Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1600
My group has two interpretations.
The first is that the first sentence requires the players turn into animals when gaining the speeds, and the second sentence clarifies what the speeds are and gives the option to be tiny or small.
The second interpretation is that the second sentence gives you the option to turn into a tiny or small animal but doesn't require it. Meaning the characters get the speeds but don't have to be animals.
What do we think out here?
|
3 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Definitely that they turn into animals.
It's hard to imagine wanting to use Migration if you're high enough to cast Rank 8 spells. 20mph for 8 hours? So it gets your party 160 miles in a day.
Rank 3 ritual Mystic Carriage goes 20.5mph and up to 250 miles (500 on a crit success) for a ritual cost of 50gp, and you don't have to "hoof" it (heheheh). The carriage let's you relax inside in comfort.
Plane wrote: It's hard to imagine wanting to use Migration if you're high enough to cast Rank 8 spells. 20mph for 8 hours? So it gets your party 160 miles in a day.
Rank 3 ritual Mystic Carriage goes 20.5mph and up to 250 miles (500 on a crit success) for a ritual cost of 50gp, and you don't have to "hoof" it (heheheh). The carriage let's you relax inside in comfort.
I'd recommend Umbral Journey 5. Migration is 4-6 times faster than normal. Umbral Journey is about 24 times faster.
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
The benefit to Migration however is the ability to essentially pause and change your intended destination by turning back into regular form and then be able to pick up from where you left off as the spell doesn't end when they do, So you are able to visit many places along the way unlike Teleport or similar which is 1 destination per casting of the spell.
and that it's Common unlike the above suggestions. But yeah for regular A->B travel theres plenty of better options.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Plane wrote: Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours. You don't calculate overland travel with Speed x 3.
A Speed of 60 gives you 6 miles per hour. Even with 24h long drives, that's 144 miles per day, or 48 miles per day of regular travel, which also aligns with the reason why the duration of the ritual is "1 week or until destination is reached".
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Plane wrote: Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours. Yeah, you don't run the math for this, you take this table from GM Core:
Travel Speed
Also, normal travelling/exploration activities in the game is 8 hours/day. Any more and the party becomes fatigued. (And doing anything, being awake for more than 16 hours is guaranteed to make you fatigued. And then probably worse if this continues for long.)
A couple of benefits of Migration that I don't see mentioned is that it doesn't limit you to land speed for your travel, and it provides environmental protections equal to what the local wildlife enjoys.
Umbral Journey is super fast, but doesn't grant any speeds at all or any protections. So you are still on your own for where you can go.
Mystic Carriage is similar. You could argue that being a vehicle, it provides some measure of environmental protection. But it still only has a land speed.
So if you are needing to visit the merfolk colony several miles deep in the ocean, or travel through the plane of Air or Fire, Migration might be a good choice.
It probably isn't a spell that is going to be put in Repertoire for constant access. It may not even be a spell that the party deliberately decides to use. It may instead be a plot device that the GM provides for the party - cast by a friendly or allied caster provided by those who invited the party to the remote location in the first place.
-----
As for the OP question. Yes, you do have to turn into an animal of some sort and (more importantly) lose your ability to Strike, cast spells, or use Manipulate actions.
The game rules aren't written in a rigorous manner. They don't always make proper distinction between 'can' and 'must' like you would expect from a technical design specification.
shroudb wrote: Plane wrote: Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours. You don't calculate overland travel with Speed x 3.
A Speed of 60 gives you 6 miles per hour. Even with 24h long drives, that's 144 miles per day, or 48 miles per day of regular travel, which also aligns with the reason why the duration of the ritual is "1 week or until destination is reached". Right, but that's rules for people. The Mystic Carriage is not people, and it says it does not stop unless the road is blocked. That's why it has the 1 week duration, so the GM can introduce an adventure along the journey without disrupting the ritual. If it's unimpeded, it goes nonstop at speed to reach the 250 mile point in 12.19 hours. That's no different from a sailing ship traveling 24 hours a day without fatiguing its passengers.
Plane wrote: shroudb wrote: Plane wrote: Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours. You don't calculate overland travel with Speed x 3.
A Speed of 60 gives you 6 miles per hour. Even with 24h long drives, that's 144 miles per day, or 48 miles per day of regular travel, which also aligns with the reason why the duration of the ritual is "1 week or until destination is reached". Right, but that's rules for people. The Mystic Carriage is not people, and it says it does not stop unless the road is blocked. That's why it has the 1 week duration, so the GM can introduce an adventure along the journey without disrupting the ritual. If it's unimpeded, it goes nonstop at speed to reach the 250 mile point in 12.19 hours. That's no different from a sailing ship traveling 24 hours a day without fatiguing its passengers.
Ah, ok, makes sense that it doesn't become fatigued and goes non-stop. What doesn't is 12 hours. It still goes only at 6 mph per the table, so about 42 hours. In the best case scenario without any incidents.
______
Also it's 250 miles by air, straight or 250 miles on roads? :)
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
Plane wrote: Right, but that's rules for people. The Mystic Carriage is not people, and it says it does not stop unless the road is blocked. That's why it has the 1 week duration, so the GM can introduce an adventure along the journey without disrupting the ritual. If it's unimpeded, it goes nonstop at speed to reach the 250 mile point in 12.19 hours. That's no different from a sailing ship traveling 24 hours a day without fatiguing its passengers. Its not just for people. It's for vehicles too. Which the Carriage is according to the spell.
Said sailing ship only manages 4 miles an hour as part of exploration. You could technically make it go faster but thats going to be an improvised exploration activity.
Vehicles/Movement and Heading wrote: When using a vehicle in exploration mode, the vehicle's Speed determines its travel speed just like a creature (for more information, see the Travel Speed table on page 438 of Player Core). No Drive actions or piloting checks are necessary to pilot a vehicle at these speeds.
Plane wrote: shroudb wrote: Plane wrote: Errenor wrote:
Mystic Carriage moves very fast but in the upper range of normal, 48 miles per day.
I ran the math based on a speed of 60 which is 30' per second. That gives it a speed of 20.5 mph. So, it reaches its max 250 mile journey in around 12 hours. You don't calculate overland travel with Speed x 3.
A Speed of 60 gives you 6 miles per hour. Even with 24h long drives, that's 144 miles per day, or 48 miles per day of regular travel, which also aligns with the reason why the duration of the ritual is "1 week or until destination is reached". Right, but that's rules for people. The Mystic Carriage is not people, and it says it does not stop unless the road is blocked. That's why it has the 1 week duration, so the GM can introduce an adventure along the journey without disrupting the ritual. If it's unimpeded, it goes nonstop at speed to reach the 250 mile point in 12.19 hours. That's no different from a sailing ship traveling 24 hours a day without fatiguing its passengers.
That's why I said even if you rule that you can go for 24h instead of 8 that's normal for people. Basically giving you both options to run the spell.
BUT:
You still only go at 6 miles per hour though because the speed is 60, you don't multiply that by 3 for overland travel for anything, not for people, not for vehicles, not for spells.
shroudb wrote:
You still only go at 6 miles per hour though because the speed is 60, you don't multiply that by 3 for overland travel for anything, not for people, not for vehicles, not for spells.
I get your stance. The rules say particular things about everything classed as overland travel. If I were ruling on this, I would differentiate between people (who the system assumes are traveling 8 hours a day before encountering fatigue) and propelled vehicles that travel nonstop. Sailing ships, airships, magic carriages that all travel nonstop should go their real speed, not their "speed translated into overland travel" speeds.
Plane wrote: shroudb wrote: You still only go at 6 miles per hour though because the speed is 60, you don't multiply that by 3 for overland travel for anything, not for people, not for vehicles, not for spells. I get your stance. The rules say particular things about everything classed as overland travel. If I were ruling on this, I would differentiate between people (who the system assumes are traveling 8 hours a day before encountering fatigue) and propelled vehicles that travel nonstop. But the rules also lists a miles per hour column ontop of the Miles per day, A party can travel for more than 8 hours if do so fatigued and a vehicle can absolutely spend 24 hours of travel provided it has enough crew on rotation and on smaller vehicles the party can just rotate among themselves.
"Plane wrote: Sailing ships, airships, magic carriages that all travel nonstop should go their real speed, not their "speed translated into overland travel" speeds. You mean "Maximum speed", Not real speed. Important reminder that these speeds RAW are considered reckless operation and thus needs piloting checks. Which is fine as improvised exploration activities are encouraged, but I find it hard to believe that is what they had in mind for any self-driving vehicle or mount. As is seen in the Flying Broomstick doing 16 miles in 4 hours. That matches the 4MPH from the table with its 40ft.
Plane wrote: shroudb wrote:
You still only go at 6 miles per hour though because the speed is 60, you don't multiply that by 3 for overland travel for anything, not for people, not for vehicles, not for spells.
I get your stance. The rules say particular things about everything classed as overland travel. If I were ruling on this, I would differentiate between people (who the system assumes are traveling 8 hours a day before encountering fatigue) and propelled vehicles that travel nonstop. Sailing ships, airships, magic carriages that all travel nonstop should go their real speed, not their "speed translated into overland travel" speeds. Their "real speed" though is 6 miles per hour.
The "abnormal" is full-on sprint, which is the 3 actions per turn of Encounter mode.
To put it more simply:
if the intention of the spell was to alter base rules, it would say which rules were altered, as an example it would list that it doesn't move at the overland speed that match its speed but instead it moves at X miles/hour.
As written, it changes nothing about how the overland speed is calculated based on normal Speed, so it's a fair assumption that it follows the rules that establish said movement.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Respectfully, ShroudB. I disagree. I think it is a fair assumption that a magical carriage heading unerringly towards its destination goes for 24 hours a day rather than 8.
Personally I think that however the math works out, it is going to end up that the carriage travels at the speed of plot.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Finoan wrote: Personally I think that however the math works out, it is going to end up that the carriage travels at the speed of plot. LOL. You're probably right.
Ravingdork wrote: Respectfully, ShroudB. I disagree. I think it is a fair assumption that a magical carriage heading unerringly towards its destination goes for 24 hours a day rather than 8. i think you misunderstood me:
i DID say that it can probably go for 24h straight, I even gave the total miles for it.
the point we are disagreeing with Plane is that instead of using the overland miles/hour per day for the carriage Speed, he's multipling that by 3 for doing "3 strides per turn, each turn is 6 seconds".
shroudb wrote: Ravingdork wrote: Respectfully, ShroudB. I disagree. I think it is a fair assumption that a magical carriage heading unerringly towards its destination goes for 24 hours a day rather than 8. i think you misunderstood me:
i DID say that it can probably go for 24h straight, I even gave the total miles for it.
the point we are disagreeing with Plane is that instead of using the overland miles/hour per day for the carriage Speed, he's multipling that by 3 for doing "3 strides per turn, each turn is 6 seconds". Yes. I tried to add something like this to my last post but forum troubles ate it and I let it go.
Yes, we can count it moving 24 hours per day. But we will use 6 mph from the table.
Even if there were something in Plane's arguments, I absolutely refuse to calculate something when I have a nice table for this. Also you won't make me convert feet/min to miles/hour. Never.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I like to do things like that as fun thought exercises, but I would never realistically expect anyone to go for that kind of minutae over an official table.
Ravingdork wrote: I like to do things like that as fun thought exercises, but I would never realistically expect anyone to go for that kind of minutae over an official table. which was exactly why I said that if the intention was to go at the speed of 3 strides per turn, they would have put out the actual speed you are doing per hour and not require people to bust out calculators to figure out how much they are going.
the absence of those "modified numbers" is what i pointed out, which would make me assume that the intention is to simply use the actual table for speeds and check:
"60 speed? ok, that's 6 miles per hour."
Finoan wrote: Personally I think that however the math works out, it is going to end up that the carriage travels at the speed of plot. Ha! This^
Recent threads in Rules Discussion
|
