you can't mechanicly alter an existing weapon to masterwork.
its just nowhere in the rules although I would love a houserulle on this if I would pickup the weapons new it wouldnt change alot other than the roleplay element.
as you all know the earthbreaker and klar are heirlooms so no way Borris is gonna give em up.
FYI.
The way that I look at Masterwork Transformation is that the gold pieces are spent on special unguents and oils that are applied to the armor / shield / weapon / item and when the spell is cast, they "transform" the item into a masterwork item by being absorbed into it.
So, if Redona wishes to memorize and cast the spell for free, and that is up to her, all that is needed is 300 gp of unguents for the earthbreaker, and 450 gp of unguents (shield & weapon) for the klar.
Oh, and they oils / unguents are available for purchase. These are dwarves after all!
-- david
Folks,
There are still several "competing" theories on what to do with the 3500 gp reward.
1) split it evenly,
2) buy party item(s) (bag of holding / handy haversack, wand of clw, etc.)
I'll leave this thread and the game play thread open till Tuesday morning, or earlier if a clear consensus emerges. Then I will post something.
Don't forget that the "+1 items" are after you rescue the miners and bring them back.
-- david
Don't forget that the "+1 items" are after you rescue the miners and bring them back.
Ah, I totally misunderstood that. The way I read the post was they were offered "as incentive" which meant they were going to give them now to encourage us to go back. (As I understand it, you usually get an an "incentive" before, as opposed to "reward" which is what you get _after_ accomplishing something.)
Well, that's disappointing. My suggestion of what to do with the 3500 was assuming we were also getting the gear upgrade. We really do need something to carry our stuff in, especially if we're gonna get some of that goblin-looted gear out of there, but we also more immediately need some magic weapons and armor, given the challenges we potentially face, and 3,500 could get us one of our frontliners a +1 weapon and someone else +1 armor.
So now I have no clue what to do.
thats the reason I think the 1500g is to much to spend on a haversack right now.
if we would be getting the +1 gear now then I wouldn't be complaining about it :-)
its only +1 to hit on both my weapons but its all the 1's that add up :-)
all I need is my share and I got enough to get the materials for masterwork transformation(both earthbreaker and klar) if Redona wants to memorize it for me then that should be it! :-)
Redona would you be willing to memorize Masterwork Transformation twice for me today?
@Kreig;
Ok, this is how I am going to play it, at least for now, ie. it may get "refined" later.
1) You have to purchase the "master component", like smoke arrow, tanglefoot arrows, alchemist fire flask, and in the case of the "wolf" trap a spring mechanism (reusable 25gp, non-reusable 10gp).
2) You have to purchase "generic trap components", aka wire for trips, or "holders" for the arrows, flasks, other generic stuff (not needed to be detailed).
3) You have to purchase the "trap tools", aka your artisan tools.
For 1) normal cost, 2) 10gp x Trap CR (use first link to figure out CR), and 3) you have the price already.
Also, to Craft the Trap so it is ready to be setup with your "Quick Trapsmith" feat, it will take you 4 hours for CR 1-5 and the Craft DC is 10+CR or you waste the "master component", and you have to pack carefully. It will take you 1 full round action to carefully remove it from your pack, and 1 full round of Quick Trapsmith to set it in place.
-- david
Let me know what you think. Like I posted earlier, crafting costs and DCs are really dumb, and I want this to work reasonably with cheapening it too much.
Don't forget that the "+1 items" are after you rescue the miners and bring them back.Ah, I totally misunderstood that. The way I read the post was they were offered "as incentive" which meant they were going to give them now to encourage us to go back. (As I understand it, you usually get an an "incentive" before, as opposed to "reward" which is what you get _after_ accomplishing something.)
Ah, yes, I see. I was not clear on that point. I should have phrased the offer as "As an incentive to take the mission, when you bring back our miners we will give you enchanted xxxx as a reward."
-- david
@ Papa - Thanks! The rules are pretty clear and fair. Assuming the team is okay with it, can I use one of the Alchemical Flasks in the trove for the trap?
@ Group - Looks like we have 2 in the inventory, can I use one for the trap?
@Gang - Given the clarification about when we get dwarven magical goodness, perhaps we should wait on buying the Haversack.
Views on this?
@DM Papa - As much as I don't like to say it - do any of the dwarves want a well-trained dog? And speaking of training - what should my approach be to training my cat (who I still need to post an alias for)?
@All,
I have been doing some additional thinking(*) and as I made the goof in my phrasing I've changed my mind. Also, I looked at the adventure book in the box set more closely, so I am going to do the following:
The +1 items will be given now, as a true incentive.
You can figure out what to do with the 3,500 gp with the +1 items in place.
Let me know what each of you wish to have;
-- david
(*) very dangerous thing for a DM to do.....
Well that changes things.
I had been thinking of a +1 chain shirt for Rikar. Anyone have an improvement to that notion?
@Gang - Given the clarification about when we get dwarven magical goodness, perhaps we should wait on buying the Haversack.
Views on this?
@DM Papa - As much as I don't like to say it - do any of the dwarves want a well-trained dog? And speaking of training - what should my approach be to training my cat (who I still need to post an alias for)?
@Rikar - For reasons that I won't go into now, consider the cat as Trained for Combat with the two trick attack option. HERE
Goma will be taken care of when you guys leave the room.
@All - When you decide to go shopping to spend your 3500 gp, when you leave the room someone will come to you and speak.
-- david
@DM - I know how the skill works, that's why I asked - because it takes some time, that we don't have. But if he's pre-trained, for the most part, that works great. I can re-train or add a trick as levels allow.
Maybe one day I'll do a speak with animals and hear his story.
Okay, getting way too active here.
@Papa - I think I've got my list all set up, taking into account your latest round of generosity...
+1 Chain Shirt Armor
2 Tangleshot Arrows * 40gp
2 Smoke Arrows * 20gp
20 Regular Arrows 1gp
1 Wolf Trap (reusable) 25gp
2 Alchemist Fire (flask) 50gp
Trap Components 50gp (10xCR 5)
1 Dwarven Maulaxe 25gp
1 Set Artisan's Tools (Mwk) 55gp
-------------------------------------------------------
Total Gold 266
Leaves 317gp for the group item!
Feature / CR Modifier
Perception DC 20 / ---- (edit)
Disable Device DC 20 / ----
Reflex Save DC 20 / ----
Attack Bonus +10 / ----
Average Damage (20)/ +2 (+1 per 10 points) (edit)
--------------------------------------------------------
CR 2
* These arrows are just for shooting!
Let me know if I've got this nailed down. If you want to PM on this, feel free. I think I'm clogging up the boards! If all looks correct, I'll RP my "A-Team" construction montage.
@Kreig
Your Quick Trapsmith feat allows traps up to half your level
-- david
Yeah, that wording worried me a mite also.
We're certainly going to look good in our matching dwarven chain shirts as we scout ahead. No wonder we both thought of it!
Yeah, that wording worried me a mite also.
Post up on game thread... Not to worry... heh
-- david
"Mrrrreeeoowwwrrr."
Looks around sleepily for a moment, butts head once against Rikar's leg, goes back to sleep.
Okay, presuming we're not going to buy the Haversack, the treasure sheet tells me that each of us can add 677.5 gp to our total.
I'll wait to see if there are any objections to handing out this gold, and if not I'll record the disbursement on the sheet.
That is mighty kind of you, DM Papa.
Well, if we are going to get the +1 gear after all, and that was Borris's main concern about the spending of the 3,500 -- are we cool with buying the haversack with it now?
I think whatever's left over would be enough for much of the other stuff thrown in.
Sorry for the back and forth, but things changed (from my perspective) and then changed again. I'm also cool with getting the 6 way split and then people can donate whatever they like.
If y'all want me to stop being so wishy washy and shut up, I can do that too.
Rikar, does your split include your prior tally of 90-something gp? 'Cause I already added that to my character sheet.
Kreig, Rikar and Josef - +1 chain shirt
Josef - composite longbow +4 strength - not available - will be ready in one weeks time.
Redona ?
Misha ?
Borris ?
How are you spending the 3,500 gp?
-- david
Misha - you're right, since we're getting some good magic items now, it makes sense to go ahead with your initial suggestion of buying the Haversack. I made my last post in a bit of a rush, and didn't stop to consider that.
My split of 677.5 included the 94.2 that we had each earned before the dwarven reward - so you should just add 583.3 to Misha's gold total, if you already added that earlier amount (i.e., the 94.2).
I hate to complicate matters further, but the original intent of the spreadsheet I created was to track whether there was a fair distribution of gold and magic items, and we haven't really been using it that way. Rikar has claimed about 30% of the magic item value, so by rights should get a lesser share of the 3500 gp - which would allow someone like Borris to have a bit more to spend on his MW transformation efforts.
If folks want to pursue this approach, I can mess around with the spreadsheet some to accomodate it, or we can eyeball it, or we can just try to allocate magic items fairly over time and divvy the gold equally, but that requires taking a longer view.
I'm fine with buying a handy haversack but stil would like to know if the dwarves would grant me an upgrade from my Breastplate to a +1 Full plate?
Considering the cost diffrence from half plate to full plate I think it is reasonable no?
so reformulated: Can I upgrade my +1 Breastplate to a +1 Full plate with the Dwarven offer?
I would lose +1 dex bonus but stil gain +2 AC
If not I would like my Klar to be enchanted to +1 and wil be using all the rest of my gold to do MWK transf. on my Earthbreaker
about the haversack just buy it and split the rest of the loot it's obvious that i'm the only one to be a problem here :-) and I'm not willing to be a problem :-)
DM Papa, Misha wants a chain shirt as well.
Borris, I would suggest going with a +1 weapon, especially since we are at some point probably going to fight a fiend, which usually have DR/magic, and you are a front liner. You're also getting effectively better GP value out of it. Just my 2 cents.
about the haversack just buy it and split the rest of the loot it's obvious that i'm the only one to be a problem here :-) and I'm not willing to be a problem :-)
No worries, it's just a complex matter and this is the kind of thing that's easier to negotiate over at an actual table than posting.
If we can do that I see:
3,500
- 2,000 for the haversack
- 500 for the composite bow
- 3 1st level spell scrolls for Josef
- 266 for Krieg's kit
- 450 for masterworking one of Borris's weapons
- 4 for 40 crossbow bolts
---------------------------------------------------
205 communal gp left
As I've seen NO suggestions for what else to get, I'd suggest several 1st level potions, or I could throw in my own gold to help get us a 2nd level potion (lesser restore is good), or a bucket of alchemist's fire, or holy water. And possibly more crossbow bolts.
Misha, I honestly don't know what to get beyond what you've decided on. I got myself more crossbow bolts and added a chain shirt. The Haversack is about the only thing I would have suggested cause my previous games have never been as detailed...
As for Borris, I've prepared Mwk transformation so it can be done. From what I'm reading on the PRD though it should only take you 300gp to make your weapon masterwork, not 450.
Anyway, if I need to buy anything else let me know. I've spent the gold for 40 more bolts to miss things with (maybe it'll distract them enough for everyone else to smash em?)
If i could get an upgrade for my armor to full plate I would still do it I like to stay alive in the front !! :-) and dont forget i got Smite evil to bypass DR (only one a day tho)
and MWK for shield is 450 as both shield and weapon part needs to be made MWK. and for the earthbreaker its 300. but there isn't enough gold for both.
so reformulated: Can I upgrade my +1 Breastplate to a +1 Full plate with the Dwarven offer?
If not I would like my Klar to be enchanted to +1 and wil be using all the rest of my gold to do MWK transf. on my Earthbreaker
about the haversack just buy it and split the rest of the loot it's obvious that i'm the only one to be a problem here :-) and I'm not willing to be a problem :-)
Sorry no. The Breastplate cannot be upgraded to Full Plate.
Which part of the Klar to you want to be upgraded to +1, the blade or shield portion?
-- david
Also, if I am coming off as pushy or trying to dominate this discussion, please let me know. I am trying to be helpful and make sure we get stuff we need. Like Borris, I am not trying to be a trouble maker. But I also know when I have an opinion, I come on strong with it. :)
Kreig, Rikar and Josef - +1 chain shirt
Josef - composite longbow +4 strength - not available - will be ready in one weeks time.
Redona ?
Misha ?
Borris ?How are you spending the 3,500 gp?
-- david
Redona - ? (armor, I assume, so +1 Breastplate (best you can get!) or ?)
Misha - +1 chain shirtBorris - +1 klar (shield or weapon?)
Borris mwk earthbreaker - 300gp (only the Klar would cost more because it is both weapon and shield).
-- david
3,500
- 2,000 for the haversack
- 500 for the composite bow
- 3 1st level spell scrolls for Josef
- 266 for Krieg's kit
- 450 for masterworking one of Borris's weapons
- 4 for 40 crossbow bolts
---------------------------------------------------
205 communal gp left...I'd suggest several 1st level potions, or I could throw in my own gold to help get us a 2nd level potion (lesser restore is good), or a bucket of alchemist's fire, or holy water. And possibly more crossbow bolts.
This sounds like a good, sensible approach. We won't actually have to spend money on Josef's bow until we come back, I believe, so that frees up a bit more money, as long as we commit to him having the money available from our next treasure haul.
And I don't think you're being pushy, Misha - you came up with a good idea initially, and you're keeping us on track on spending our gold, so we can get back to some adventuring.
@Josef - in the meantime, would you like to carry Rikar's bow, which has a max +2 Str bonus? If you're thinking of hanging back and casting spells and firing arrows, it will get more use in your hands than mine.
yup it was the breastplate. just upgrading what I have.
Okay, I say we give the thumbs-up to Misha's proposed budget and plan and move on.
All in favor?
"Aye!"
I'll have a post tomorrow (Saturday) morning moving it along. Just to make sure that I am in sync with everyone else,
- You got to the dwarven stronghold late evening exhausted, drank a little and went to bed.
- Slept and got up. Spent the day shopping, resting, etc. Redona cast spell for Borris.
- Slept a second night and get up ready to go back to the mountain.
Right???
-- david
Redona - +1 Breastplate
Borris - Assuming weapon portion if I don't read differently.
Script looks good, Papa.
Also, I'm good with the Haversack!
Okay, I say we give the thumbs-up to Misha's proposed budget and plan and move on.All in favor?
"Aye!"
Good by me, Rikar
Also, I'm good with the Haversack!
Bearing the discussion of the bow in mind, noting that Redona has already mentioned she noted the purchase of bolts for herself, then can we take the following purchases as approved:
Handy Haversack: 2,000 gp
Scroll of ant haul: 25 gp
Scroll of enlarge person: 25 gp
Scroll of shield: 25 gp
Krieg's assorted requested gear: 266 gp
Making Borris's earthbreaker and shield portion of his klar masterwork: 450 gp
TOTAL SPENT SO FAR: 2,791 gp
TOTAL LEFT OF GIFT: 709
---------------------------------------------
We can split up the rest (118 gp, 1 sp, and 7 cp each).
If the rest is split up I'll probably purchase some holy water and acid flasks and a potion of cure light wounds for myself.
DRB, your summary sounds right to me. After shopping, Misha will probably ask around more about the area and Mount Moru. To save time, here's a gather information check:
If we tossed in another 41 gp to what's left from the gift, we could get a wand of CLW, which would be a gooooood thing to have. Heck, Rikar would spring for the 41 gp himself, if no one objects to spending the rest of the reward on that.
If we tossed in another 41 gp to what's left from the gift, we could get a wand of CLW, which would be a gooooood thing to have. Heck, Rikar would spring for the 41 gp himself, if no one objects to spending the rest of the reward on that.
I'd definitely be down with that. Both Redona and Misha could use it (if it's technically clerical and Misha couldn't spell trigger it, should could always try UMD). I'd also throw in some gold from my own fund for that, go halvesies?
go halvesies?
Perfect. And Rikar can use the wand also, now that he's fourth level and has maaaaaagic. One day he'd like a wand of lead blades, because it will make him very effective at killing things. But for now, he can cast it himself 1x/day, and that'll do.
I thought both weapon and shield got to get upgraded at the same time
:-)
If I'm not making it to much of a problem I'll upgrade my Earthbreaker to +1 and masterwork transform my Klar to MWk (i'll chip in the 150g myself by selling my old BP and using my last own 50g.)
So i would have a +1 Earthbreaker and a Mwk Klar (both weapon and Shield part)
if thats ok with the GM
I'm all for the wand of CLW I can use it also so no arguments there!
Good on the wand also.
I thought both weapon and shield got to get upgraded at the same time
:-)If I'm not making it to much of a problem I'll upgrade my Earthbreaker to +1 and masterwork transform my Klar to MWk (i'll chip in the 150g myself by selling my old BP and using my last own 50g.)
So i would have a +1 Earthbreaker and a Mwk Klar (both weapon and Shield part)
if thats ok with the GM
Ok with me, +1 Earthbreaker & mwk Klar (both parts) it is.
I thought so also, but then read the text of Masterwork Transformation here. Note the 2nd paragraph where it talks about spiked shield needing two spells cast. Same thing for klar.
-- david
Both Redona and Misha can use the CLW wand, and in 2 more levels Borris also.
-- david
Great so I got a Mwk Klar a +1 Earthbreaker and a +1 Breastplate!!