Getting In The Way of Pyrotechnic Eruption On a Flying Creature

[Allen Cohn]

Hello!

Do you have any thoughts/analyses on whether a creature can get caught in the path of Pyrotechnic Eruption cast on another creature who is flying?

The spell has its Target of one creature. And it says that the fire erupts from the ground to surround the target.

But what if that target is flying and another creature is underneath the target, such as on the ground? Would the interposing creature take any damage?

Thanks!

[Taja the Barbarian]

Yeah, Pyrotechnic Eruption is a 'great flavor can lead to horrible mechanics' spell: If you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean, is the ship's deck the 'ground' or is it the ocean floor two and a half miles beneath you? If you are flying at the edge of space above the Marianas Trench, does a mid-level spell really create a flame that instantly shoots through 7 miles of incredibly dense water and 62 miles of rapidly thinning air to reach your target?

Personally, I'd probably just read 'Ground' as 'Bottom side of the square(s) currently occupied by the target' to make it work more smoothly: The flames always start right beneath you and have no effect on creatures above or below you (unless they try to touch you, of course).

[Phoebus Alexandros]

Let's look at the spell. The first paragraph has two key sentences:

1. "The caster causes jets of flame to erupt from the ground and surround the target."

That's the effect, after which we are given the damage the spell deals and the save the target needs to make to take half damage.

2. "If the target moves, the pyrotechnic eruption follows, even if the target teleports."

That's an important qualifier: the caster doesn't designate a spot in which the eruption occurs hoping the jets of flame "surround the target" if he picked the right place and the right time. The jets of flame will surround the target. The Reflex save simply determines to what extent the target is damaged.

The next paragraph details what happens if a third party touches the target or tries to take its place as the target. The first example (touching the target) presumes the target has already been surrounded by the jets of flame. The second example (replacing the target) could, pending GM's concurrence, occur before the target has been affected, but that would require an ability, feat, or spell that allowed it to do so as an immediate action or as a readied action. In either case, though, the examples point to a willing actor--not a bystander who happens to be in the way.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

To somewhat echo Taja, there are certain limits and obstacles to magic. One example would be the environment:

Attacks from Land: "Spells or spell-like effects with the fire descriptor are ineffective underwater unless the caster makes a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the spell creates a bubble of steam instead of its usual fiery effect, but otherwise the spell works as described. A supernatural fire effect is ineffective underwater unless its description states otherwise. The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell."

https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=48

So, to use Taja's oceanic example, even if a GM ruled that Pyrotechnic Eruption can travel the whole depth of an ocean to reach a single creature within 170 feet of a 7th level Wizard, the spell wouldn't affect the target if it were above the surface of the ocean.

Of course, even if the Wizard did making a DC 24 caster level check to make Pyrotechnic Eruption function underwater, them GM could reasonably argue that jets of steam traveling thousands of feet underwater is too powerful an effect for a 4th level spell.

[Azothath]

*sigh* poor wording in the spell description for a RPG product.
GM interpretation is going to play a large role with Pyrotechnic Eruption:K4.

Common assumptions would be that the target is on the ground and that the target teleports within the initial spell range. A generous GM might give you 'within 20 ft of the ground'.
Targets could leave the range and come back in. Normally spells would lose the target if the target goes beyond the spell's range (spiritual weapon). The GM should set a maximum duration time in case he thinks it should work if the target returns within range.

IMO Targets on a ship are not valid targets. There's positional ground and then ground like standing on the earth. The context here is literally on the earth. #2 water is an obstacle to line of effect for [fire] spells. Bathtub yes (as 8 squares of ground surround the 'body of water' in the tub on the ground floor and the flames surround the target); bridgerton boatride on a pond no.

= = =
as a player just take Dragon's Breath:K4 and avoid the controversy. better spell, better street pizza

[Belafon]

TL;DR - treat it as "flames surround the target."

95%+ of the time, the first sentence of a spell description is "visualize the spell as doing this" rather than meant to be picked apart as rules text. Most of the time we just read past it because nothing in that sentence could possibly be interpreted as mechanical. The first sentence of bull's strength is "The subject becomes stronger." There's no way to use that sentence to put any kind of exceptions, caveats, or conditions on the rest of the spell's "you get a +4 enhancement bonus to strength." However sometimes we can go too far down a rabbit hole trying to extract meaning from something intended to be flavorful.

Take something super-basic like color spray.

Quote:

A vivid cone of clashing colors springs forth from your hand, causing creatures to become stunned, perhaps also blinded, and possibly knocking them unconscious.

Now let's start nitpicking and we can use that sentence to come up with edge cases where the spell doesn't function as intended.

-"Ah-hah! Your creature doesn't have hands so it can't use color spray, even as a spell-like ability, since it springs forth from your hand!"
-"Sorry players, the BBEG is color-blind. The colors don't register as clashing to him so he is immune."

If pyrotechnic eruption required ground of some kind to be within a certain range, or affected anyone in a column between the ground and a flying target, or especially if the target had to be touching the ground, it would (should) say so. But it doesn't. So it just affects the target.