So looking through the adventurer's armory I came across the throwing shield which gave me the same idea some others have gotten. My question derives from wanting the "returning" property. To add the property the weapon has to be at least +1. The throwing shield entry say that weapon doesn't get a bonus from the AC enhancement or enhancements on shield spikes ... so that would imply that a shield can have 3 possible enhancements ... AC, spikes, and weapon. Is this assessment correct?
On a side note, I'm hoping it to be PFS legal but I have to do some research on that.
The throwing shield entry say that weapon doesn't get a bonus from the AC enhancement or enhancements on shield spikes ... so that would imply that a shield can have 3 possible enhancements ... AC, spikes, and weapon.
I think so.
You can enchant the shield as a shield, to give it a +1 enhancement bonus to AC.
You can enchant the shield as a weapon, to give it +1 enhancement bonus to hit and damage.
You can enchant shield spikes, which are added to a shield, to give the spikes a +1 enhancement bonus to hit and damage.
None of those enhancements affect the other, barring weird class abilities and whatnot.
A medium Spiked Light Throwing Shield can attack three ways:
A) Bash with the shield. 1d3 bludgeoning. If the shield itself is enchanted as a weapon, apply that.
B) Throw the shield. 1d6 bludgeoning. If the shield itself is enchanted as a weapon, apply that.
C) Bash with the spikes. 1d4 piercing. If the spikes are enchanted (as a weapon, always), apply that.
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Grick,
Out of curiousity, If I would apply a +1 weapon enchancement bonus to my light shield 1d3 and then make it Agile, would the the character get the benefit if bashing with the spike for 1d4 damage?
I didn't know the spike and shield were different.
If this is the case, then it seems a shield would get prohibitively expensive in order to use to it's full effect.
Grick,
Out of curiousity, If I would apply a +1 weapon enchancement bonus to my light shield 1d3 and then make it Agile, would the the character get the benefit if bashing with the spike for 1d4 damage?
I didn't know the spike and shield were different.
If this is the case, then it seems a shield would get prohibitively expensive in order to use to it's full effect.
From the way it is written the spike and shield are different and are enchanted seperately. My recommendation would be to avoid the spiked shield route if your going to throw it. Notice that the shield throw is a free action so its basically a free attack.
I'm pretty sure that "spikes" in this context refer to the weapon enhancement.
If you attach shield spikes it turns the shield into a spiked shield. It now does piercing damage and more of it. It can't do bashing anymore.
You don't enchant your sword, and then enchant the blade differently, do you?
Also from reading the actual text and not your paraphrased version, I think in fact it means something different.
The "enhancement bonus" just mentiones AC, the shield spikes are mentioned seperately. That means that in this context, if you throw your shield with shield spikes, those shield spikes do not increase the damage or change it to piercing.
A weapon enhancement to your throwing shield would still affect the damage and attack roll though.
As for returning property: I think you can do it, the throwing shield is a proper ranged weapon, so it would apply. However all it does is return the shield to you, it does not magically attach it to your arm again. You'll have to still spend a move action to attach it again to get its AC benefit.
Wow my first deaf of the throwing shield made me think it was a free action to unstrapped but you still needed a standard action to throw. The way its written would imply I can unstrapped my shield, throw it and then 5 ft step to full attack which seems a bit much.
In regard to my original post, if we remove the spikes ... can a shield have both an AC enhancement & a weapon enhancement?
Wow my first deaf of the throwing shield made me think it was a free action to unstrapped but you still needed a standard action to throw. The way its written would imply I can unstrapped my shield, throw it and then 5 ft step to full attack which seems a bit much.
In regard to my original post, if we remove the spikes ... can a shield have both an AC enhancement & a weapon enhancement?
Yep! I would take a one-handed weapon that you can two-hand. That way you could throw your shield and then 5-foot step in to a full-attack or if further away you could then charge. Just remember that a returning weapon does not return until just before the beginning of your next turn. So you spend an entire round without that AC bump.
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Since you 5' step out of the square you threw the weapon you also can't catch it and it drops to the ground, correct?
Therefore you just get the one free shot by throwing the shield, and if you 5' step in for a full attack you don't have your shield because at the beginning of your next turn it falls to the ground of the square which you threw it from.
I'm thinking to have a fighter with splintering weapon and a throwing bone shield (replacing a heavy wooden shield). Have a one-handed weapon that is two-handable, and at the start of combat, throw the shield and have it break to give them bleed. You still get all your attacks, and you can ask the wizard to use mending on your shield after the fight.
Since when are the spikes separate?
Since you 5' step out of the square you threw the weapon you also can't catch it and it drops to the ground, correct?
Therefore you just get the one free shot by throwing the shield, and if you 5' step in for a full attack you don't have your shield because at the beginning of your next turn it falls to the ground of the square which you threw it from.
Forgot about that part of returning.
Throwing Shield is most likely the most broken equipment Paizo has come up with.
Having Quick Draw and buying Throwing Quickdraw Shields, you end up with an unlimited number of free attacks (well limited by your carrying capacity and purse, 6 lb and 103 gp per attack).
I wonder if the RAI of a throwing shield was that you could unstrap a shield to un-ready it as a free action, allowing you to throw it with only a standard action. Opposed to the move action to unready + standard action to throw that a regular shield would take. Not that the attack is free.
Maybe FAQ candidate?
Throwing Shield is most likely the most broken equipment Paizo has come up with.
Having Quick Draw and buying Throwing Quickdraw Shields, you end up with an unlimited number of free attacks (well limited by your carrying capacity and purse, 6 lb and 103 gp per attack).
Just because they are "free actions" does not make them "free attacks".
Your number of attacks will still be limited by BAB (/TWF)
Your number of attacks are only relevant towards taking a full-attack action. There is nothing in the rules which an overall limit to attacks in a round. Besides AoOs, there isn't many additional attacks to those normally done during an attack action.
Since Throwing Shield, as written, is using a seperate action (which is free), and is thus not subject to a limit of attacks.In the rules, a GM can (and in this case should) the number of similar action a character can perform per turn. But sadly that isn't specific enough to fix this item.
@Tarantula: I think your solution is a valid one. If the free action is simply to ready the shield to be throw, we will avoid shield-mania. However, I might be inclined to allow it to be used as part of a full attack action as well.
@Tarantula: I think your solution is a valid one. If the free action is simply to ready the shield to be throw, we will avoid shield-mania. However, I might be inclined to allow it to be used as part of a full attack action as well.
If a character had 2 throwing shields equipped, they most certainly could throw both as part of a full-round attack much like throwing 2 daggers. If they had quickdraw, they could make their full BAB of attacks with regular shields, since they are just drawing and throwing them (not having to take them off their arm).
All this proves is that you can also use a throwing shield as an AoO...
The description of a throwing shield does not indicate or imply that it grants you extra actions.Further "free actions" are typically made as part of another action (or in response to one). I just don't see the rules basis for claiming more attacks than your BAB allows.
There is no rulewise connection between BAB and an overall number of attacks, besides during a full attack.
If you got natural weapons, you often make more attacks than your BAB would allow.Different abilities allows for extra attacks outside the normal iterative attack limits.
Concerning the throwing shield, it quite specifically states that it can be throw as a free action. That does literally indicate an extra action, as a free action is such.
According to the rules for free action, there are no mention of them being connected to other actions. You are correct that there are quite many instances where that is the case, but that is spelled out in the specific cases.
Mind you, I am not trying to defend making a lot of free attacks with throwing shields. I actually agree with you that it is how it should. I was merely pointing out that the rules as written in this case is terribly, and needs revision. In arguing that I am concerned with a RAW reading however ludacris it might be in practice. And in that case the limits to attacks or ties between free actions and other actions does not exist.
Anyway, the only way this is broken is that it would allow you to take your full attack and still have a standard and move left over which couldn't be used for any additional attacks (which is still pretty broken) but it's nowhere near infinite attacks
The problem is, if you allow Quickdraw Throwing Shields, then readying one is a free action. Unstrapping and throwing one is a free action. Repeat until you run out or the DM limits your free actions for the turn.
This is because the text of the Throwing Shield says the straps are "allowing you to unclasp and throw it as a free action."
The intent is almost certainly to be "allowing you to unclasp it as a free action in order to throw it."
Broken: Throwing it as a free action.
Fixed: Throwing it using whatever attack method you would normally have.