Can I take Extra Rogue Talent(feat) to Gain another Ninja Trick?
I would think not but i see people with Ninjas with this feat and it has cause my confusion.
Extra Rogue Talent
Through constant practice, you have learned how to perform a special trick.
Prerequisite: Rogue talent class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional rogue talent. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rogue talent.
Special: You can gain Extra Rogue Talent multiple times
Ninja is a rogue archtype.
But Ninjas don't have the Rogue Talent class feature.
So no.
Unless there's something that I'm missing.
Ninja's do get the rogue talent ninja trick though! I wonder if that would be enough to qualify for the feat as far as RAW goes or if the "rogue talent" you gain is still considered a "ninja trick".
Probably not.
In any case, there's really no reason why there isn't an Extra Ninja Trick feat and if this isn't for PFS, I'd bug my DM for it if I were you.
How about this use my Ninja trick to get a Rogue talent to get a Ninja trick.
I now have a Rogue Talent class feature and didn't give up a ninja trick =P
Virtually every class with a "gain something every other level" class ability has the option to take it in place of a normal feat.
Alchemists can spend feats on new Discoveries, Rogues can spend feats to gain extra Rogue talents, Barbarians can select extra Rage Powers, etc.
Ninjas have the ability to select any Rogue talent in place of a ninja trick, and while I'm not sure if there's an actual feat called "Extra Ninja Trick," it's completely in line with the mechanics of the other classes to let them select a Ninja Trick in place of a feat, and they can select a Rogue talent in place of a Ninja Trick anytime they want.
Or at least that's the way I'd interpret it. Otherwise it just seems like an arbitrary way of cutting Ninjas off from doing what most other classes can do.
I'd definitely allow it.
I'd also allow Poison Use and No Trace to be able to be swapped out for an archetype as if they were Trapfinding and Trap Sense, becuase both sets are about equal in power, and a lot of those rogue archetypes replacing those class feature seem just as fitting if not more so for ninja anyway.
Of course, as part of my massive fix rogues project, I plan to just merge the two together into one class anyway...
Ninja is a rogue archtype.
But Ninjas don't have the Rogue Talent class feature.
So no.
Unless there's something that I'm missing.
I have seen this said a few times, but looking at UC, I do not see the ninja being stated as a archtypes, an alternate sure, but that doesnt mean the same thing
I have seen this said a few times, but looking at UC, I do not see the ninja being stated as a archtypes, an alternate sure, but that doesnt mean the same thing
I never new there was a difference between the two words.
Most of the options presented on the following pages include a host of alternate class features. When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here. Each alternate class feature replaces a specific class feature from its parent class.
these really seem like the senanamus.
Ether way a player can not multiclass Rouge/Ninja. Which was what I ment.
the difference is that an archetype is changing a base class, the three new classes presented in the UC are as base classes, and you can indeed multiclass in any of the three with any other base class
Alright im going to allow this feat to carry over to a ninja trick. I feel like thats what has been said here and with the Trick-Talent-back to Trick i think it makes these feat Visible.
the difference is that an archetype is changing a base class, the three new classes presented in the UC are as base classes, and you can indeed multiclass in any of the three with any other base class
I don't believer you are right here but I don't have anything at the moment to back up my clam other then the rules I have already posted that seem pretty clear.
Which rules are you using to make such a judgement.
I'm sorry Munkir I wasn't responding to your post. I was responding to J3Carlisle.
the difference is that an archetype is changing a base class, the three new classes presented in the UC are as base classes, and you can indeed multiclass in any of the three with any other base class
Here is the answer
An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.
sorry that was my bad not yours
the difference is that an archetype is changing a base class, the three new classes presented in the UC are as base classes, and you can indeed multiclass in any of the three with any other base class
You're mistaken. Ninja is not a base class and as an alternate class for rogue cannot be multi-classed with rogue. An "alternate class" is the same as a normal archetype, but since it is such an expansive change to its base class (in this case the rogue) it gets a fuller write-up with table of abilities and so forth.
Proof:
The ninja, by contrast, is an alternate class version of the rogue
Regarding the opening question: by RAW a ninja cannot take the Extra Rogue Talent feat. (A rogue, however, can take Extra Rogue Talent feat multiple times and pick the "Ninja Trick" rogue talent each time. Essentially (and I think this is part of the balance between the classes) a rogue can have more ninja tricks than a ninja, but less ki and no master tricks.
Of course, any GM is allowed to simply decide that "Extra Ninja Trick" is a legitimate feat. And perhaps Paizo will eventually publish such a feat (and thus make it available for PFS).
Alright im going to allow this feat to carry over to a ninja trick. I feel like thats what has been said here and with the Trick-Talent-back to Trick i think it makes these feat Visible.
The Trick-Talent-Trick thing does not grant the Rogue Talent class ability, it simply gives the ninja a ninja trick (and if you only pick a rogue talent you simply have a rogue talent, you still don't have the Rogue Talent class ability).
To take Extra Rogue Talent the requirement is to have the Rogue Talent class ability.
I don't have a link to it, but I read before that there being no extra ninja trick feat was simply an oversight and will be included in a future book. But that does rather suck for PFS.
Thanks for all the comments
I don't have a link to it, but I read before that there being no extra ninja trick feat was simply an oversight and will be included in a future book. But that does rather suck for PFS.
Yep
Is the lack of an "Extra Ninja Trick" feat a deliberate design decision, or is it something that will be put into another book at some point?It's probably due to the fact that the ninja was designed at the same time as the majority of the feats for the same book were designed, and thus the designers of the feats didn't know what was going on with the ninja.
And then, when we got everything together to work it all up into a book, there was just no real room to add any more feats.
So no... not a deliberate design decision, but certainly a place we can expand upon.
As a GM you bring me stuff like this and you most likely get your way.
YES!
Just read the feat and talent descriptions.
Extra Rogue Talent:
Through constant practice, you have learned how to perform a special trick.
Prerequisite: Rogue talent class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional rogue talent. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rogue talent.
Special: You can gain Extra Rogue Talent multiple times.
Ninja Trick (Ex): A rogue with this talent can choose a trick from the ninja trick list (see pages 14-16). The rogue can choose but cannot use talents that require ki points, unless she has a ki pool. A rogue can pick this talent more than once.
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Prerequisite: Rogue talent class feature.
This is the part that makes this dicey by RAW. Ninjas don't technically have this, they have Ninja Tricks instead, even if they take the Rogue Talent trick, that's still just a Talent, not the Class Feature.
I'd still allow it, but there is room for doubt RAW.
No, you cannot take it to gain ninja tricks as a ninja.
However, you could multiclass with archaeologist for 4 levels, then you can take it and select your ninja tricks :-)
doesn't that mean that a human ninja can take the 1/6 rogue trick favored class option from APG?An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save
that a character who takes a level in an alternate class
can never take a level in its associated class
Should work, yes :-)
Oops! My bad.
I thought you wanted to take another ninja trick for a rogue.
If you want to take another ninja trick for your ninja by using Extra Rogue Talent, then I'd agree with Sangalor.