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No one has an inherent DEX cap. The DEX caps are always on an item or ability.
Barding has a DEX cap. An animal companion that is not using any item with a DEX cap doesn't have a DEX cap.
There is not a section in the book stating "if you aren't using an item with a DEX cap, you don't have a DEX cap." There is simply no rule anywhere suggesting that anyone, including both PCs and animal companions, has a DEX cap when not using an item or ability that has one.
I have a small question.
Players have a AC dex cap of 5 in light/unarmored armor.
Does animal companion follow the same rules?
I have a Nimble + Daredevil + Ambusher bird, which give it a Dex of +9, and at level 14 it make for 23 AC (rules without level). But in my table some think that the same rules on PC apply on animal companions.Do you have a source or ruling that say in a way or not?
Thank you and best regards,
You have a misunderstanding.
Light armor has a practical cap in that the armor bonus provided + maximum dex that armor allows is at most equal to 5. There are even some "armors" that are categorized as unarmored (which is a silly designation if you're going to have it count as armor, but I digress) which also tend to have a dex cap of 5. But actual unarmored has no dex cap. So at high level you can get your dex modifier up to +7 (using an apex item).
There is no general rule that players cannot have more than a +5 total bonus to armor from dex & armor. Generally though, effectively you can't achieve more than a +5 except at very high levels with a focused dex investment.
And since there is no general restriction around dex to AC, there's no restriction on animal companions either.
So, the various sources of dex increases that you have all seem valid and so you should get the +9 to AC for your companion, as long as they don't try to wear any barding.
If your fellow players/GM insist otherwise, please ask them to show you (the non-existant) rule that imposes a generic dex cap even when wearing no armor of any sort.
Now, the downside (typically) is that if you're truly wearing no armor you can't access armor property runes (specifically the ones that increase your saves). And even the item that I thought of (Bands of Force) that might allow you to get that bonus to saves has a dex restriction on it.
However, this downside doesn't have any bearing on companions as they don't generally have access to save enhancing items anyways.
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And honestly, at high levels it's worth throwing a bone to animal companions anyways (in the form of letting them have high AC).
Their attack and damage don't really keep up, having them be a body on the field to attract and soak attacks is the most you can really hope for at high levels.
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I think you're forgetting armor potency, there.
...but also that they're playing Proficiency Without Level. The companion definitely wouldn't have an AC less than 10+ level, otherwise.
Which means 23 is actually high. You need Master in AC to meet or beat that, so Monks match it and Champions or Guardians are ahead by just one.
Agreed. A 5th level Champion/Fighter in Full Plate has an Armor Class of 23 (no shield bonus). An Animal Companion with that armor rating is going to get critically hit pretty much every time in a fight with level 18 enemies.
Well, the enemy's attack bonus should also be a lot less because of the removal of "level" from their attack bonus too. But I'm less familiar with the rules so it's hard for me to envision exactly what it is.
Edit: Quick analysis, a level 18 monster has on the high end a +37 to hit normally. Adjusting for proficiency without level, that gives a +19 to hit vs an AC of 23. So that monster would critically hit on a 14 or more. Which is a 35% chance of a critical hit. 15% chance to miss (including 5% crit fail). 50% chance to hit.
For comparison, an 18th fighter, that we'll assume is wearing heavy armor with dex cap has a +6 from armor/dex and a +6 from master proficiency.
Giving an AC of 22, if I'm not forgetting anything.
Edit: I am forgetting runes. So that's likely a 24/25 AC.
So the animal companion isn't far behind most martial classes.
Well, the Fighter is four levels higher than the animal companion.
Can you please elaborate? Animal companions don't really have "level" for most purposes in PF2, although according to the rules their level is equal to yours when relevant.
Edit: Never mind. I realized the OP was talking about a 14th level animal companion and not 18th.
Although, since your doing proficiency without level, it actually doesn't make a huge difference. The fighter's proficiency would drop to expert instead of master, going from +6 to +4. Putting them at the same AC.
But, based on the math the OP gave for how they arrived at a +9 dex to AC, they would have needed to take specialized companion 3 times. Which would mean they would need to be 18th level. So might be a discrepancy there.
Sorry, you're right. But that would still require level 16 wouldn't it?
OP didn't mention Free Archetype, but I suppose that could be the case.