| Unicore |
It is not uncommon for people to disparage the feats of the Wizard class as not being impactful enough. While I think there are a handful of Wizard feats that fall very flat of the fantasy they were written to provide, and I think more well designed feats are always appreciated for any class, I think the Wizard delivers powerful, impactful feats at every level, with many levels saddled with multiple feats that almost any Wizard is better for having than not. What is true is that many of the wizard’s feats are not super flashy (although a growing number definitely are), and don’t necessarily jump out with an obvious plan for how to use them.
For example: level 1 Wizard feats may feel a bit generic to players looking for character defining options (as in having this feat gives the Wizard their whole identity, right from level 1), but reach spell would be an almost automatic default pick for any Wizard build if you were not looking at counterspell, familiar or spell book prodigy for a specific thing you are wanting your build to do. Most of those things won’t happen at level 1 though, so retraining or taking with a higher level feat are both fine options…and this isn’t even a class that gets a level 1 feat by default, so a lot of these are competing against level 2 feats as well (which contain another nearly mandatory feat in conceal spell, and other very strong choices). I almost always go human with my wizards just because wizards are so starved to get all of the good feats they have access to. I didn’t even mention widen spell at level 1, not because it is a bad feat, but because it is a feat you just won’t use as often as you will use reach spell, so it becomes more situational, even if that situation is the incredibly powerful “target one or two more creatures with your AoE spell.”
With so many basic but very powerful feats for casting spells, Wizard is in a tough spot for adding to many more non-situational/campaign dependent options because yo I don’t have the open spots for them.
For example, level 2 feats. Without conceal spell, the number of spells you can cast in public situations without shouting “hey, powerful caster here who could be casting who knows what” is very limited. Is every indifferent towns person or guard going to trust you are casting detect magic and not suggestion on them? Yes that is GM dependent, but you miss out on a lot of the value of being a prepared caster who can trade out spells daily and take great utility options when you can’t cast those options without causing trouble for yourself. It might not feel like a big character defining feat, but remembering that spells generally have to be shouted and draw a lot of attention, conceal spell is also the “cast spells behind a closed door without giving away your position” spell. Conceal spell is a feat that lets you use the strength of your class (casting spells) in more situations than you could otherwise. Certainly that has to be one of the most important measures of a feat’s strength.
But that means another unique wizard feat option gets left behind: nonlethal spell. Granted this one is again a little campaign/GM dependent on how frequently the GM lets any NPC interact with the death and dying rules, but it is really hard to take prisoners with spells in PF2, not to mention the times where a really strong AoE spell might totally save the day, but also have to hit a bystander that is not going to survive it. GMs can make the feat useless by never having captured enemies know anything worth learning about, but that is pretty hostile play, and once you get accustomed to being able to finish off enemies with out killing them, your ability to learn more about what challenges are ahead and what creatures you might face motives dramatically. Again, nonlethal spell is the kind of feat that can easily start making it a lot easier to do what you want to with your spells…especially with spell blending and the ability to change up spells after interrogating your prisoner.
One level 2 feat that definitely did miss the mark originally is energy ablation. Not enough resistance paired with having to cast a spell that does the damage type you are trying to resist combined to being too difficult to pull off with too little pay off. This feat was wasted space…until they got the concept exactly right with elemental defense in impossible magic: much better effect and much easier to set off without having to waste a spell targeting a creature likely to also have resistance to the same damage type. It might not as well cover some of the energy types and have more gaps, but it is a much more well balanced feat, worth wishing you have the space to take it, but knowing it would require a very elemental heavy themed campaign to be better than other near-mandatory feats you have available to you.
We can talk about the higher level feats too if people have questions or concerns about what to take or what not to take and why, but noting you have 3 or more very strong options to choose from in your fist 2 levels of feats means you can always go back and fill a higher slot with something you will use a lot, even if it is just for a while (like spellbook prodigy) before you will retrain it.
| Deriven Firelion |
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What do I consider the food wizard feats:
1. Reach Spell
2. Quicken Spell
3. Scroll Adept
4. Irresistible Magic: This comes up a lot at higher levels. It is useful against creatures that have the bonus it works against with no type stacking with everything.
5. Bond Conservation
6. Superior Bond
7. Level 20: Archwizard's Might, Spell Combination, Spell Mastery, Spellshape Mastery: What you take depends on your build.
Some of the other feats are situationally good.
Wizard feats not as good as what the sorc or druid get, but can be useful if you know how to plan for their use.
| Mathmuse |
Quoting from The Very Model of a Modern Wizard, comment #94 about the class feats of the 12th-level wizard Idris in my Strength of Thousands campaign.
I asked Idris's player (who is playing Slayer the Spire II online with my wife) what Idris learned with his class feats: Cantrip Expansion, Enhanced Familiar, Nonlethal Spell, an archetype feat, and a custom feat to teleport more bulk and more people. Idris's familiar is a Mask Familiar from his free Magaambyan Attendant archetype. The player has grabbed many feats for familiars due to the other feats feeling lackluster. Nonlethal Spell is a special circumstance because the party once worked as police officers who wanted to capture criminals alive.
The Magaambya Academy in Strength of Thousands has some wizard teachers, such as Takulu Ot, but they are built according to NPC rules rather than PC rules. In contrast, I statted out some fellow students, such as athletic ace student Esi Djana. I made her a 5th-level wizard with School of Battle Magic and Staff Nexus arcane thesis. Her wizard feats are Reach Spell, Cantrip Expansion, and Bespell Strikes.
Both Idris's player and I view feats as reflections of the personality of the character rather than a method of optimization. When I said "lackluster" in the quote above, I meant those feats did little to reflect the character.
As for what each feat might say about the wizard's ambitions:
Counterspell - cautious or controlling
Familiar - wants a pet
Reach Spell - wants better spells
Spellbook Progidy - wants more spells
Widen Spells - wants better spells
Cantrip Expansion - wants more spells
Conceal Spell - secretive
Elemental Defense or Energy Ablation - cautious
Enhanced Familiar - likes their pet
Nonlethal Spell - cautious
Idris is studious and helpful. The studiousness led to wanting more spells to reflect his learning, so he took Cantrip Expansion. He took Magical Shorthand directly rather than getting it through Spellbook Progidy. His familiar grew out of his Magaambyan Attendant free archetype rather than his wizard class.
Esi is driven by her parents to master sports, spells, and combat. She selected Staff Nexus arcane thesis to specialize in staff as both a weapon and a magical tool. Reach Spell represents wanting better spells in combat, Cantrip Expansion represents having many spells ready for combat, and Bespell Spells represents hitting for more damage in combat.
As for whether the feats aid in adventuring or not, I look at guides.
1st- and 2nd-level Wizard Feat Ratings according to Tarondor’s Guide to the Pathfinder Second Edition Wizard and Wizard Handbook: PF2 Remastered Class Guide – RPGBOT (Mar 2024)
Counterspell - Mediocre (Tarandor), Bad (RPGBOT)
Eschew Materials - Bad (Tarandor), no mention by RPGBOT
Familiar - Good (Both)
Reach Spell - Good (Both)
Spellbook Progidy - Mediocre (Tarandor), Good (RPGBOT)
Widen Spell - Good (Both)
Cantrip Expansion - Good (Both)
Conceal Spell - Mediocre (Both)
Energy Ablation - Good (Tarandor), Mediocre (RPGBOT)
Enhanced Familiar - Good (Both)
Nonlethal Spell - Good (Tarandor), Mediocre (RPGBOT)
Both list the 4th-level wizard feats as Bad or Mediocre, without mentioning Incriminating Spell from the new Impossible Magic. They rate most of the 6th-level feats as Good. Both Tarandor and RPGBOT do not label a wizard feat as Great until 10th-level Scroll Adept. For comparison, their bard guides rate the 1st- and 2nd-level bard feats in the full range from Bad to Great and both rated Bardic Lore and Multifarious Muse as Great.
| ScooterScoots |
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What do I consider the food wizard feats:
1. Reach Spell
2. Quicken Spell
3. Scroll Adept
4. Irresistible Magic: This comes up a lot at higher levels. It is useful against creatures that have the bonus it works against with no type stacking with everything.
5. Bond Conservation
6. Superior Bond
7. Level 20: Archwizard's Might, Spell Combination, Spell Mastery, Spellshape Mastery: What you take depends on your build.
Some of the other feats are situationally good.
Wizard feats not as good as what the sorc or druid get, but can be useful if you know how to plan for their use.
You missed shift spell. Best wizard feat, IMO *the* reason to play wizard over sorcerer - at least at higher levels. Goes hard with wall spells (other than wall of stone), repeated damage spells, and especially especially reverse gravity.
One time my buddies and I fought all 3 spawn of rovagug at once and the way we dealt with the big worm one was to shift spell ladder it up into the air away from it’s objective with two reverse gravities while the certain strike fighter dueled it in the sky.
The tarrasque we kept delaying with upheaval and quandary (which if done right can move it back by making the closest empty spot further away from you), and the teleporting bastard bug thing I vaporized with a nat 20 nat one critical spell combo double disintegrate in the luckiest moment of my life (when it came back we disintegrated it again).
| Deriven Firelion |
I forgot Effortless Concentration too. That's one good on all that have it.
I did not notice Shift Spell. That one could be good for use with those sustained or duration AOE effects you can't move that do damage or some nice effect. I usually gloss over those spells, but with Shift Spell it turns them into a moveable spell. You usually don't need the full duration anyway.
| Mathmuse |
You missed shift spell. Best wizard feat, IMO *the* reason to play wizard over sorcerer - at least at higher levels. Goes hard with wall spells (other than wall of stone), repeated damage spells, and especially especially reverse gravity.
Idris is going to love Shift Spell at 14th level. And he qualifies for the access: "Access member of the Magaambya."
I have not read the module Ready? Fight! from Fists of the Ruby Phoenix but Magaambya teacher Mafika Ayuwari was involved. I suspect that he is the teacher of that feat, because he has the Shift Spell ability.
| Unicore |
Force energy is not appreciated nearly enough as a feat.
It has no range limit and it costs no focus points.
Elemental Betrayal costs a focus point (so is harder to change targets with or damage types), caps out at a weakness of 6 and doesn't get there until level 17, and has only a 30ft range. Also, the elemental traits can be more difficult to sync up with martial allies runes than just damage types. It is pretty easy for a party to exploit that weakness very effectively.
| Blave |
Reach spell being an "auto-pick" because its the least bad option is not a good thing. It's a good feat, no doubt, but I rarely find practical use for it.
Calling Conceal Spell mandatory is extremely wrong. I have yet to see any caster taking this. I also can't think of many situations in 8 years of play where I though "I wish I could conceal my spellcasting". It's likely group- and playstyle-dependent. But please don't call a situationally ok feat mandatory just because it feels like it to you.
Also both of these feats are available to multiple classes. The difference is, they might seem less attractive on those other classes because they have better feats with a higher priority. That's not a proof of wizard feats being good. Quite the contrary, really.
Oh, and Energy Ablation was changed in the remaster. You can now freely pick an energy type to become resistant to, regardless of what type of damage your own spell deals. It's still not great, but it's better than the legacy version..
| Deriven Firelion |
Reach spell being an "auto-pick" because its the least bad option is not a good thing. It's a good feat, no doubt, but I rarely find practical use for it.
Calling Conceal Spell mandatory is extremely wrong. I have yet to see any caster taking this. I also can't think of many situations in 8 years of play where I though "I wish I could conceal my spellcasting". It's likely group- and playstyle-dependent. But please don't call a situationally ok feat mandatory just because it feels like it to you.
Also both of these feats are available to multiple classes. The difference is, they might seem less attractive on those other classes because they have better feats with a higher priority. That's not a proof of wizard feats being good. Quite the contrary, really.
Oh, and Energy Ablation was changed in the remaster. You can now freely pick an energy type to become resistant to, regardless of what type of damage your own spell deals. It's still not great, but it's better than the legacy version..
I get so much use out of Reach Spell. I'm surprised you can't find practical uses for it. My analysis with Reach is if I have to spend a move action to get in range, I'd rather use Reach Spell.
| Blave |
It's totally possible that my group just has an above average number of short-ish range fights, though we do play mostly APs these days. So I'm not sure how "unusual" those get.
If I'm out of range, I'll just use another spell or move into range. Relying on reach spell has the disadvantage of keeping you out of range, so you have to keep using it turn after turn. I'd much rather spend an action on a Stride once and be done unless I'm very certain the enemy will come closer.
But I also don't shy away from the frontline as much as many other caster players (see my ramblings about Caster HP being a wasted resource in my Necromancer guide). Being within 30-ish feet of the enemies is normal for me.
And as I said, most other caster classes simply have feats that are more valuable or interesting. I'm not even sure when I last had Reach Spell, much less actually used it. Unlike Conceal Spell, I sometimes find myself thinking "Reach Spell would be really handy now." But still not often enough to take it over other options (which for a wizard more often than not means an archetype).
Come to think of it, I'm not using spellshapes all that much overall. Last I got notable use out of was Cast Down on my Abo Vaults cleric. It's possible I undervalue them a bit, but you can absolutely make do without them.
| Errenor |
Calling Conceal Spell mandatory is extremely wrong. I have yet to see any caster taking this. I also can't think of many situations in 8 years of play where I though "I wish I could conceal my spellcasting". It's likely group- and playstyle-dependent. But please don't call a situationally ok feat mandatory just because it feels like it to you.
Conceal spell is not a conceal-spellcasting-feat (even though it's an obvious use). It's a casting-in-stealth, casting-underwater and casting-in-silence and -while-deafened (if you force flat checks for casting here) feat.
And yes, I will take it with any caster that has it. And probably even dedicate into wizard just for it.| Theaitetos |
If I'm out of range, I'll just use another spell or move into range. Relying on reach spell has the disadvantage of keeping you out of range, so you have to keep using it turn after turn. I'd much rather spend an action on a Stride once and be done unless I'm very certain the enemy will come closer.
Reach Spell is superior once you can't move closer or your spell is multi-target, e.g. a 3rd rank Fear, 4th rank Resist Energy, 5th rank Command, 6th rank Slow, 7th rank Haste, ...
That you never came across any of those seems super unusual.
| Unicore |
My argument about both reach spell and conceal spell is that they increase your opportunities for casting spells in situations where you might otherwise not cast the spell that you want to cast.
At higher levels it is not getting hit by an enemy attack that you need to worry about as a wizard, it is having atrocious saves with very few tier of success boosts in your chassis. And even at level 1, reach doubles the range at which you can use electric arc to target 2 enemies. It takes rank 3 spells before you have a significantly better offensive option as a wizard than hitting 2 targets with electric arc. I haven’t played many of the newer APs but I strongly doubt they have shrunk all maps down small enough that 30ft is always enough range to get 2 targets with electric arc. Not to mention not having to expose yourself to reactive strikes to deliver touch spells.
There are other rank one wizard feats worth taking, but reach is never a reach for a wizard feat, at least not in the first 4 levels of feats. By level 6 wizards do start getting so many more very exceptional feats that you have better options than reach spell.
| Unicore |
One thing I will say about the best Wizard feats is that they are rarely super flashy, character defining options, and I think there are players who want nearly every feat to be like double slice, where it becomes the one activity that you try to make sure to do every round of every encounter. Personally, I think that style of play is very antithetical to the Wizard, who’s “bread and butter” turn is casting a spell from a spell slot, a spell that is going to be different more often than it is the same, so the best feats and especially spell shape feats are going to be broad and generalized, not hyper focused around a single spell or small handful of spells.
Like in theory, widen spell would be the more likely feat to boost the power level of the Wizard by targeting an extra enemy or two with an AoE spell, but being limited to AoE spells drops widen below reach because you will just use it less often by virtue of casting many spells a day that aren’t AoE.