| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
While preparing a lengthier post on historically more accurate rules for the Pathfinder polearms in the Core and APG books, I noticed that the Chain Spear has some strange stat line entries.
Here are my questions:
1) Is the Chain Spear a double weapon?
The damage entries make it look like one [Dmg(S) 1d4/1d4 | Dmg(M) 1d6/1d6], however it doesn't have the 'double' weapon special feature nor does the description explicitly say it is a double weapon.
The only explanation I have is that it is only possible to attack with either the chain end OR the spear end and that the 1d6/1d6 damage stat represents the damage for each end. However, that would make the Chain Spear the only weapon in Pathfinder with such a notation. Other weapons that have multiple separate ways to attack, like the Halberd (either piercing with the tip or slashing with the axe blade) only have one damage stat.
2) Shouldn't the damage type just be piercing instead of piercing AND slashing?
Both weapons the Chain Spear is based on, for each of its ends, are piercing weapons: The Shortspear and the Spiked Chain both have the piercing damage type.
UPDATE:
I just found out that the errata for the Adventurer's Armory supplement, where the Chain Spear was first introduced, adds the 'double' special feature to the stat line. This really makes it look like a mistake in the APG.
Also, in the same errata, the damage type is changed to piercing OR slashing. This means we have two different damage type rules for the Chain Spear.
Also, in the same errata, the damage type is changed to piercing OR slashing. This means we have two different damage type rules for the Chain Spear.
No, just one. The errata is official changes to the rules. When errata fixes something, that's the change noted in the next printing, which is the correct one. When an older edition of a book, and a newer version or errata conflict, the newer edition/errata is the correct one.
So a chain spear is P or S. It can deal either of those two types of damage. In a situation where the damage type is significant, the wielder can choose which type of damage to deal. (Just like a dagger)
Grick: I think his point was that the errata is for the Adventurer's Armory, and not for the APG.
Grick: I think his point was that the errata is for the Adventurer's Armory, and not for the APG.
Exactly.
Grick: I think his point was that the errata is for the Adventurer's Armory, and not for the APG.
Ahh, quite right.
So we have -
AA Chain Spear: P or S, double
APG Chain Spear: P and S, no double
So, much like the Scorpion Whip, we've got weapons that function differently with the same name in multiple books.
I'll run it as different, unfortunately named weapons. (Because the old Scorpion Whip was SO much better, and the new one makes no sense. Same now with the Chain Spear.)
Yes, but that still leaves you with the puzzling damage entries in the APG. Why does it have the 1d6/1d6 entry if it isn't a double weapon?
Also, in both cases the damage type doesn't make sense. What part of the weapon deals slashing damage? It is impossible to know, since both the Shortspear and the Spiked Chain exclusively deal piercing damage and the descriptive text doesn't specify it either.
Because the errata for the AA came out after the release of the APG.
Because the errata for the AA came out after the release of the APG.
You'd think they'd errata the APG to match the AA errata, though.
Because the errata for the AA came out after the release of the APG.You'd think they'd errata the APG to match the AA errata, though.
You'd think, but they haven't for other issues.
As it stands, the current version of the AA is what you use.
Because the errata for the AA came out after the release of the APG.You'd think they'd errata the APG to match the AA errata, though.You'd think, but they haven't for other issues.
As it stands, the current version of the AA is what you use.
They don't need to put it in the errata right away. A mention in the FAQ would be just fine.
Also, if the AA is what we use, it still doesn't solve the problem of which end does slashing damage...
First off and this is an honest question what is with you and piercing weapons man?
Second i can't find a description of the weapon but i would assume that the slashing comes from something whipped around at high speed. Still find piercing for spiked chain odd myself.
First off and this is an honest question what is with you and piercing weapons man?
LOL! Honestly though, it's simply coincidence. I just like weapon rules that are consistent and as realistic as possible within the abstract rule set of an RPG.
Oh and I'm a HUGE fan of Polearms.Second i can't find a description of the weapon but i would assume that the slashing comes from something whipped around at high speed. Still find piercing for spiked chain odd myself.
I agree that "P and S" would have made more sense for the Spiked Chain, although just piercing isn't too unrealistic.
Still, if the rules were consistent, the damage type for the spiked chain end would be the same as for the Spiked Chain.Another thing is the hook at the end of the chain. The only hook weapon in the game I know of is the Ogre Hook, which also is a piercing weapon. So, whatever way one looks at it, both ends of the Chain Spear should deal piercing damage.
First off and this is an honest question what is with you and piercing weapons man?
I decided a few days that he just has a fetish for piercing weapons. Probably repressed urges for things sliding into other things, to keep it PG13.
I decided a few days that he just has a fetish for piercing weapons. Probably repressed urges for things sliding into other things, to keep it PG13.
After a mere 3 threads that vaguely have to do with piercing weapons you come to this conclusion?
Well, I definitely can't commend you for any "piercing" perceptiveness.