Is this meant to be a sequel? The description ("including several heroes trapped there when Cheliax declares martial law and seals its borders.") makes it sound like you begin in Cheliax. I haven't finished reading Hellbreakers- does this mesh with the ending of that adventure?
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Its not a direct sequel, as in, there's no cliffhanger ending or clear set up for Hell's Destiny to begin moments after Hellbreakers ends.
However, the adventure calls out that there's more to do for Isger to truly become an independent nation, so there's plenty of reasons the player characters might wind up in Cheliax to kick off Hell's Destiny. The AP will likely have a paragraph suggesting reasons for Hellbreakers characters to wind up where they need to be. And also include options for those who want to run it standalone.
"While Isger still has plenty of adventure left, PCs who wish to continue the fight against Cheliax can transition into the next Adventure Path, Hell’s Destiny. In this campaign, the PCs join various factions such as Andoran and Ravounel to directly confront Cheliax and mount an attack against its hellish forces as their enemy prepares their most diabolical plan yet."
Creative Director
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Folks have been asking for a 1st to 20th level campaign for a while. That's not something we've been able to do for several years for production and sales related reasons, which I've gone into a lot elsewhere, but for this, the inaugural two all-in-one hardcover Adventure Paths it was important to me to set them up as a throughline that you could play from 1st to 20th level. It's very much the intent to play them this way, but they're also set up so that folks who only want to play one or the other can do that as well. And also set up as two separate books so that we COULD produce them on our schedule and not break banks (or backs) along the way.
Will for sure be watching feedback from folks once both are out to see if this version of producing a full 1st to 20th level experience is successful. Particularly interested in the sales of Hell's Destiny compared to Hellbreakers, and to feedback from folks as to whether they want a stronger connection between the two or the opposite.
Awesome thank you! I like the model of 1-10/10-20 APs with similar themes. Gives the option to do them both together or mix them up.
Folks have been asking for a 1st to 20th level campaign for a while. That's not something we've been able to do for several years for production and sales related reasons, which I've gone into a lot elsewhere, but for this, the inaugural two all-in-one hardcover Adventure Paths it was important to me to set them up as a throughline that you could play from 1st to 20th level. It's very much the intent to play them this way, but they're also set up so that folks who only want to play one or the other can do that as well. And also set up as two separate books so that we COULD produce them on our schedule and not break banks (or backs) along the way.
Will for sure be watching feedback from folks once both are out to see if this version of producing a full 1st to 20th level experience is successful. Particularly interested in the sales of Hell's Destiny compared to Hellbreakers, and to feedback from folks as to whether they want a stronger connection between the two or the opposite.
hopefully you'll be able to account for the long tail of those of us with groups that take forever to get through an AP so probably won't be buying HD for a good while yet!
Our group is an almost certain lock in for Hell's Destiny, but i imagine it might be a good 16+ months before we get there, playing only around 3 hours (not including time lost to people being late!) each session, maybe 6 weeks out of every 8 lmao.
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I am annoyed that the war seems to be ending roughly a year after it began like the world of Golarion's destiny is dictated by the market cycles of some strange world beyond their control.
I also don't want Cheliax to go away as an enemy. I am not against kick fascists, I just am less excited by a repeated theme of chipping away at Cheliax's borders (Hell's Rebels, Hellbreaker, and potentially Hell's Destiny). We need a variety of antagonists to keep games interesting. Not every group needs to be fighting demon hoards and mythical lyches. Sometimes you just just want to fight against societal wrongs that have an infernal bent. Some people will call that maintaining the status quo, but in a game setting I believe in conservation of narrative hooks.
Let this new world state persist, lets leave space for war stories which aren't over in a fiscal year.
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I am annoyed that the war seems to be ending roughly a year after it began like the world of Golarion's destiny is dictated by the market cycles of some strange world beyond their control.
Is it? The Hellfire Crisis event surely is, with the independences of Isger and Corentyn and the new status quo of Infernal Inheritance, but that doesn't necessarily mean Andoran and Cheliax will agree to an armistice or a peace treaty, and certainly Molthune lashing out at all its neighbors seems to be the new status quo. I could see the state of things going forward being a "frozen conflict"/sitzkrieg in the north and east, while the west makes good on charting its own course.
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I also don't want Cheliax to go away as an enemy. I am not against kick fascists, I just am less excited by a repeated theme of chipping away at Cheliax's borders (Hell's Rebels, Hellbreaker, and potentially Hell's Destiny). We need a variety of antagonists to keep games interesting. Not every group needs to be fighting demon hoards and mythical lyches. Sometimes you just just want to fight against societal wrongs that have an infernal bent. Some people will call that maintaining the status quo, but in a game setting I believe in conservation of narrative hooks.
There was a decade of real-life and in-fiction time between Hell's Rebels and Hellbreakers. They also *did* make Hell's Vengeance in that intervening time. Cheliax hasn't been in the spotlight as PF2 baddies.
I sincerely doubt the new LO: Cheliax book is going to present them as too defeated to be antagonists for a campaign of your own.
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There was a decade of real-life and in-fiction time between Hell's Rebels and Hellbreakers. They also *did* make Hell's Vengeance in that intervening time. Cheliax hasn't been in the spotlight as PF2 baddies.
I sincerely doubt the new LO: Cheliax book is going to present them as too defeated to be antagonists for a campaign of your own.
Agreed with the second point, but to pick a nit, Hell's Vengeance and Hell's Rebels were supposed to take place in parallel, at the same time, not in succession; and were only published in succession because that's just what Paizo did at the time.
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Agreed with the second point, but to pick a nit, Hell's Vengeance and Hell's Rebels were supposed to take place in parallel, at the same time, not in succession; and were only published in succession because that's just what Paizo did at the time.
And the significant complexities of that—producing two Adventure Paths that would take place at the same time but (due to the realities of the laws of time and space) had to be created by entirely different groups of people and authors while ALSO not implying that one of the two campaigns was the "winner" such that it would make the players of the other Adventure Path feel like no matter what they did, they couldn't win their campaign were so significant that we never tried this stunt again.
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I am annoyed that the war seems to be ending roughly a year after it began like the world of Golarion's destiny is dictated by the market cycles of some strange world beyond their control.
I also don't want Cheliax to go away as an enemy. I am not against kick fascists, I just am less excited by a repeated theme of chipping away at Cheliax's borders (Hell's Rebels, Hellbreaker, and potentially Hell's Destiny). We need a variety of antagonists to keep games interesting. Not every group needs to be fighting demon hoards and mythical lyches. Sometimes you just just want to fight against societal wrongs that have an infernal bent. Some people will call that maintaining the status quo, but in a game setting I believe in conservation of narrative hooks.
Let this new world state persist, lets leave space for war stories which aren't over in a fiscal year.
Exactly how long the war takes to end at your table depends not on our marketing cycles but on your table's schedule and how fast your PCs finish the adventures and whether or not the GM extends or contracts events to spread things out.
Not gonna speak more to the fate of Cheliax yet, but maybe wait until all of these products are out before you worry about Golarion becoming a setting where there's no more villains to fight. That won't change as long as Paizo's still publishing content for Golarion! :-)
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I'm sure we'll eventually solve All the problems and institute a perfect worldwide utopia riiiiiiiiight before The Gap happens.
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I am annoyed that the war seems to be ending roughly a year after it began like the world of Golarion's destiny is dictated by the market cycles of some strange world beyond their control.
I also don't want Cheliax to go away as an enemy. I am not against kick fascists, I just am less excited by a repeated theme of chipping away at Cheliax's borders (Hell's Rebels, Hellbreaker, and potentially Hell's Destiny). We need a variety of antagonists to keep games interesting. Not every group needs to be fighting demon hoards and mythical lyches. Sometimes you just just want to fight against societal wrongs that have an infernal bent. Some people will call that maintaining the status quo, but in a game setting I believe in conservation of narrative hooks.
Let this new world state persist, lets leave space for war stories which aren't over in a fiscal year.
Exactly how long the war takes to end at your table depends not on our marketing cycles but on your table's schedule and how fast your PCs finish the adventures and whether or not the GM extends or contracts events to spread things out.
Not gonna speak more to the fate of Cheliax yet, but maybe wait until all of these products are out before you worry about Golarion becoming a setting where there's no more villains to fight. That won't change as long as Paizo's still publishing content for Golarion! :-)
Except the Cheliax book which is coming out after the conclusion for Hell's Destiny and acknowledges the rise of the Goblinoid nation in the Chitterwoods IS establishing the new status quo. I don't know if we have ever canonized the ending of an AP this quickly excluding anything related to the Runelords in 1e of course. We are officially establishing a new status quo for Isger going forward.
We will have canon in the setting. A GM can always adjust the setting and say "in our Golarion, Eutropia lost the war, and we are dealing with a very different Taldor", but that doesn't count. Thats just GM prerogative, its not the story Paizo is going to be selling in future books and adventures.
Note Pathfinder Society is ending its adventures in the Cheliaxian war. Definitive ending? No, but certainly falls into the exact mold I mentioned first. PFS's war if no one else's is dictated by Earth's fiscal year and its disappointing. If you are going to start a war take it seriously, and yes I know you, Mr. Jacobs are not in charge of PFS scenarios.
I also don't want Cheliax to go away as an enemy. I am not against kick fascists, I just am less excited by a repeated theme of chipping away at Cheliax's borders (Hell's Rebels, Hellbreaker, and potentially Hell's Destiny). We need a variety of antagonists to keep games interesting. Not every group needs to be fighting demon hoards and mythical lyches. Sometimes you just just want to fight against societal wrongs that have an infernal bent. Some people will call that maintaining the status quo, but in a game setting I believe in conservation of narrative hooks.There was a decade of real-life and in-fiction time between Hell's Rebels and Hellbreakers. They also *did* make Hell's Vengeance in that intervening time. Cheliax hasn't been in the spotlight as PF2 baddies.
I sincerely doubt the new LO: Cheliax book is going to present them as too defeated to be antagonists for a campaign of your own.
Except for PFS notably in the metaplots of Years 3, 6, and 7. Paizo didn't forget about Cheliax, and I never said they did. As stated before we are already moving on from the war in PFS come year 8. Society either doesn't have a war to fight or is capricious enough to leave it half finished. I'll leave that possibility open, but it seems plain to see Paizo is moving on. Two APs for the war, then immediately a setting book to canonize changes, and no more Society involvement as they play around with an Azlanti relic. The war's most impactful time, unfortunately, is set in a whole year and I find that very disappointing.
But I did say that chipping away at Cheliax's borders was already done. I'll narrow down what I was saying to not presume Hell's Destiny's ending, though I am personally convinced. Hell's Rebel's and Hellbreakers is the same theme of being rebels in a Cheliaxian vassal and then granting it independence. Nothing wrong with liking that. Hell's Rebels is very popular why not remix it into 2e.
As a GM I would say that I like to play low levels' campaigns.