Question about Creatures and Objects

[PookaWitch]

So, I'm here to ask a rules clarification because my husband and I can't agree and I'm hoping somebody can show proof for one side or the other.

He says that a spell that targets objects works on creatures because 'a creature is an object'.

The spell in question is 'trade items'. A character was picked up by a wyvern and he said that since she's being carried he can use the spell on her since 'a creature is an object'. I keep trying to explain that they are two different things.
(It's a bit of a moot point anyhow, since the character would be too large, even if a creature is indeed an object. But I'm sure this will come up again in the future.)

He says that there is tons of proof online that creatures are in fact objects, but I don't know why there would be separate spells for locating objects and locating creatures. He also points out how Polymorph Object can target living things, even though the spell's title says 'object'.

Please help! It's gotten heated. If he's right, please, please let me know.

(Note: we GM back and forth in the same setting, so we need to agree on rules.)

[Azothath]

thankfully this is easy. Creatures and Objects are mutually exclusive separate things in PF1. As magical things can get tricky there may be a creature out there that also qualifies as an object for spell targeting but that tidbit will be in its Description.

You can see this in spell targeting.
→ Conjuration School rules where there is a lot of "creature or object" and we take the OR to be an Exclusive Or.
→ Aiming a Spell ... Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. again, an Exclusive Or. and later...
Creatures: A spell with this kind of area affects creatures directly (like a targeted spell), but it affects all creatures in an area of some kind rather than individual creatures you select. The area might be a spherical burst, a cone-shaped burst, or some other shape.
Many spells affect “living creatures,” which means all creatures other than constructs and undead. Creatures in the spell's area that are not of the appropriate type do not count against the creatures affected.
Objects: A spell with this kind of area affects objects within an area you select (as Creatures, but affecting objects instead).

Construct Type: ... Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Undead Type: ... {as above}

If problems persist mention that destroying a sentient living creature can be an Evil act or crime whereas destroying a good mug of beer is simply a waste.

[Azothath]

→ Trade Items:C4  Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels), Target one object weighing no more than 5 lbs./level so CL=7 trades one held and one object within 40ft line of effect of ≤35lb if the possessor fails a Will save of let's say 17. {IMO a underpowered spell} It will work on magic items, weapons, holy symbols, mugs of beer and such. Most armor is too heavy. There's that tricky line "tied {to} its holder"...

ADVICE - better options -
Break:T1 Range: Close. Will (11 +SAS) else object gains broken condition and broken object is destroyed.
Pilfering Hand:K2 Range: Close. CM Disarm/Steal at CM= 1d20 +CL +SAS(spellcasting ability score bonus).
Mad Monkeys:C3 CM Disarm/Steal at CM= 1d20 +CL +SAS.

ofcourse Magic Missile:K1 provides another object≠creature example.

[happykj]

Armor Class: Objects are easier to hit than creatures because they don’t usually move, but many are tough enough to shrug off some damage from each blow. An object’s Armor Class is equal to 10 + its size modifier (see Table 7–11) + its Dexterity modifier. An inanimate object has not only a Dexterity of 0 (–5 penalty to AC), but also an additional –2 penalty to its AC. Furthermore, if you take a full-round action to line up a shot, you get an automatic hit with a melee weapon and a +5 bonus on attack rolls with a ranged weapon.

Smashing An Object

[PookaWitch]

Thank you! Those notes should clear things up. ^_^

We've been roleplaying together for 35 years and it's just now that I found out he thinks creatures are objects. I have no clue how that slipped by for so long. O.o

In hindsight I can see other times in the past where I thought he was joking, but I guess he was serious.

[KarmicPlaneswalker]

Your husband is 100% incorrect, and any "evidence" he presents, is homebrew nonsense to support a fallacious argument.

Per RAW, objects are distinctly separate from creatures.

[DeathlessOne]

It might stem from an older system or that creature 'corpses' can count as objects. But you are correct, a creature is not an object unless it counts as one explicitly through type or special note.

[Diego Rossi]

Polymorph Any Object is the name of the spell, not the description.

The description says:
"Target one creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level"
giving separate permissions to target creatures and objects. It doesn't conflate them together.
Same thing for other parts of the description.