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I often hear on these boards that "you should be prepared to fight NPCs with Darkness and Deeper Darkness".
The thing is... I don't know how.
I mean, I guess you could cast Daylight, but if the NPCs just cast Deeper Darkness again, doesn't that counter Daylight?
Also, you can't rely on a scroll of Daylight for obvious reasons.
So how exactly does one fight the darkness?
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currently, one of the best/easiest ways is to get a 4th level heightened continual light spell cast on something you own. Maybe a dull gray ioun stone? That way you have something permanent. I have also used dispel magic to moderate success, depends on if deeper darkness is being cast by enemies with it as an SLA (as in they can just recast it) or prepared.
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Darkvision doesn't help with deeper darkness.
Fly into the nebula: Obscuring Mist/Smoke Stick
Sun Cleric 8
Blind Fight Feat
Heightened Continual Flame (Must be cast by a PC)
Daylight + Torch.
Daylight, even on a scroll is more helpful that you may think.
Assuming you can find your way out of the darkness cast daylight on your gear: in the areas where deeper darkness and daylight overlap the ambient light will prevail. In this case it is helpful to have a torch or some-other non magical source of light.
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Daylight can still help. And a scroll can help too, just move away from the Darkness and use it. Even if someone casts Deeper Darkness 10 times in the same area, they still cancel each other out. As long as the opponent doesn't Dispel Magic your Daylight, you're ok. You'll still need non-magical light to see however.
Another problem is that the rules regarding darkness aren't 100% clear. I know I had it GMed incorrectly in one scenario by an experienced GM.
Contributor
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That is so true! A Level 4 Continual Flame would defeat the Deeper Darkness!
Who wants to be my new best friend and play a VTT scenario so they can cast Heightened Continual Flame for me? :)
It's late, so I may be foggy on this, but couldn't this also be purchased as "spellcasting services" by a NPC?
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It's late, so I may be foggy on this, but couldn't this also be purchased as "spellcasting services" by a NPC?That is so true! A Level 4 Continual Flame would defeat the Deeper Darkness!
Who wants to be my new best friend and play a VTT scenario so they can cast Heightened Continual Flame for me? :)
You can't buy metamagicked potions oils scrolls or spells.
Apparently all the PFS casters have skill focuses in their dayjobs...
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Contributor
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It's late, so I may be foggy on this, but couldn't this also be purchased as "spellcasting services" by a NPC?That is so true! A Level 4 Continual Flame would defeat the Deeper Darkness!
Who wants to be my new best friend and play a VTT scenario so they can cast Heightened Continual Flame for me? :)
You can't buy metamagicked potions oils scrolls or spells.
Well, wasn't suggesting that - rather I meant hiring a 7th level caster to cast continual flame would make it a "level 4" continual flame, wouldn't it? Nothing metamagic about it, just paying for a caster of higher level (if available by city size etc etc).
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You best friend is a Hand of Glory for this situation. Gives you an extra ring slot and lets you cast Daylight and see invisibility once per day. This item lets you counter darkness, deeper darkness, and invisibility.
Your cheaper bet is to go potions of the same spells.
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I mean, I guess you could cast Daylight, but if the NPCs just cast Deeper Darkness again, doesn't that counter Daylight?
To be able to nullify your daylight they would have to cast it and touch the source with their charge, as deeper darkness and daylight are touch spells.
It's also *generally* accepted that two deeper darknesses + one daylight = same as one of each. Their effects don't stack, and basically their areas create a "Venn diagram" of light levels.
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I mean, I guess you could cast Daylight, but if the NPCs just cast Deeper Darkness again, doesn't that counter Daylight?To be able to nullify your daylight they would have to cast it and touch the source with their charge, as deeper darkness and daylight are touch spells.
It's also *generally* accepted that two deeper darknesses + one daylight = same as one of each. Their effects don't stack, and basically their areas create a "Venn diagram" of light levels.
Exactly this. 2 Deeper Darkness spells doesn't overpower one Daylight spell; all 3 spells are ineffective in their overlapping areas of effect.
The only way to end an ongoing Daylight with a Deeper Darkness is to have the Deeper Darkness caster touch the item that the Daylight is emanating from. That ends the Deeper Darkness that they just cast before it starts, and dispels the Daylight. If there's still another Deeper Darkness spell in the room, it is now unhindered in its effects.
Dotted for interest.
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Sadly no... just because you use a higher level Spell Slot, I don't believe that actually heightens its effective level.
A heightened spell (using the metamagic feat) actually raises the effect spell level of a spell. The description of the feat gives an example of bypassing a lessor Globe of Invulnerability due to spell level by using this method.
Similarly, a heightened continual light spell would work.
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Contributor
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Also, a Continual Flame from a Cleric is a 3rd level spell. So, next time you adventure with a 5th level or higher cleric - get him to cast Continual Flame on something for you. Then buy sun rods.
An Ioun Torch apparently has a caster level of 12 (as I learned to my surprise a few minutes ago), so those would be an inexpensive way to counter Deeper Darkness, methinks, since the stone would already be lit (even if in a pocket or somesuch). Take it out and start to orbit, and there's your magical counter, I believe?
(Followed by Sunrods/Torches for the rest, as previously mentioned).
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Also, a Continual Flame from a Cleric is a 3rd level spell. So, next time you adventure with a 5th level or higher cleric - get him to cast Continual Flame on something for you. Then buy sun rods.An Ioun Torch apparently has a caster level of 12 (as I learned to my surprise a few minutes ago), so those would be an inexpensive way to counter Deeper Darkness, methinks, since the stone would already be lit (even if in a pocket or somesuch). Take it out and start to orbit, and there's your magical counter, I believe?
(Followed by Sunrods/Torches for the rest, as previously mentioned).
It's not about the caster level that was used when casting a spell / making an ioun torch. It is about the actual spell level. In this case, continual flame cast by a wizard is a lvl 2 spell and would not counter deeper darkness. However, as nosig pointed out, a cleric casts continual flame as a 3rd lvl spell and thus a clerics continual flame will counter deeper darkness.
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When facing dark folk (who have Deeper Darkness at-will) you're not going to out-Daylight their Darkness. Your best bet is to coordinate the party and arrange actions such that you can burst them down with the one turn you have before they put the Deeper Darkness back up.I am confused by your use of the phrase "...put the Deeper Darkness back up." Both Deeper Darkness and the 3rd level light spells (Daylight/Continual Flame) will over lap and continue to exist. A second Deeper Darkness doesn't make it darker...
I think some people play it as the spells cancel each other out and go away...kind of like a dispel magic. Then the enemy just casts deeper darkness again.
" Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level."
I play it as the spells never go away, it's just that where their effects overlap the light level is whatever it is naturally. I think if they wanted it to work like dispel magic they would have said something to that extent.
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When facing dark folk (who have Deeper Darkness at-will) you're not going to out-Daylight their Darkness. Your best bet is to coordinate the party and arrange actions such that you can burst them down with the one turn you have before they put the Deeper Darkness back up.I am confused by your use of the phrase "...put the Deeper Darkness back up." Both Deeper Darkness and the 3rd level light spells (Daylight/Continual Flame) will over lap and continue to exist. A second Deeper Darkness doesn't make it darker...I think some people play it as the spells cancel each other out and go away...kind of like a dispel magic. Then the enemy just casts deeper darkness again.
" Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level."
I play it as the spells never go away, it's just that where their effects overlap the light level is whatever it is naturally. I think if they wanted it to work like dispel magic they would have said something to that extent.
If one is active, the other can be cast on the same target (keeping in mind the range is "touch") and used to dispel the first without producing any additional effect. In this case, neither spell is active afterwards, and therefore an additional casting of one or the other will have full effect.
"Negated in the overlap" and "dispel" are two entirely separate things.
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or you could also go the other route.
strong defense by an even stronger offense.
have the summoner of your party call in some support:
earth elementals have tremor sense - plus they are immune to sneak dmg
giant spiders do too - and they can web, ensare, and grapple
giant bats have blindsense
take their advantage away with spells like:
blacklight - all but the cast can now see
cast your own deeper darkness - unless you are fighting darkfolk
cast improved invisibility
beast shape 2 gives you tremorsense
use tactics:
close the door and smoke the room till they die of suffocation
ready an action to grapple the next thing that attacks you
or, i dont know, step out of the darkness.
If your opponents can see in darkness, a simple Obscuring Mist will pretty much level the playing field. You still cannot see a thing, but neither can they.
Of course, this fails against opponents with blindsight or tremorsense.
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If your opponents can see in darkness, a simple Obscuring Mist will pretty much level the playing field. You still cannot see a thing, but neither can they.
Of course, this fails against opponents with blindsight or tremorsense.
Blindsense and tremorsense do not let you ignore concealement. They just let you know what square enemies are in. Blindsight does let you ignore concealment however.
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** spoiler omitted **When facing dark folk (who have Deeper Darkness at-will) you're not going to out-Daylight their Darkness. Your best bet is to coordinate the party and arrange actions such that you can burst them down with the one turn you have before they put the Deeper Darkness back up.I am confused by your use of the phrase "...put the Deeper Darkness back up." Both Deeper Darkness and the 3rd level light spells (Daylight/Continual Flame) will over lap and continue to exist. A second Deeper Darkness doesn't make it darker...I think some people play it as the spells cancel each other out and go away...kind of like a dispel magic. Then the enemy just casts deeper darkness again.
" Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level."
I play it as the spells never go away, it's just that where their effects overlap the light level is whatever it is naturally. I think if they wanted it to work like dispel magic they would have said something to that extent.
CORRECT
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If my brothers and I lived in the same area, we'd probably build a coordinated all-tiefling team and all of us take Fiend Sight twice to gain the See In Darkness monster ability. By mid levels, at least one of us would be capable of casting deeper darkness... maybe even save up for a wand of it. And at least one of us would be a rogue or ninja, and we'd always play the characters together.
>:D
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If my brothers and I lived in the same area, we'd probably build a coordinated all-tiefling team and all of us take Fiend Sight twice to gain the See In Darkness monster ability. By mid levels, at least one of us would be capable of casting deeper darkness... maybe even save up for a wand of it. And at least one of us would be a rogue or ninja, and we'd always play the characters together.
>:D
so... no girls allowed? is this like a tree-house boys club?
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If my brothers and I lived in the same area, we'd probably build a coordinated all-tiefling team and all of us take Fiend Sight twice to gain the See In Darkness monster ability. By mid levels, at least one of us would be capable of casting deeper darkness... maybe even save up for a wand of it. And at least one of us would be a rogue or ninja, and we'd always play the characters together.
>:D
Jiggy, when I read the title of this thread, I thought it was about PCs with darkvision using darkness to their advantage...
Like a PFS team comprised of people that can see in darkness: elemental races / fetchling / dwarf / gnome / half-orc PCs... a kind of black ops team.
You could have a frontliner, a shadowdancer, a cleric or inquisitor with the darkness domain, a ranged rogue (sneak attack all the time :D). Have them all invest in the "see in darkness" line of feats from the ARG. They'd be the group that the Venture Captains send in to "clean up" after the other Pathfinders drop the ball *yet* again. The best of the best of the best.
"In 4672 a crack adventuring unit was sent to an prison by an Aspis-bribed court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Absalom underground. Today, still wanted by the consortium, they survive as pathfinders of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team."