, but it would suck if you were fighting a flying creature that was 80feet up raining arrows down on you, and you cant hit them because you have a massive -8 on your short spear throws.

Grand Lodge

I suppose I am alright with a dip, but I am not sure what, and if it would be worth it.


!!!!!!!

Take levels of wizard. Focus on evocation. Ignore the archery focus of Arcane Archer and us ethrown weapons instead. Imbue your thrown spears with fireball and be a missile launcher.

Grand Lodge

That only works with Bows.

Maybe Horizon Walker, but only for 3 levels.


That's why you ignore it.

Missile. Launcher.


that would be an awesome character, or how about a myrmadarch magus !!!

Grand Lodge

If I dipped into a spellcaster, then I would go Oracle, with the Wood Mystery, and then go Rage Prophet.

Grand Lodge

Just got word that it will be 20 point buy.

How should I arrange my stats?


16 (add racial), 16, 14, 9, 10, 7, are generic barbarian stats.

if you are only playing with dex to hit, for the first 5 levels you can drop that to a 14 giving you 5 extra points to balance out your cha and int. or stack your wisdom to a 14. if you dont like the generic tehn i would choose one of these 2 stats sets

16 (add racial), 14, 14, 9, 14, 7 - better will saves are important.

or

16 (add racial) 14, 14, 10, 10, 10- no negative atributes

Grand Lodge

I am really liking the Oni-Spawn Tiefling w/Prehensile Tail, Scaled Skin & Fiendish Sprinter alternate racial traits.

The +2 Str, +2 Wis, and -2 Cha work. The Prehensile Tail will help prior to Quick Draw, Scaled Skin with AC, and Fiendish Sprinter will increase speed while charging.

The Alter Self ability also works as a Impromptu self buff.

How about these stats?
Str17(19)
Dex16
Con14
Int7
Wis10(12)
Cha7(5)


as an avid orc enthusiast, i say not playing a half orc is a good choice, they were a bad race in 3.5 and paizo made them even worse.

those stats are really good for this kind of character, just be wery of intelligence damage. im willing to tank CHA to 7 because i cant think of any source of cha damage, other then poisons, but INT has quite a few.


Cheapy wrote:

That's why you ignore it.

Missile. Launcher.

Goblin alchemist, rocket bombs, inferno bomb.

That is the end all missile launcher.

Anyway... back on topic, have you considered the Raging Hurler feat? It has overlap with the two-handed thrower feat, but is another way to do it. Mostly it is a tradeoff, +1/2 damage for double range increment and the ability to atto-pickup the weapon to throw again and the disadvantage of rage only. I never see anyone actually suggest it, but it is worth considering.
The main benefit of raging hurler is, if you go hurling barbarian and have a 10ft range weapon, it turns into a 40 ft range increment, as good as a musket.

Another item you might want to save for, is to add throwing property to a weapon, that way you can throw a greataxe instead of spears, if you want to maintain the image of a spear-thrower, then ignore this ^-^ This is also more costly, so you might ignore it because of that as well.
If you plan on being higher level, you could go dwarf and aim for this weapon ^-^

As for your question about spear or shortspear, I would lean towards spear, but I can see the merits of shortspear and blinkback belt. Hmmm. you could use a light hammer with the bounding hammer feat, or a throwing axe with the sliding axe throw feat, but I doubt the hammer one is worth it, the axe on the other hand would allow you to make free trip attempts every time you throw an axe.

Another idea is wands. Using wands of abundant ammunition on quivers of spears would be a way to do this at earlier levels and would work nicely with haste or such. wands of magic weapon or greater magic weapon would mean you dont have to pay the masterwork cost, but might cost close to the same after a longish campain, I dunno. wands of shadow weapon might be useful? your thoughts? anyways look here to see what sneaky things you can do.

thejef wrote:
Cheapy wrote:


You're getting almost as good as Ravingdork at finding strange intersections of the rules.

I can see both sides of the argument for whether that works, although currently I'm leaning towards it does work. You'd take a -4 penalty to AC, of course.

Honestly, any argument for or against is going to get far more esoteric than the authors of the feats and rage power probably meant, so ask your GM.

Is that -4 AC to take the two actions or do you think the +2 charge bonuses stack as well? It's hard for me to see one stacking, but not the other.

I'd give it to you. 2 thrown attacks at +2 attack, -2 AC middle and end of a charge. It's no better than Hurling Charge by itself and you have to spend a feat to do it.

It's pretty situational, given the movement required.

I dont think the +2/-2 would stack on ether side, as they both say they are talking about the same thing.

Charging Hurler
"gaining the +2 bonus on the attack roll and taking a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn."
Hurling Charge
"gaining the normal +2 attack roll bonus on the thrown weapon attack as well as on the melee attack at the end of the charge."
As for wether "You can use the charge rules to make a thrown weapon attack." is saying "you make a charge but modified" or "you make something similar to, but not the same as", I do not know.

Btw, I really like the idea! I have been toying with an unarmed barbarian that used an AOMF throwing to 'throw' his fists kinda like one of those anime martial artists from the old arcade games and this is good inspiration to pursue it.

Grand Lodge

Not really interested in throwing anything else than spears, or spear-like objects.

I will also have the Lesser Hurling Rage Power to fling improvised objects, and don't really need the Throw Anything feat.

I am thinking of the Hurler/Invulnerable Rager combo.

The Efficient Quiver is an item I am considering.


you mean The Efficient Quiver is an item I am going to buy. its better then a haverdsack for carrying small objects.

with the stats you proposed im thinking you will be getting one attack at level 1 with two handed thrower + rage...

1d6+9. thats not bad at all. at 6th with pointblank and rapid shot and quickdraw added on you would toss 3 spears at possibly 1d6 + 12 + MISC modifiers with a +16 possibly to hit.

this character will do well. you just need to talk to your gm and ask him if your 2 feats stack.

Grand Lodge

Seems to stack. Still double checking to be sure though.


pilums is a good way to go to have on hand as mention before. really quick way to get rid of shield bonus. nothing better then taking out someones +5 heavy shield bonus in one shot. They take the loss to ac for the fight or lose a standard action to remove pilum. only to have to do the same thing the next round. you will become real annoying really fast I am sure. If you go human I would pick these feats
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/martial-versatility-combat-human
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/martial-mastery-combat-human

Weapon focus would apply to all spears you pick up so would improved crit. since you are not a fighter, no weapons sp. So these feat work a little better for human fighters.

Grand Lodge

The Martial Versatility feats are fighter only. If I go with that, I would choose Weapon Specialization. Also, I would go Scion of Humanity Angel-Blooded Aasimar.

I suppose a few fighter levels can work.

If I go that route, how should I go about it?

Grand Lodge

If I go Aasimar, I would go Angel-Blooded, Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait.
For stats with this, I would go:

Str17(19)
Dex14
Con14
Int7
Wis12
Cha9(11)

What do you think?


Stat wise I think you are fine. Few less - to skill and extra bonus to will save. You still have good dex. Depends on how many levels of barb or levels of fighter your plan on taking. More fighter levels = less skill points total. but a lot more feat that can sync the feats I suggested. if plan on mostly barb go with your Tiefling skip my suggestion. I did not notice it was fighter only or the 2nd one was only level 16. I would not bother with it unless I was going to go 16 levels of fighter and dip 4 else where.

Grand Lodge

I do like the Tiefling option.

How should I order my feats?

I am thinking Two-Handed Thrower or Point Blank Shot first.


I would go Point Blank first then precise shot, then your two-handed thrower. That -4 to attack in to melee can really hurt at the 1st few levels. The ranger in my group had issues in our group because of it He took weapon focus first. Get the ability to hit up first then damage. Better to do some damage then no damage.

Grand Lodge

I am not sure if I will be taking Weapon Focus at all.

If I do, then it will be much later.

Strong Arm, Supple Wrist seems to be the perfect trait for this build, but not sure about the second.


Oh I was saying don't make my rangers mistake and take something like weapon focus, in place of Precise shot. Precise shot should be your frist goal with any range combat person. Because it is getting rid of a 20% peanlty to hit. what other feats are you looking at. May help me with spear build fighter I am trying to do? I will look at traits later.


I'm not sure if you're already decided on which god to follow but the Veteran of Battle (Gorum) trait could be nice.

As you tend to throw away your weapons everything that lets you draw one for free is good.
At least until you get quickdraw. After that it's weaker but still gives you the init bonus.

Or you could take a look at the storm hunter (hongal) trait.

Grand Lodge

Have not chosen my god. Leaning towards Venkelvore though.

Also, not trying to nab Reactionary, again.

Grand Lodge

I am considering putting levels 3 to 5 into either Two-Handed Fighter or Weapon Master fighter.

What do you think?


if you are looking for damage two-handed fighter the way to go. I am not sure what you get at levels 3-5, and if you are doing two handed throwing that is the way to go. I found weapon master kind of bland.

Grand Lodge

Does the Overhand Chop work with Two-Handed thrown weapons?

That would be a big deciding factor.


I would think so I don't see why it would not. ask your gm.

Grand Lodge

It seems to have no restriction to melee.

After two levels of Barbarian, going into Two-handed fighter for three levels will give me much needed feats, and the Overhand Chop for extra damage.

Grand Lodge

Update:
Finally starting the Rise of the Runelords.
Now it is 15 point buy, Core Races only, and all non-3rd party Pathfinder books allowed.

So, thinking Half-Orc(with Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial trait), Invulnerable Rager Barbarian.

Strength 16(18)
Dexterity 14
Constitution 14
Intelligence 7
Wisdom 13
Charisma 7

First feat: Point Blank Shot

Still up in the air with traits, but Strong Arm, Supple Wrist is a contender.

So, what do you all think? Any changes needed?

Grand Lodge

Also, the DM has houseruled that Half-Orcs count as Human and Orc for the purposes of meeting prerequisites for Traits, Feats, and Archetypes.

Not sure if that changes anything.


I had a quick thought. You might want to consider going with a Mobile Fighter build. This would give you bonuses when you attack and move, and at level 11 would let you take a move action and a full attack action. This would also let you take advantage of Martial Versatility and Martial Mastery, letting you switch up the kind of throwing weapons you use.

Grand Lodge

Well, I don't mind a dip, but I really would like to stick to Barbarian for the most part.

What do you think of the stat array?


Your stat array is good if you go Urban Barb, letting you have Str 18 / Dex 18 while enraged. Otherwise, I would personally even out your Str & Dex and let your Rage boost your Str up. That way your ranged attack rolls will be a bit higher, which I always recommend when going with a thrown weapon build.


I think the Build as you have given it is GOOD!

I like the fact that you may dip into Fighter, but will stay mostly Barbarian.
The soul of a Character should NOT be sold for a few special abilities. Still, two levels in Fighter will be a big help.

When you get high enough level, I recommend the following Feat: Vital Strike!

Usable in both Ranged and Melee combat, and it does not matter what weapon you use! If you wanted to cause massive damage to a target in the initial round, then Vital Strike feat chain is for you!

Grand Lodge

Well, I made this about 2 years ago.

I have been wanting to rebuild it for PFS.

I know there is a lot more spear chucking goodness.

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