I have played pathfinder 1e quite a bit but 2e is a little confusing for me plus I would like some creative advice on a good champion build. I tried AI and almost hung myself from the contradictions and stupidity so lets go back to humans because you rock more.
I have clear I want to help with melee and front line and we only have an alchemist in group so I need to be able to help with healing. I was looking at the following:
Redeemer, Field Medic, Glimpse of Redemption and Sarenrae as Diety. Again very new at building a pathfinder 2e char and so any help and creativity would be appreciative. Also starting this friday so on a timetable. Thanks in advance community :)
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Battle Medicine is nice, but Champion is not the best class for it. You have Lay on Hands, a strong healing focus spell that does not need a free hand, and freeing that hand is a big opportunity cost for a Champion.
The basic Champion Redeemer would be using a shield. Defensive Advance is an excellent action compression feat at lvl 1, it allows you to move, strike and raise your shield in 2 actions - leaving a third for another strike, stride or something else, like lay on hands.
The main reason to use a shield is to let your enemy decide between trying to hit you - difficult with +2 AC and shield block - or hitting somebody else, triggering your Glimpse of Redemption.
Using a Shield Augmentation you can capitalize on your high strength to use maneuvers (Trip, Disarm) - only grapple is out.
The other "main" build would be a Paladin (Justice Champion) with a 2h weapon, using Retributive Strike to protect his companions together with dealing out damage. More offense, less defense.
Your Deity is mainly a "flavor" choice, but there is the Deity's Domain feat that gives you access to one of the domain spells. An attack spell is usually not your strongest choice (your DC won't be the best), but in any case the feat will give you another focus point to use with Lay on Hands.
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Dr. Frank Funkelstein is correct about Battle Medicine: you don't have the free hand to use it. Medicine itself as a skill can be used for Treat Wounds (and Treat Poison/Disease) in downtime if you want, but it's not a good in-combat option for you as you have Lay on Hands and no free hands. Even in downtime you can recover with Lay on Hands by refocusing, so Medicine isn't necessary, but it is thematic if your deity is Sarenrae (and is a useful skill).
Your Alchemist might want Battle Medicine though, especially if they're a Bomber.
A Shield is a great choice for you because it gives you more AC and the ability to block damage on yourself with Shield Block. It also gives you the ability to get the excellent Shield of Reckoning feat. In a nutshell, this lets you use your shield block and Glimpse of Redemption on an ally, at the same time. This blocks absurd amounts of damage, and more damage blocked means less damage to heal. Stand next to your melee buddy and they're virtually unkillable.
I'm a GM, ask me how I know. :D
Intimidation is also a good skill for Champions because you can use it in combat for Demoralize, which is a 1 action debuff on enemies. By no means necessary since you're already using an action to raise your shield, but something to consider.
Athletics is a good skill for you because you have high STR and it comes up a lot in skill challenges.
Guys thanks so much. So I may go Defensive advance then but the problem I have is I have no clue who the alchemist is and we can't talk so who know what he is going to build. I don't think it will be BM though because my GM said we barely have any healing so I may need to cover that aspect as much as possible without going cleric or Oracle. If anyone has any ideas let me know.
Also how for you guys that love building out characters what would a Champion look like lvl 1-5
Also how for you guys that love building out characters what would a Champion look like lvl 1-5
Here is a not optimized example.
Perception +9 (+2 initiative);
Languages None selected
Skills Acrobatics +0, Athletics +13, Crafting +11, Diplomacy +9, Intimidation +9, Lore: Warfare +8, Medicine +9, Religion +9
Str +4, Dex +0, Con +3, Int +1, Wis +2, Cha +2
Items Full Plate, Steel Shield (Hardness 5, HP 20, BT 10)
AC 23 (25 with shield raised); Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +11
HP 73
Shield Block
Glimpse of Redemption
Speed 25 feet
Melee +1 Striking Warhammer +14 (Magical, Shove), Damage 2d8+4 B
Defensive Advance
Focus Spells (2 points) Lay on Hands
Fire Ray
Additional Feats Aura of Courage, Deity's Domain, Fleet, Incredible Initiative, Intimidating Glare, Quick Jump, Quick Repair, Robust Health, Weight of Guilt
Additional Specials Anathema, Blessing of the Devoted (Blessed Armament), Champion's Aura, Deific Weapon, Deity Skill, Deity and Cause (Redemption Cause (Holy)), Deity's Domain (Fire), Devotion Spells (Lay on Hands), Holy Aura, Sanctification
So this is a pretty basic Champion without free archetype that uses only standard options. As I said, it's not optimized. But here's why I made some of the picks I did:
1. Defensive Advance is 3 actions worth of stuff for 2 actions, and these are all things you want to do (stride, raise shield, strike). This is great.
2. Weight of Guilt gives a second option on Glimpse of Redemption that massively messes up spellcasters. Someone casting a harmful spell on your ally in your aura? Ruin their day.
3. I picked up Crafting so you can repair your own shield in case no one else can. If this is covered in the party, you don't need it.
4. Deity's Domain gets you a second focus point, which means 2 Lay on Hands per combat. Lay on Hands is 18 healing per use at level 5, so 36 healing per encounter typically. I picked Fire because Fire Ray gives you a ranged option if you need it, but it won't be great for you. Sarenrae has 4 options for focus spells from this, if you like another domain's option better than go for it.
5. Quick Jump gives you a mobility option if you need to get over a gap or difficult terrain, and you're good at it. By no means necessary if you like something else better.
6. Robust Health massively boosts the value of Battle Medicine if someone else in the party has it, both by giving you more HP but also by reducing the cooldown (from 1 day to 1 hour). If no one has Battle Medicine, pick something else.
7. I picked Blessed Armament because getting a free rune on your weapon is neat and some of the options are good (Vitalizing in an Undead heavy campaign) or fun (Shifting lets you change your weapon into other forms to get different damage types). I'm a fan of shifting because its fun and also sometimes damage type can matter a lot. If you prefer to buff up your shield instead, take the shield option.
8. Aura of Courage because getting rid of fear is helpful as it comes up a lot. This is also a good level for an archetype if you want one.
9. Quick Repair lets you repair your shield MUCH faster. This matters when you get Sturdy Shields with a lot of HP because you don't want to take an hour repairing it.
10. I didn't care about any ancestry feats at level 5 and Incredible Initiative helps you go first, which lets you protect your allies sooner.
I went with a warhammer for a weapon because Bludgeoning damage is a good type, but you can take anything and be fine. You want +1 Striking. You also want a Sturdy Shield as soon as you can get it, and then items like a Lifting Belt and Crafter's Eyepiece once you can afford them. Talk to your GM about your starting wealth, but if its the standard table you can start with the +1 striking weapon as your level 4 item. (You'll want to get a Sturdy Shield and +1 Armor rune ASAP, and probably a Lifting Belt.)
So that's an example. There are lots of ways to do a character like this that work, so don't feel locked into anything I picked. This isn't even optimized. :)
Guys thanks so much. So I may go Defensive advance then but the problem I have is I have no clue who the alchemist is and we can't talk so who know what he is going to build. I don't think it will be BM though because my GM said we barely have any healing so I may need to cover that aspect as much as possible without going cleric or Oracle. If anyone has any ideas let me know.
The healer in my Abomination Vaults campaign is a Bomber Alchemist with Battle Medicine. If you take Medic Dedication this works, though it's no Cleric. But it's surprisingly mobile: Quick Bomber means that getting and throwing bombs is 1 action, and Doctors Visitation from Medic Archetype means Move + Battle Medicine is 1 action, so they can move, heal, and chuck two bombs without any issue.
Ciurigeon Alchemist becomes a strong healer at level 13, but IMO it's not great at low level.
That group also has other defenses though, so they get by with that. Like any group with a Champion needs less healing than a group without one because Champion can simply stop damage from happening.
The way PF2 works, damage prevention and healing are two sides of the same coin, and if you get more from one side you can have less of the other. Healing can also come from a wide variety of sources. Clerics are very good at it, but they're far from the only way to get in-combat healing.
Making your characters in a vacuum from the rest of your party actually makes PF2 harder than talking to each other simply because you can't coordinate any of this and have to kind of guess at what the party can actually do.
So long as your shield is a buckler, you have the hand free needed for battle medicine, drinking some elixer round 1, tripping or whatever else.
Since your party is one big question mark, and since I'm not sure if you're playing 01-05 or only starting at 05, here's a sample build
Ancestry: Human
Heritage: Aiuvarin
Background: Laborer
Stats: +4/+0/+2/+0/+2/+1
01: nimble elf, defensive advance
02: dual weapon warrior dedication
03: toughness
04: deity domain
05: general training (fleet)
Basic opener will be to drink an elixer from your alch and defensive advance in to raise shield and strike before following up with double slices with your main weapon and whatever you attach to your shield and raising your shield as a 3rd action. As stated, the open hand from using a buckler also enables trips, grapples, battle medicine, whatever.
Nimble elf and fleet increase your engagement range. Deity domain can be anything, you just want an extra focus point for lay on hands.
Buy a pair of weapon siphons and attach them to your weapon and shield and stock them with cheap bombs to push your damage a little higher.
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Note: Defensive Advance is a good 1st level feat, for the reasons specified above. But you should also consider Nimble Reprisal.
The second paragraph describing the feat contains the part I find most usefull. "You can also make melee Strikes against enemies a bit farther away. If the enemy that triggered your reaction is outside your reach but is within 5 feet of your reach, as part of your reaction you can Step to put the enemy in your reach before making a melee Retributive Strike."
Being able to move 5' towards the foe triggering the Retributive Strike can be very helpfull.
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My first PF2 PC is a Justice Champion of Torag. I tried to make him the fastest Heavy Armor wearing PC I could build.
So, he is an Elf Adopted by Dwarves for Unencumbered Iron.
And I wanted to get Sudden Charge, so I went MC Barbarian with the Giant instinct for good damage.
Lots of fun to play, especially when an enemy tries to flee.
Wielding a Fortress shield, he still has a Speed of 45 at level 10. And all the feats that help to Jump too. I really should calculate his basic High Jump and Long Jump distance one day.
Ranged Reprisal ofc. And going for a Shifting effect on his Returning trident so that he can enter combat wielding his deity's favored weapon and still adapt to situations through damage type, maneuvers weapon traits and throwing as needed.
Note: Defensive Advance is a good 1st level feat, for the reasons specified above. But you should also consider Nimble Reprisal.
The second paragraph describing the feat contains the part I find most usefull. "You can also make melee Strikes against enemies a bit farther away. If the enemy that triggered your reaction is outside your reach but is within 5 feet of your reach, as part of your reaction you can Step to put the enemy in your reach before making a melee Retributive Strike."
Being able to move 5' towards the foe triggering the Retributive Strike can be very helpfull.
OP mentioned Glimpse of Redemption, so Nimble Reprisal isn't valid in that case.
If they take Retributive Strike instead, then absolutely Nimble Reprisal is great.
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I love this forum. You guys come up with some crazy interesting ideas. Thanks so much. Sorry I must have mistyped on the party thing. I don't know what most of the part is going to be yet. I do know we have an alchemist and some sort of full caster. People are still deciding :) Thanks so much for all the ideas you all.
I did take Glimpse of Redemption