Does soft cover stack? Is it +4 for every person between the firer and the target e.g +8 for two people?
No, if you have cover, you have cover. If it's soft cover, then you only have soft cover. Basically take the worst of the cover conditions that apply and use that one. A series of low walls isn't going to grant you move cover than just one.
Does precise shot factor into soft cover?
No. Precise Shot eliminates the -4 attack penalty for firing into melee. Cover is an AC bonus. They are unrelated. (If you don't have Precise Shot, and you shoot into melee at a target with soft cover, you have a -4 penalty to attack, and he has a +4 bonus to AC.)
|
Grick is correct i agree in addition
Improved Precise Shot (Combat)
Your ranged attacks ignore anything but total concealment and cover.
Prerequisites: Dex 19, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks.
Normal: See the normal rules on the effects of cover and concealment in Combat.
So if you are behind your melee guy and want to shoot the enemy in front of him that enemy gets +4 to AC? Even if you took Precise shot for shooting into melee without penalty?
That would mean someone without this would have to hit AC +8.
Seems like a bit of redundancy there?
Should this be a nerf of the oh so mighty archer builds?
Kind of really bad for everyone else...
That would mean someone without this would have to hit AC +8.
No, soft cover is +4 AC to the target.
Shooting into melee is -4 Attack to the shooter.
They are unrelated.
The thing is, this is not D&D and also not 3.0 or 3.5
Most of the problems come from confusing this or sticking to stuff from there and before ...
And your answer didn´t clear up anything so far.
If you would have the grace to explain someone obviously lacking your understanding of these rules please?
Grick, that would effectively cancel each other in most cases.
It wouldn't cancel out Hayato, it makes it harder to hit. Its not technically a +8 to AC, but is effectively. You need both the precise shot feats to ignore this. Or, you need the first one and the ability to move to a place where your line of fire is clear. This means being on the same row as the enemy usually. Or your melee bud could 5ft step away after his turn to give you a free shot.
Also an optional rule is that when more than half the target is visible the soft cover bonus drops to just a +2.
Grick, that would effectively cancel each other in most cases.
No, a +4 AC for the target and a -4 to hit would end up requiring you to roll 8 higher than usual. It's pretty brutal. Ranged attacks are difficult--it's the price for getting to full attack nearly all the time.
And your answer didn´t clear up anything so far.
You are an elf, with a bow. You want to shoot that orc over there.
Normally, you make an attack roll. If the result meets or exceeds the orcs AC, you hit.
If the orc is fighting with your dwarf buddy, you have to take extra care to not hit your dwarf buddy, so you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll.
If your human buddy stands directly in front of you, between you and the orc, the orc has soft cover, and gets a +4 AC bonus.
If your human buddy is standing in the way, AND the orc is fighting with your dwarf buddy, then you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll and the orc gains a +4 AC bonus.
If you have the feat Precise Strike, you don't take the attack penalty for shooting into melee, but the orc still gets any applicable cover bonus to his AC.
If you have the feat Improved Precise Shot, then the orc doesn't get his bonus to AC from anything less than total cover.
If the orc is fighting with your dwarf buddy, you have to take extra care to not hit your dwarf buddy, so you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll.
Wait Grick, are you saying there is no soft cover bonus for this instance? Why?
If the orc is fighting with your dwarf buddy, you have to take extra care to not hit your dwarf buddy, so you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll.Wait Grick, are you saying there is no soft cover bonus for this instance? Why?
There might be a soft cover bonus, but only if your buddy is in the way of your shot.
Keep in mind, if you are standing in the West and shoot an orc who is next to an ally of yours standing in the East, you still take the -4. That rule doesn't care where the ally stands as long as he's in melee with the target. Soft Cover cares where the ally stands.
If the orc is fighting with your dwarf buddy, you have to take extra care to not hit your dwarf buddy, so you take a -4 penalty to your attack roll.Wait Grick, are you saying there is no soft cover bonus for this instance? Why?
Only if he's in the way.
[Elf] ----> [Orc][Dwarf]
Orc is in melee, but no cover.
[Elf] ----> [Human] ...... [Orc][Dwarf]
Both in melee, and soft cover.
So, just to clarify...
[Elf] ----> [Dwarf][Orc]
The Orc gets a +4 AC AND the Elf gets a -4 to attack. That's what I was thinking.
Thank you. Didn´t know that rule yet and we never played it that way.
My GM comes from 3.5, but is more the magic guy.
Always nice to learn something new.
This makes the Ranger's being able to qualify for Improved Precise shot early (6th level opposed to 11th) and without the other prerequites (which frees up as many as 2 feats) extremely beneficial...
If you have Improved Precise Shot, but not Precise Shot, you will still take the -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
|
If you have Improved Precise Shot, but not Precise Shot, you will still take the -4 penalty for shooting into melee.
Seriously? The way I read improved precise shot you would ignore anything except total cover & concealment. "Anything" by definition should include the - 4 penalty for firing into melee.
Is there errata or an official ruling on this anywhere? I've never bothered to look because that ruling came from my GM and to be honest it seemed pretty straightforward.
Seriously? The way I read improved precise shot you would ignore anything except total cover & concealment. "Anything" by definition should include the - 4 penalty for firing into melee.
Improved Precise Shot (Combat): "Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by anything less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks."
Shooting into melee is not an AC bonus, so Improved Precise Shot has nothing to do with it.
|
Besides, the implied meaning of the feat would be:
Your ranged attacks ignore the AC bonus granted to targets by [any cover] less than total cover, and the miss chance granted to targets by [any concealment] less than total concealment. Total cover and total concealment provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks."
For instance, you couldn't ignore the AC bonus of a target's light shield because it is 'anything less than total cover'. Since the -4 to hit a target in melee isn't related to cover or concealment the Improved Precise Shot feat really has nothing to do with it.
If you have Improved Precise Shot, but not Precise Shot, you will still take the -4 penalty for shooting into melee.Seriously? The way I read improved precise shot you would ignore anything except total cover & concealment. "Anything" by definition should include the - 4 penalty for firing into melee.
Is there errata or an official ruling on this anywhere? I've never bothered to look because that ruling came from my GM and to be honest it seemed pretty straightforward.
Under normal circumstances, Improved Precise Shot requires Precise Shot, which is what allows you to ignore the -4 for shooting into melee. If you short-cut getting it (eg via ranger bonus feat), without the prerequisites, you do not benefit from any prerequisites that you do not actually have.