Gearing a summon guardian spirit


Rules Questions


if I make a permanent change to a guardian spirit.....like transfer a tattoo to it.....does it keep that tattoo with future summons?

"A guardian spirit is always exactly the same creature, with memory of all the events that occurred while previously summoned; multiple versions of it can’t be summoned."

What about regular magic items? Spells with permanency? Polymorph any object?


If it helps, here is a relevant post by James Jacobs on how he might handle it in regards to eidolons vs summoned creatures in general:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=298?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Q uestions-Here#14851

Your GM may have a different interpretation, but I would handle guardian spirits in the same way as James suggests for eidolons; Gear given to the guardian spirit stays with it across summons.

Liberty's Edge

Monster Summoner’s Handbook wrote:

Summon Guardian Spirit

A guardian spirit has selected you as its ward.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast summon monster III or summon nature’s ally III.

Benefit: Select one creature that qualifies to be an improved familiar, and apply the guardian spirit template (see below) to it. That creature is added to either your summon monster III or summon nature’s ally III list as a summonable creature. When you summon your guardian spirit, the duration of the spell you use to summon it is 1 minute per level. A guardian spirit is always exactly the same creature, with memory of all the events that occurred while previously summoned; multiple versions of it can’t be summoned. If it’s killed while summoned, it cannot be summoned again for 24 hours.

If you’re capable of casting a higher-level summon monster or summon nature’s ally spell, you can perform a ritual to attune the guardian spirit to a higher-level version of the spell. This also allows you to change any selections made regarding the abilities the creature gains based on the level of spell used to conjure it (see the table on page 27). This ritual takes 24 hours, and once complete it moves the guardian spirit to the higher level list of creatures that can be summoned.

It does exactly what it says, nothing more, nothing less. The guardian spirit isn't a way to store items or to add abilities to a creature besides what is in the feat list.

The guardian spirit is a summoned creature. Note what JJ said about summoned creatures:

Quote:
5) Summoned creatures are very different. The actual summoned creature itself has no existence before or after the summon monster/summon nature's ally spell is cast, and thus any items it's equipped with have nowhere to come from and nowhere to go. If a summoned monster is a creature that, in its actual stat block, has gear, that gear is with the monster when it arrives, but vanishes as soon as the monster or spell effect is slain/ends. And any additional gear given to a summoned monster drops to the ground as soon as the spell ends or the summoned monster is defeated.

The guardian spirit breaks some of those rules (it remembers the previous summoning), but is still a summoned creature that doesn't exist between the summonings. Otherwise, summoning it could fail because it is dead, summoned by another caster, or visiting its grandmother.


Diego Rossi wrote:


Summoned creatures are very different. The actual summoned creature itself has no existence before or after the summon monster/summon nature's ally spell is cast, and thus any items it's equipped with have nowhere to come from and nowhere to go. If a summoned monster is a creature that, in its actual stat block, has gear, that gear is with the monster when it arrives, but vanishes as soon as the monster or spell effect is slain/ends. And any additional gear...

The template to build the creature says they can be summoned with calling spells too, like planar ally. Wouldnt that suggest they are real creatures somewhere, like the eidolon?


thelemonache wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:


Summoned creatures are very different. The actual summoned creature itself has no existence before or after the summon monster/summon nature's ally spell is cast, and thus any items it's equipped with have nowhere to come from and nowhere to go. If a summoned monster is a creature that, in its actual stat block, has gear, that gear is with the monster when it arrives, but vanishes as soon as the monster or spell effect is slain/ends. And any additional gear...
The template to build the creature says they can be summoned with calling spells too, like planar ally. Wouldnt that suggest they are real creatures somewhere, like the eidolon?

That would seem to imply that it depends on which spell you use. Calling spells would allow equipment, tattoos, etc., but summoning spells would only have the abilities listed in the spell plus the template adjustments.

Liberty's Edge

thelemonache wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Summoned creatures are very different. The actual summoned creature itself has no existence before or after the summon monster/summon nature's ally spell is cast, and thus any items it's equipped with have nowhere to come from and nowhere to go. If a summoned monster is a creature that, in its actual stat block, has gear, that gear is with the monster when it arrives, but vanishes as soon as the monster or spell effect is slain/ends. And any additional gear...
The template to build the creature says they can be summoned with calling spells too, like planar ally. Wouldnt that suggest they are real creatures somewhere, like the eidolon?

Calling spells call the actual, physical form of a creature. AFAIK, barring specific abilities of the creature, a called entity can be slain, and it will stay slain unless returned to life.

Their non-instantaneous spells effects continue even after they have been dismissed; they can use spell-like abilities that requirecostly components, they can teleport, and they can summon other creatures.
Those physical forms can have different equipment from the norm, magic items, tattoos, and so on.

Eidolons are different from both. I have always treated them as leaving the equipment behind when unsummoned, as the eidolon lacks a physical existence when unsummoned, but, as JJ said, it is an undefined aspect of the rules.

A guardian spirit born of Summon Guardian Spirit is another beast altogether.
It is a creature with a life outside the use of the ability, but allowing people to summon them with gear that was given to them during their previous summoning become complicate.

What happens if an opponent Sunders or Steals the item? It disappears at the end of the summoning, and is it again present and functional? Is it forever lost and unreparable?

What happens if you give it a wand? Doesn't it work because it uses a kind of costly component (the wand charges)? Is it fully charged at each summoning?

Maybe the specific player or group will not try to exploit that, but it is better to avoid this kind of question from the start.

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