Proposed change to Adrenaline to make it feel and work better

[shroudb]

My main two issues with Daredevil are:
a)the defining features are way too weak. Basically equivalent to a level 1 and a level 6 lcass feats. That makes the whole class basically crumble even though the "design" of it, and especially some of the feats, is really intriguing.

b)Adrenaline doesn't feel like Adrenaline. There is no "sense" of chasing after new heights of it round by round. I't basically an on/off switch that it's not even hard to turn on.

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A simple change to Adrenaline imo could help with both of those:

Instead of being on/off give it a value. Make it last until end of your next turn instead of start of your next turn, but every time you refresh it each round the counter increases.

So, the 1st time you gain Adrenaline, it's Adrenaline 1, if you get next round, it goes to 2, and finally it stops at 3 at round 3 the earliest.

Then have it give something like "you gain your Adrenaline value as a circumstance bonus to maneuvers."

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Obviously, Risky actions should be rebalanced to be more... risky to continously perform, but in general I think this change would give both an edge to Daredevil mechanically that he desparetely needs atm but also thematically showcase the Adrenaline theme of getting better the higher it gets and chasing after it round after round.

[OceanshieldwolPF 2.5]

I was a bit bemused by the on/off nature of Adrenaline. It seems like it was an interesting idea that never saw further development. The current class looks like someone saw some of Interjection Games Maneuver-based classes for PF1 and tried to emulate them with nowhere near the level of inspiration or execution.

(Then again, I said the same exact thing about the Necromancer and Rune-whatever - just goes to show that Bradley Crouch was one hell of a designer…)

[Castilliano]

Adrenaline pumping up to new levels makes all kinds of sense. I'd like to see a Sickened effect afterward too, maybe temp hit points, and bonus to all Athletics/Acrobatics, not simply maneuvers (think lifting a car off of one's child). And combat is innately Risky, so maybe more triggers (like from close calls).

Moreover I'd like more ways to spend Adrenaline, like it's a fluctuating pool one needs to maintain both offensively and defensively (to make up for the class's fragility). Then there's certainly risk, much like spending one's last Hero Point to reroll an attack makes you vulnerable on your next bad save roll or if Dying. That'd help emphasize the risk/reward aspect of the class, having actual resources to gamble.

ETA: Maybe Sickened if you didn't spend off your Adrenaline before combat ended. Not allowed to horde it to play it safe.

[exequiel759]

There could be potential for adrenaline having some sort of bonus and downside that goes up each turn, like an adrenaline rush of some sort.

If the daredevil was 12+Con HP classes, I could see adrenaline granting a bonus to Athletics maneuvers that goes by 1 each turn but in turn you get a penalty to AC equal to that bonus, with you losing adrenaline when taking a critical hit as it stops your adrenaline rush.

[YuriP]

My problem with current playtest adrenaline it's because most Risky actions are also Press. This turns the first action basically a Strike without adrenaline or just make some athletics maneuver and then use some press action doesn't carry about Risky trait of this action.

[Perpdepog]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought it'd be neat for Adrenaline to have a value that increases as you go. No idea what it'd do, but that feels like it'd be a real nice insentive for you to keep using your Risky moves round after round. As it stands you can take a turn off and not really seem to feel it, which feels like it goes against what the class is wanting to do.

Of course, the issue you then have is that it's not going to really feel like your class is fully online for the first couple rounds, which people have traditionally been opposed to.

Maybe each round of adrenaline causes your MAP for Press actions to go down by an additional one? So your first round its -4 rather than -5, and then -3, and -2, and so on. It'd really encourage the daredevil to keep pushing their luck with Risky abilities; crit fails are going to happen sometimes, even if your MAP is 0.

[Teridax]

I honestly question what adrenaline is even meant to achieve on the current class, to be honest. Yes, the Daredevil is an adrenaline junkie who's constantly seeking new thrills, but that's kind of what happens already just by using their feats. All the adrenaline mechanic does at the moment in my opinion is limit the Daredevil's range and order of actions when the class is already constrained by environmental features and other props. I'd rather the class had the freedom to make use of their environment and enemies in the moment, instead of constantly having to turn on a buff first.

I do however like the bonus to maneuvers proposed in the OP, and I fully agree that the Daredevil could stand to have far less of a penalty for using maneuvers in succession. In fact, I'd be totally in favor of a really crazy strong feature for this, so instead of their current Audacious Combatant feature you could instead just have the class not take any MAP at all when using an attack with an Athletics or Acrobatics skill check. This, combined with action compression from their feats, could potentially reinforce the class's niche as a disruptive mover of enemies without needing to rely on a mechanic whose similarity to panache draws only further comparisons to the Swashbuckler.

[Castilliano]

Yeah, it feels like faux-Panache. Have/don't have, nothing resembling an actual physical rush or aftereffects thereof; more like a temporary agility or clarity to perform gymnastics.

If Adrenaline had more uses (much like some feats at higher levels) and losing Adrenaline had a downside, then we'd have a risk/reward PC. Gotta keep pumping it up with consistent stunts rather than simply activate on select rounds. There should be few rounds where simply Strikes are preferred, yet as noted by another elsewhere, that's often the best opener. (Followed by a Risky non-attack then Press I suppose.)

"Should I spend some Adrenaline on a burst of temp h.p., risking that my enemy might steal my last Adrenaline (likely via crits) thus making me Sickened 1 until the end of combat?" That's more what I expect (along w/ better/worse crits).