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Got a couple questions about Summoner Archetypes, the first is a rules questions the second is an opinion question.
FIRST
the "First Worlder" Archetypes replaces the Summon Monster ability, and under the new ability Summon Natures Ally it seems to leave out the whole "he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned" restriction. Is this an oversight? A mistype on PFSRD? or Intentional?
In my personal opinion I think its intentional as both the First Worlders Eidolon AND his Summons are weaker so it would make sense to allow him to use both, but I'm not here for MY opinion I'm here to see if there was an official source on this or if I just misread the ability.
SECOND
The other archetype I was interested in was the Master Summoner. The problem with the Master Summoner is that I CANNOT find a reason to use his lesser eidolon. It just doesn't seem worth it... And I won't use the eidolon, it doesn't hurt me that much, my problem is that with the exception of the two abilities replaced by Master Summoner every single class ability is focused on the Eidolon. Would it be unfair to ask to replace those abilities with something... useful to me? (or if you know of a legal way to replace these abilities, please tell me)
The Master Summoner's eidolon is useful for scouting and using skills. Don't use it in combat.
The master Summoner is possibly the strongest archetype in the game. They really don't need other class abilities.
I think you might be right about the first worlder.
I have been thinking about redoing the master summoner to be less marginalizing and replace those eidolon abilities...
Master Summoner Eidolon has writen all over it: invest into as many +8 skill bonus evolutions and Intelligence and make it into expert skill monkey/mount. In fact I am thinking about new cerebrant eidolon base form/template that would screw it's physical abilities in exchange for hefty Intelligence bonus (like, -4 to Strength and Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +6 to Intelligence and +2 to Wisdom and/or Charisma).
Also, Tiny sized eidolons to make summoner with Morte-like companion.
Can you make tiny sized ones? I thought it was small only.
Drejk pretty much nailed it with skill monkey/mount. A small sized master summoner can ride their eidolon without needing to boost it to a larger size category. It's what the one among my players does.
...That is to say, it's what she does when she uses her Eidolon at all. Most of the time, summons are the way to go.
Can you make tiny sized ones? I thought it was small only.
Not yet. It's an option I would like to see. And probably will add someday.
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Thanks for the feedback, but I'm not asking how to make the eidolon useful.
I plan on asking my GM if I can outright replace the eidolon for something that benefits me (more than a skill monkey/mount I will never use)
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Some ideas I've played with were
Lesser Eidolon: perhaps instead of having a lesser eidolon you can extend the time of a "Summon Monster" spell to 10 min/level, but similar to the end cap conjuration wizard only one summon monster can be effected by this at a time. As an end cap make it identical to the conjuration wizard and make it permanent. (I haven't crunched it myself but I'm told a level 17 eidolon is more powerful than the Summon Monster IX abilities)
Makers call works on things summoned with "Summon Monster" (its obviously an improvement, so maybe limit it per day)
Transposition also works on "Summoned Monster" (even larger improvement so again limit it per day or otherwise put another restriction on it)
Aspect: could technically still use this but if I replace the eidolon it becomes useless, if eidolon is replaced perhaps put a bonus feat slot here?
Greater Shield Ally: Instead of this perhaps and upgrade to "Augment Summoning" Increasing the gains from +4 to +6 or +8
Life Bond: can choose to actively desummon monsters for half their remaining HP as healing. EXAMPLE a Dire Croc with 138 current hp when desummoned would heal the Summoner 69 hp.
Merge Form: not sure on this one
Greater Aspect: another bonus feat?
Twin Eidolon: Twin Summons: one summon per day can summon double same creatures instead of the normal amount, or if used on a lesser summon doubles the amount (so 1 becomes 2, 1d3 becomes 2d3 and 1d4+1 becomes 2d4+2)
Anything you'd do to replace Eidolon-specific abilities is an improvement ;)
Master Summoner, even without an eidolon at all, is still stupid strong. I'm not really sure the class needs to be given anything else to boost it.
Although I definitely agree that having a bunch of class abilities that affect something that's not that useful is a bit silly.
Got a couple questions about Summoner Archetypes, the first is a rules questions the second is an opinion question.
FIRST
the "First Worlder" Archetypes replaces the Summon Monster ability, and under the new ability Summon Natures Ally it seems to leave out the whole "he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned" restriction. Is this an oversight? A mistype on PFSRD? or Intentional?
In my personal opinion I think its intentional as both the First Worlders Eidolon AND his Summons are weaker so it would make sense to allow him to use both, but I'm not here for MY opinion I'm here to see if there was an official source on this or if I just misread the ability.
SECOND
The other archetype I was interested in was the Master Summoner. The problem with the Master Summoner is that I CANNOT find a reason to use his lesser eidolon. It just doesn't seem worth it... And I won't use the eidolon, it doesn't hurt me that much, my problem is that with the exception of the two abilities replaced by Master Summoner every single class ability is focused on the Eidolon. Would it be unfair to ask to replace those abilities with something... useful to me? (or if you know of a legal way to replace these abilities, please tell me)
did not catch that bout 1st worlder. playing one in society. need look into it more. thanks
The "First Worlder" Archetypes replaces the Summon Monster ability, and under the new ability Summon Natures Ally it seems to leave out the whole "he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned" restriction. Is this an oversight? A mistype on PFSRD? or Intentional?
In my personal opinion I think its intentional as both the First Worlders Eidolon AND his Summons are weaker so it would make sense to allow him to use both, but I'm not here for MY opinion I'm here to see if there was an official source on this or if I just misread the ability.
Did this ever get resolved? To me as well it seems a fair balancing-issue for the class.
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Got a couple questions about Summoner Archetypes, the first is a rules questions the second is an opinion question.
FIRST
the "First Worlder" Archetypes replaces the Summon Monster ability, and under the new ability Summon Natures Ally it seems to leave out the whole "he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned" restriction. Is this an oversight? A mistype on PFSRD? or Intentional?
Note this last part of the entry
This otherwise works like and replaces the eidolon ability of a normal summoner.
Anything that's not addressed as changed with the eidolon power works as the standard entry. So in other words since it's not addressed, the Eidolon/Summons exclusion is still in force.
While the First Worlder's Eidolon isn't the melee monster a standard eidolon would be, note that unlike most other variants that impact the eidolon, she still has her full evolution pool which is sufficient to make a fully functional caster-based eidolon. Also keep note that if the summoner is pulling watch duty outdoors, low-light vision has a farther spotting range than darkvision.
Got a couple questions about Summoner Archetypes, the first is a rules questions the second is an opinion question.
FIRST
the "First Worlder" Archetypes replaces the Summon Monster ability, and under the new ability Summon Natures Ally it seems to leave out the whole "he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned" restriction. Is this an oversight? A mistype on PFSRD? or Intentional?
In my personal opinion I think its intentional as both the First Worlders Eidolon AND his Summons are weaker so it would make sense to allow him to use both, but I'm not here for MY opinion I'm here to see if there was an official source on this or if I just misread the ability.
SECOND
The other archetype I was interested in was the Master Summoner. The problem with the Master Summoner is that I CANNOT find a reason to use his lesser eidolon. It just doesn't seem worth it... And I won't use the eidolon, it doesn't hurt me that much, my problem is that with the exception of the two abilities replaced by Master Summoner every single class ability is focused on the Eidolon. Would it be unfair to ask to replace those abilities with something... useful to me? (or if you know of a legal way to replace these abilities, please tell me)
just throwing this out there - in addition to replacing our party's need for a rogue with Skilled evolutions in Stealth, Perception and Disable Device as well as the ability to fly and climb, my eddy (I'm a Master Summoner) also has the Skilled evolution in Use Magic Device. Anytime combat looks fierce he and I BOTH bust out wands and rain some terror down over the tops of my summoned monsters.
One tiny thing you might suggest to your GM as a house rule - We've adjusted Augmented Summoning so that it grants +4 Dex and +4 Constitution (rather than Strength/Constitution) to any creature that has Weapon Finnesse as a feat. Makes more sense in our minds, since your augment should benefit what the creature.