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Has anyone ever run a campaign where there are no divine spell casters? Has it been a problem? The obvious deficit would be the lack of party healing. As a fix, would you recommend adding the Cure X Wounds spells to the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or would enabling them to cast those spells (as well as use wands and scrolls) be too unbalancing?
Everyone can put point in UMD and use some wands of cure light wounds. Other stuff could be more problematics like restoration but party can buy scrolls.
Also it would help if you state the party composition.
Nicos wrote:
Also it would help if you state the party composition.
There's no party at this point. I was just spit balling some ideas for a setting in which all the gods killed themselves in a cosmic war, leaving no one to grant divine spells.
Bards would become very useful for their healing abilities likely, plus other spells like Infernal Healing.
It kind of depends on what the PC's do in the campaign. If you don't focus on damage, poisons, diseases and other things that divine casters are usually the go to people for and give them enough time to recover normally it should work out fine.
If you plan on doing a combat heavy game it'll be rough, if you focus more on adventure, role-playing and problem solving it should be just fine. :)
Bards, Infernal Healing spell, and most importantly Alchemists would fill the healing gap.
In such a world (where traveling wizards don't have a friendly priestly companion) arcane casters would have spent more effort coming up with a range of healing spells.
If that isn't true scrolls/wands/potions of healing/restoration/etc will either be a limited resource and getting scarcer ever time one is use or could be ruled to simply not work because their aren't any gods left to grant the effect. In either case large ranges of creatures should be considered more dangerous and of a higher CR, if their isn't the ability to recover from a condition easily the fight is much higher risk.
Witch, bard and alchemist all can fill in.
Furious Kender wrote: Witch, bard and alchemist all can fill in. Witch can be debatable in this situation.
Better be very nice to the alchemists of the world, because your not going to find a lot of access to Restoration or it's less/greater forms without divine spell casters. Not going to find a wand or scroll of them either, and potions will be limited to Lesser due to potion creation rules unless some archetype or other thing sneaks them onto an arcane spell caster's list. Witch maybe?
Oh yeah, Healing Patron saves the day.
I do this on a regular basis since I hate the idea of a priest being able to cast spells. I replace magical zealots with a s+@%load of chirurgeons (alchemists with bad handwriting and Heal as a class skill) and if anyone needs serious healing, they bring a tribute to the high-level witch in the woods.
Necromancer wrote: I do this on a regular basis since I hate the idea of a priest being able to cast spells. I replace magical zealots with a s%$~load of chirurgeons (alchemists with bad handwriting and Heal as a class skill) and if anyone needs serious healing, they bring a tribute to the high-level witch in the woods. In many ways, that's my thinking. Is there any role for priests in your campaign?
I was thinking evil arcane spell casters could organize cults just as easily as a cleric or druid could.
I just can't see all the gods dying in a cosmic war to be honest you could always allow a few trickster gods to have survived by cheating death as all good tricksters do and since everyone else is dead they supply the divine backing for healing and the like allowing arcane casters to make use of it with say a 5% chance of something interesting happening instead of healing.
Greatbear wrote: Necromancer wrote: I do this on a regular basis since I hate the idea of a priest being able to cast spells. I replace magical zealots with a s%$~load of chirurgeons (alchemists with bad handwriting and Heal as a class skill) and if anyone needs serious healing, they bring a tribute to the high-level witch in the woods. In many ways, that's my thinking. Is there any role for priests in your campaign?
I was thinking evil arcane spell casters could organize cults just as easily as a cleric or druid could. I always leave religion and the clergy intact--religion's a great vessel for drama and misery. I leave oracles, druids, and paladins mostly intact, but I nearly rewrite the cleric.
I use with this archetype (LINK) as a starting point.
-Expand the skill choices to include Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Perform (Oratory), and Perform (Sing). I remove Spellcraft, Knowledge (Planes), and Knowledge (Arcana).
-Increase skills per level to 6+INT modifier.
-Expand weapon proficiencies to include longsword, warhammer, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, launching crossbow, light crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light repeating crossbow, and all bows.
-Add medium armor proficiency
-No access to spells or domains, but may select two inquisitions.
-Replace Scribe Scroll feat with Skill Focus.
I call it the Priest.
I think it is more "realistic" (ha, talk about realism in a fantasy setting with magic elves and gods) if the gods just suddenly either stopped responding (disappeared, may be otherwise preoccupied) or a great threat emerged which truly managed to drain most of their powers.
Although a lot can change depending on if druids and rangers also lose their powers or not.
Reasoning for this method:
It would ingame explain why while divine classes suddenly lost power there ae still some people with lingering divine abilities (bards, witches, etc), it would also explain why items created with/through divine power still work.
Realistic reaction of the world to this:
- chaos and wars, those realms which were strong thanks mainly to their Faith and protection/strength of their god(s) submerge into the new dark age first
- Arcane power wielding opportunist Lords, charlatans, demon lords, and all kind of other things and people rejoice and begin to rampage or plan patiently for the long term, some annex nations others create cults
- as chaos expands ordinary people also stop following laws as bandits and arcanists pillage, greater realms break down into small societies, city-states which fend for themselves
- even if arcane users in some places try to keep order and help people, sooner or later somewhere on the world the idea that they are the fault at the gods disappearing will emerge and spread
- lesser celestial entities try to find their way, godlings and demigods see this as either opportunity or duty to try to become new gods, angels and similar try to find a new reason for their existence, some may become leader of communities while others will fall and become corrupted
- as a new order emerges there may be many lawless regions, many city states that survived in some way, new realms which were born under non-caster/arcanist/cultist/fiendish or other rule, some places might worship a "royal" family (be it truly noble or a magic bloodline or so) as savior of their ancient realm which survived, others may become hateful of any kind of spellcaster, blaming them for disappearance of the true gods, some realm may ignore the facts and claim this is divine punishment or that the gods are still around and nothing happened, these places become ruled by clergy of past gods
Well, this is basically a setting in which witches and sorcerers are more hated than the usual high fantasy setting (unless being lucky enough to live in a place where they are rulers or similar), self-dedicated witch hunters may roam the lands to hunt spellcasters, mortals try to become gods and where devils and demons are the closest in power to gods, other than actual mortal children of gods (godlings, like Hercules as example)
Such setting would work well for using those 3 godling classes which don't really fit into anywhere else, they could still create their own divine power, although to make the setting working for a game only max 1 of them should be a player
Creatures with some divine connection (real or imagined) would be more worth living or dead, they may be worshiped even (unicorns or Gold Dragons or nymphs, heck even a mere Seer human child)
...sorry, the idea got me mumbling for this long, just ignore this wanderer
Also depends if it's just gods or also god-like beings like the Demon Lords, arch-Devils, etc...
I am from Hungary, we also have a setting which was a few years ago transferred to d20 system, it basically converted the existing classes so now it is easy to compare that system to pathfinder and similar
In this setting, spellcasters were often more powerful than any other class, sure the game may not be balanced, but life is harsh and it is NOT balanced. A Wizard of medium level with some thought given can kill a high lever fighter, maybe more. There are often magiocracies, warlocks, or witches ruling over cities and realms.
Basic differences between that system and usual D&D:
scholars (cleric, wizard, psion, bard) have under d20 all 6 or 8 skill point per level, they are the educated ones after all, I still wonder how it can be casters in d&d tend to have 2 skill points
rogues have 10 per level, there is no class with just 2 skills per level, the minimum is 4
magic system in that setting is unique, you don't get a "fireball" spell, instead you have mosaic magic, where you combine "spell mosaics" like force/fire/area and you get a magic unique to you where you decide how strong the spell is in various ways, the spellcasters in that system use mana points (spell points) instead of spells per level and you can use a certain amount of points to determinate how much you can power up whatever you want to cast, there is a certain max power you can use in casting spells however which is determined by character level and skill, this restriction replaced the max spell level you can cast
So, I listed these because i think in a low divine magic setting it would benefit to have increased skill ranges for all classes too, not just because Heal but because overall skills would matter more, not just because one may fall and get an injury because no point in climbing or balance, but also because a failed diplomacy or swim could also easily result as that. Without your usual insta-healing (and with only a few casters capable to do it t o a lesser extend) it becomes just as important to avoid injury as it is to heal them
I don't really mind spellcasters overall (and really don't mind divine casters, although I prefer the priest class to the armored cleric I guess) but I do like one great benefit of such a no-cleric/paladin setting: there is no "know alignment" spell and usual knights become way more important
You will never know if the witch the villagers hired you to burn is an evil childeater or a good white witch, you will never be certain a well respected old priest is a kind and helpful friend, or an evil charlatan hell-bent on keeping power of the town to himself
Belle Mythix wrote: Also depends if it's just gods or also god-like beings like the Demon Lords, arch-Devils, etc... if so, then it would be just way more simple to declare all otherworldly and spells banned altogether
Necromancer wrote:
I always leave religion and the clergy intact--religion's a great vessel for drama and misery. I leave oracles, druids, and paladins mostly intact, but I nearly rewrite the cleric.
I use with this archetype (LINK) as a starting point.
-Expand the skill choices to include Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Perform (Oratory), and Perform (Sing). I remove Spellcraft, Knowledge (Planes), and Knowledge (Arcana).
-Increase skills per level to 6+INT modifier.
-Expand weapon proficiencies to include longsword, warhammer, hand crossbow, heavy crossbow, launching crossbow, light crossbow, heavy repeating crossbow, light repeating crossbow, and all bows.
-Add medium armor proficiency
-No access to spells or domains, but may select two inquisitions.
-Replace Scribe Scroll feat with Skill Focus.
I call it the Priest.
Pretty interesting. Maybe add some rogue talents and call it the charlatan.
Anyway, here are some thoughts I've had for the various divine classes:
Clerics: Probably won't be in this campaign at all. Honestly, I've always thought they were the dullest class in every incarnation of the game. They hang around mainly because of their "heal monkey" status.
Druids: Maybe keep them as worshipers of local or ancestral spirits.
Paladins: Probably won't be using them either.
Rangers: Never was comfortable with spell casting rangers. I'll probably use the spell-less ranger Open Design published instead.
Inquisitors: This class always strikes me as more suited for villains than for PCs. Anyone have experience with the variant Justicar and Witch Hunter from Super Genius? I may use them for this role instead.
Oracles: I'm kind of leaning toward having them as the result of a residual curse from the cosmic war. They may hate the very idea of gods and blame them for their curse despite the powers it grants them.
The other thought I had was to create spell-less variants of the druid and oracle.
Belle Mythix wrote: Also depends if it's just gods or also god-like beings like the Demon Lords, arch-Devils, etc... The various outsider races (archons, demons, devils, proteans, inevitables, etc) would be left to their own devices without gods watching over them. Many of the more powerful ones see it as "their time" to become gods. Some of the arch-devils and demon lords survived, but they can't grant spells without the assistance of the gods.
Greatbear wrote:
Pretty interesting. Maybe add some rogue talents and call it the charlatan.
Anyway, here are some thoughts I've had for the various divine classes:
Clerics: Probably won't be in this campaign at all. Honestly, I've always thought they were the dullest class in every incarnation of the game. They hang around mainly because of their "heal monkey" status.
Druids: Maybe keep them as worshipers of local or ancestral spirits.
Paladins: Probably won't be using them either.
Rangers: Never was comfortable with spell casting rangers. I'll probably use the spell-less ranger Open Design published instead.
Inquisitors: This class always strikes me as more suited for villains than for PCs. Anyone have experience with the variant Justicar and Witch Hunter from Super Genius? I may use them for this role instead.
Oracles: I'm kind of leaning toward having them as the result of a residual curse from the cosmic war. They may hate the...
Just as a point:
Clerics really don't need to be played as heal monkeys they make perfectly good secondary combatants if armored up properly and can serve in several other roles if you choose to build them as such, the heal monkey idea is a bit of a hold over.
Druids the way I imagine them aren't associated with gods as much as with nature itself they're just "divine" casters because the spell list is more beneficial nature-y stuff than fireballs and acid and curses.
Paladins - Meh whatever works I personally don't like em just because the code is annoying.
Rangers you could always give them the Trapper Archetype as a required choice instead or one of the others that replaces spellcasting iirc there are a few that are in the rules.
Inquisitors really don't need to be all Spanish Inquisition even though they can be built that way I made a one shot of one who was really just a friendly drunken worshiper of Cayden Calien and the only time he really blew his fuse was after some bandits seemed to insult the quality of his ale that he was offering to drink with them.
Greatbear wrote: Belle Mythix wrote: Also depends if it's just gods or also god-like beings like the Demon Lords, arch-Devils, etc... The various outsider races (archons, demons, devils, proteans, inevitables, etc) would be left to their own devices without gods watching over them. Many of the more powerful ones see it as "their time" to become gods. Some of the arch-devils and demon lords survived, but they can't grant spells without the assistance of the gods. charlatans - in my head, that fits as an archetype of bard perfectly, no one else could fake them being divinely guided clerics as good as bards with bluff and disguise and knowledge/skill
outsiders - I see you liked most of what I wrote :)
as for demons, I think a Demon Lord would be most likely to become a god the quickest, such a goal could easily become reason for a player campaign, where mortals (and godlings) gather up to stop the demon reaching it
demons and devils can also offer powers in many ways, either some fiendish class, summoning bonuses to casters (let's say a follower of a demon can cast stronger and more demons), actual replacement of limbs and such, or heck even longterm alliance with a family which lets their wifes and daughters into bed with the fiend so their bloodline will in the coming generations inherit some of its powers
I honestly see a lot of possibilities for such a setting, as said some places/realms may kiss the ground where mages walk, in other places it could be as in Dragon Age where they get locked up and watched over by non-casters. Being a mage in any of these 2 would be interesting, in one the story would most likely be about intrigue/politics/how a mage treats the common folk, the other about survival or escape, with showing how the common folk treats those damned casters
Inquisitors would probably work best as clerics actually if given them divine spells and powers (except healing, to avoid them becoming the new "healing monkeys"), if I would do this I would let them pick normal Domains and give them a proper sorcerer-like spell progression (but I would make sure in such a dark setting the God of Life would not respond, to deny it the ability to take Heal/Life and similar domains)
Oracles: these seers are like druids, they don't normally get their powers from one god, you could say they get it from "spiritualism" through mystical ways. If druid exists so should oracles, these people would most likely become something like a national treasure however, with all their life being birds in golden cage, telling fortunes of lords and healing the royal family, while due to social class and philosophy druids couldn't be restrained for such a misuse, oracles could easily become just as hard to live as, as witches if they don't hide their power
@joriandrake: The Hungarian RPG setting you mention sounds way cool. Is there an English version/translation?
Oceanshieldwolf wrote: @joriandrake: The Hungarian RPG setting you mention sounds way cool. Is there an English version/translation? I believe there was a partial translation, not sure if it got ever finished, can check it but will most likely take more than a week to reply
as for what I liked most in the setting, it was mostly 3 unique things:
1. the way magic was handled (you make your own spells through mosaic magic)
2. the way a beginner character started out (you don't start at adventurer class, instead you have "level A, B C," where you combine base classes to get requirements for let's say, Wizard or Fighter or Thief, these 3 additional "civilian" levels helped customize your character, a person growing up in the slums could be very different from one in a noble family, even if both became fighters or knights later on, plus char would get a few more feats/HP/skills compared to 3.5/pathfinder on low level. One could still multiclass and there was no arcane armor failure although it was hard to get a wizard able to wear one because a lot of skills and feats were already required just to take the wizard class itself, this represented how it focused on mental education)
3. my favorite, the skill "Sexual Culture", it basically meant how good your char is in bed, how much you can please your partner(s), how much you can take advantage of the desires of these to persuade them to get some gold, some title, information, and so on (not through diplomacy, merely through making them rely on you and wanting to please you, a courtesan may not be a great diplomat but could still get her way) the RPG was a very mature setting, even in core book you could see some nudity depicted on some characters, themes of slavers, massacres, weird XYZphilias, child labor, all were there printed in the very first books, you can't see things like these in the prude d&d books, the closest you can get to these are in the World of Darkness books. This skill was used a lot by nobles, bards, witches, whores, perverts, and there were also some example spells named which would make an enemy want to get nekkid on the spot, desire something else than its own species, and so on.
Sure you can do most of these in 3.5/pathfinder too but these "taboo" themes were never specifically listed in the books and only a rare few witch/bard spells are similar that only got out recently (well, I mean "recent" as in after 2005)
EDIT: this may interest you
LINK
since it was written the amount of RP-ers increased about a third, considering the total population size it is still a very remarkable percentage, but the mention about book costs is sadly still very true, and is one of the main causes if a player stops playing, or gets stuck with an old edition
LINK 2
Well, my S&S campaign is two fighters, a rogue, and a paladin - it's only just started, though, so we'll have to see how that goes. I'm planning on making it lower-magic than it's written, partly just to suit them, and partly so that I can better tailor the magic as does exist. I'll encourage them to take ranks in Heal, at some point, and I'll probably allow a good skill check to restore some hit points. I've been debating the Wound/Vigor variant, as well - that could make the whole Heal skill more visceral, you know? Also, it could explain how a skill check to, for example, wrap a twisted ankle, might restore Vigor points. Sewing up a deep gash might not only stabilize, but double the healing that rest would normally offer.
Also, there's a lot to say for Knowledge (Nature) / Heal / Craft (Alchemy) and the sorts of herbs available in a magical world. Any reason why a decent poultice can't have the same effect as a CLW potion?
Greatbear wrote: Necromancer wrote: - snip -
I call it the Priest.
Pretty interesting. Maybe add some rogue talents and call it the charlatan.
Anyway, here are some thoughts I've had for the various divine classes:
Clerics: Probably won't be in this campaign at all. Honestly, I've always thought they were the dullest class in every incarnation of the game. They hang around mainly because of their "heal monkey" status.
Druids: Maybe keep them as worshipers of local or ancestral spirits.
Paladins: Probably won't be using them either.
Rangers: Never was comfortable with spell casting rangers. I'll probably use the spell-less ranger Open Design published instead.
Inquisitors: This class always strikes me as more suited for villains than for PCs. Anyone have experience with the variant Justicar and Witch Hunter from Super Genius? I may use them for this role instead.
Oracles: I'm kind of leaning toward having them as the result of a residual curse from the cosmic war. They may hate the very idea of gods and blame them for their curse despite the powers it grants them.
The other thought I had was to create spell-less variants of the druid and oracle. The more I think about the priest, the more I'm considering it an adept replacement rather than a cleric.
I never considered druids and oracles any more 'divine' than a wizard. I see oracles getting their abilities from a sort of cosmic quirk (maybe Shub-Niggurath sneezed on them or something) and druids pulling their powers from the natural world (the same sort of magic powering fey, but not necessarily from fey).
For paladins, I combine the Warrior of the Holy Light and Oathbound Paladin (Oath of Loyalty) archetypes. No spells and no Smite Evil; completely removing alignment mechanics from the game takes a while, but it's worth it.
For rangers, I just slap on the Skirmisher archetype.
I've got no suggestions for the inquisitor, because I haven't had to deal with my players handling the class enough for it to be a problem...yet.
This is why I wish the system would treat magic as magic and leave deities out of it. I really hate the idea of a character depending on something like a patron to pull off magic - most of this is a result of me playing through way too many Forgotten Realms campaigns.
I love this idea. I am working on my next campaign to start in six months and this is a direction I am taking for sure.
I like the Rangers/Druids getting their spells from the fey/natural realm rather than the gods, so they could remain while the Paladin/Cleric are stripped of powers.
Michael Radagast wrote: Well, my S&S campaign is two fighters, a rogue, and a paladin - it's only just started, though, so we'll have to see how that goes. I'm planning on making it lower-magic than it's written, partly just to suit them, and partly so that I can better tailor the magic as does exist. I'll encourage them to take ranks in Heal, at some point, and I'll probably allow a good skill check to restore some hit points. I've been debating the Wound/Vigor variant, as well - that could make the whole Heal skill more visceral, you know? Also, it could explain how a skill check to, for example, wrap a twisted ankle, might restore Vigor points. Sewing up a deep gash might not only stabilize, but double the healing that rest would normally offer.
Also, there's a lot to say for Knowledge (Nature) / Heal / Craft (Alchemy) and the sorts of herbs available in a magical world. Any reason why a decent poultice can't have the same effect as a CLW potion?
You might want to consider suggesting (or even just giving out, if you feel generous) a feat similar to the Faster Healer Feat from 3.5. It basically increased the rate of natural healing. It's page 98 of Complete Warrior.
Morganstern wrote: Michael Radagast wrote: Well, my S&S campaign is two fighters, a rogue, and a paladin - it's only just started, though, so we'll have to see how that goes. I'm planning on making it lower-magic than it's written, partly just to suit them, and partly so that I can better tailor the magic as does exist. I'll encourage them to take ranks in Heal, at some point, and I'll probably allow a good skill check to restore some hit points. I've been debating the Wound/Vigor variant, as well - that could make the whole Heal skill more visceral, you know? Also, it could explain how a skill check to, for example, wrap a twisted ankle, might restore Vigor points. Sewing up a deep gash might not only stabilize, but double the healing that rest would normally offer.
Also, there's a lot to say for Knowledge (Nature) / Heal / Craft (Alchemy) and the sorts of herbs available in a magical world. Any reason why a decent poultice can't have the same effect as a CLW potion?
You might want to consider suggesting (or even just giving out, if you feel generous) a feat similar to the Faster Healer Feat from 3.5. It basically increased the rate of natural healing. It's page 98 of Complete Warrior.
I'd probably give them something of the like or regeneration or implement an extreme form of Fast healing that let you get 1hp per hour or a percentage of your max hp per day say 25% or so.
But @Mike the reason a decent poultice can't CLW is because nothing in the natural word functions the way magical healing does. At best a natural potion would net you regeneration or fast healing or something of the sort.
Have a party in Kingmaker - no clerics, bards or pallys. NPC Witch w/Hedge Witch, along with potions and healing items, is generally holding up ok (8th-9th level now in the campaign). Using all the healing hexes + scar, to do small amounts of healing at range. NPC also has Reach Spell and can do up a few heavier healing spells at range too. Had a couple of deaths so far, three chapters in, but I think only one might have been due to lack of power healing. NPC does a lot of converting spells into healing spells, it seems. Then hexing, when opportunity presents itself.
The group is kicking around purchase of a Staff of Healing - add that into the mix and they'll be fine, I think.
Lack of a cleric hasn't hurt them, yet. I think it might, as the campaign progresses, though.
when you talk about clerics and existing gods, you have to agree that if gods exist in a fantasy setting they have to give spells to their followers/clergy
I have no issue with that at all and seems the normal thing to do, what I have a problem with that usually one can't be a cleric of a pantheon, or that all clerics got in past editions slapped the healer role on and also later overpowered by armor and weapon skills
Is a cleric faithful to a god of light and life? let it get healing spells in dozens and maybe some fire spells with light spells. Is a cleric a priest of a god of death and undead? give it control/rebuke undead ability and necromantic spells. Is the cleric following a goddess of war? Let it have those armor and weapon skills and some support spells
I don'"t like how standardization is handled, I don't like how a cleric of knowledge gets usually the same amount of skill points per level and abilities as a cleric of a god that favors barbarian rage
Anyway, I like the druid idea, although I always considered druids follow nature spirits, maybe even "mother nature", it may be sentient but not of god level, or a Druid gets support of various local nature spirits (so if he wanders from forest through urban to winterlands, she would get different support and granted spells in a forest, the city, and the snowy mountains. A druid with a domain would most likely represent the domain as a focus of her personality and beliefs, as example a healer would get the Healing domain while one that loves the sun and light the Sun domain)
btw, what I mentioned about the setting where classes are not balanced a single strong spellcaster would be more interesting and flavorful
I don't think a game is automatically "broken" just because it is unbalanced, a game where sorcerers are super strong or one whee knights have proper and strong influence and resources at hand could be way more interesting than a balanced game. Consider how people would think in such setting though, if a low level caster can kill off a dozen fighters it is likely they are looked upon similar to dragons, the casters may depending on world even be immortal (or just aging stops at a point)
One of the settings I played in for years had a special "alien" (abberant? mystical?) humanoid species which had the Power of Words, essentially you hearing it speak could melt your brain, or they could whisper and stun you, and really anything similar. Even dragons weren't match for them. They were usually considered evil/cruel/crazy due to their alien thinking (for the usual mortal races). They were also strong or nimble/fast depending on subspecies. This setting didn't get overrun by these things just because they were quite busy in their own semi-isolated realm fighting each other in various ways. The effects of their existence were still felt, a few times they warred neighbor lands, and their "bastards" (of other races like human or elf) were as powerful as compared a drow would be more powerful to a base elf in 3.5
So, a lot of people would cry already that this is an impossibly broken setting, but actually it was a fun and challenging one, it didn't have to be always these as enemies, they could just accidentally cause the reason of a campaign, or one may be scheming behind all the troubles your party went through from level 1 to 20 which just barely affected you and got you drawn closer to the creature. it is also an interesting campaign in such a world to swap sides and try to play as a group of these bastards who are feared in foreign lands, but tolerated as border forces by their great ancestors, even if looked upon similar to how usually humans see orcs.
perhaps clearer example: Nazguls in Lord of the Rings, they add a fear and flavor effect, in a LOTR RPG you seriously don't want to see them nerfed, but many people today would call the setting broken unless you replace the well known names with random ones (so they don't recognize the LOTR setting)
joriandrake wrote: btw, what I mentioned about the setting where classes are not balanced a single strong spellcaster would be more interesting and flavorful
I don't think a game is automatically "broken" just because it is unbalanced, a game where sorcerers are super strong or one whee knights have proper and strong influence and resources at hand could be way more interesting than a balanced game. Consider how people would think in such setting though, if a low level caster can kill off a dozen fighters it is likely they are looked upon similar to dragons, the casters may depending on world even be immortal (or just aging stops at a point)
One of the settings I played in for years had a special "alien" (abberant? mystical?) humanoid species which had the Power of Words, essentially you hearing it speak could melt your brain, or they could whisper and stun you, and really anything similar. Even dragons weren't match for them. They were usually considered evil/cruel/crazy due to their alien thinking (for the usual mortal races). They were also strong or nimble/fast depending on subspecies. This setting didn't get overrun by these things just because they were quite busy in their own semi-isolated realm fighting each other in various ways. The effects of their existence were still felt, a few times they warred neighbor lands, and their "bastards" (of other races like human or elf) were as powerful as compared a drow would be more powerful to a base elf in 3.5
So, a lot of people would cry already that this is an impossibly broken setting, but actually it was a fun and challenging one, it didn't have to be always these as enemies, they could just accidentally cause the reason of a campaign, or one may be scheming behind all the troubles your party went through from level 1 to 20 which just barely affected you and got you drawn closer to the creature. it is also an interesting campaign in such a world to swap sides and try to play as a group of these bastards who are feared in foreign lands, but tolerated as border forces by...
For story telling or roleplay imbalance is really cool but it is the antithesis of fun in a game.
Let's say you were playing street fighter and one of the characters had a move that instagibbed everyone else in the game and he was the only one who could do it. Story wise it would be awesome if someone managed to win against him by constantly keeping him reeling so he couldn't pull it off but after the 5th time playing the game and losing to him you'd probably smash the disc up and punch somebody in the face.
Now we're talking about an RPG which has elements of both and in an RP heavy setting it works but in a G or combat heavy setting it honestly sounds like a frustrating built in handicap mode for half the players at least to me.
@gnomersy - I did mention about the herbs available in a magical world... :P
Michael Radagast wrote: @gnomersy - I did mention about the herbs available in a magical world... :P Except the post is about taking half of the magic out of the world and that's the nice heal-y half ... =). Still it's possible but then you get to the point where people start asking why they can't make rage potions with craft alchemy and all that jazz and you have to make up a reason for that to not work but mystical healing poultices are well known by everyone ever and easily found.
Still it's an option but you need to provide a way for bigger healing as time goes on.
gnomersy wrote: Michael Radagast wrote: @gnomersy - I did mention about the herbs available in a magical world... :P Except the post is about taking half of the magic out of the world and that's the nice heal-y half ... =). Still it's possible but then you get to the point where people start asking why they can't make rage potions with craft alchemy and all that jazz and you have to make up a reason for that to not work but mystical healing poultices are well known by everyone ever and easily found.
Still it's an option but you need to provide a way for bigger healing as time goes on. The "Healing keeping/scaling up with the Damages" thing.
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