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Titan Wrestler
Prerequisites: trained in Athletics
You can attempt to Disarm, Grapple, Reposition, Shove, or Trip creatures up to two sizes larger than you, or up to three sizes larger than you if you’re legendary in Athletics.
Forceful Kickoff Stunt
Requirements: The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.
Rebounding Fall Stunt
Requirements: The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.
Flying Hurdle Stunt
Requirements The target can’t be more than one size larger than you.
Q: Is Titan Wrestler also meant to affect these daredevil feats?
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The short answer is NO!
The long answer is that's why playtest exists. For us to complain about things like this. :P
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@YuriP: LOL... it often happens when new abilities get created, i.e. the entirety of the previous system is massive, and it would be unwieldy to state half a dozen exceptions or previous feat adaptations in the new class ability description. It's better to keep the new class simple I think... *some* of the daredevil abilities will still work with Titan Wrestler I think, such as Daring Stunt, so TW feat is still very much useful IMO, especially for small races.
The question is inverted, since Titan Wrestler predates the new abilities...which should, hopefully will, clarify that they work with Titan Wrestler. Otherwise yeah, lots of feats will lose breadth over time in ways that other martials seldom worry about.
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As written, Titan Wrestler does not modify the size restrictions of the Daredevil's feats. Whether or not this is intended is up for question, because it looks like there's meant to be an inherent set of tradeoffs between going for a smaller or larger size when playing the class. Personally, though, I'd rather remove the restrictions both ways and bake the feat into the class's features, because in practice it does help with a lot of other feats already.
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The maneuvers scaling as you level would be nice.
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Something needs to change here. There's a lot of enemies in the game that all this stuff turns off against, and even more if you try to play a small ancestry.
"You can't do a bunch of Daredevil feats against a dragon, but you can do a generic Trip because Titan Wrestler" just feels off.
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Honestly, I think the designers simply should remove the size requirements from the feats.
Even putting in an ability that allows the size requirements to increase over the level. In this, it will simply end in a situation where you are just forbidden to fight well because the current adventure, for some lore reason, put in more big enemies than normal, and you should wait until you become strong enough to deal with them.
Maybe someone can state that creatures with resistances are already in this situation too, so it's fair for a daredevil to have creatures that limit their abilities, but this isn't true because the system balance already considers that when a creature has some resistance, it needs to be balanced by having a smaller AC or HP or getting a weakness. Big creatures don't have that kind of balance. At maximum, they have their AC reduced by 1 as compensation; this isn't enough to justify disabling a lot of a specific class's abilities.
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I agree, I honestly don't think it would be broken for a Daredevil of any size to be able to move creatures of any size, nor even use props of any size. Given how situational repositioning and props are to begin with, the more opportunities the class has to make use of those, the better.
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I agree, I honestly don't think it would be broken for a Daredevil of any size to be able to move creatures of any size, nor even use props of any size. Given how situational repositioning and props are to begin with, the more opportunities the class has to make use of those, the better.
It's also the class identity, in a lot of ways. That needs to work against iconic enemies otherwise what's the point? "My class doesn't function against a dragon" is an absolutely baffling design decision for a class built around taking risks and using maneuvers with the scenery?
What could fit that more than trying to use those on on a giant dragon?
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I think it's better to just remove the size requirement entirely. It just doesn't make sense to create a scenario where the daredevil's whole core conceit stops working.
I honestly kind of don't even know how it got this far. "All your features and feat disable against enemies that are past a certain size" is absurdly debilitating.
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I think it's better to just remove the size requirement entirely. It just doesn't make sense to create a scenario where the daredevil's whole core conceit stops working.
I honestly kind of don't even know how it got this far. "All your features and feat disable against enemies that are past a certain size" is absurdly debilitating.
Even so I think they should still get it for free at level 1. You're a class that's very dependent on your atheltics maenuvers and you're going to be forced into it eventually.
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Responding to this briefly: personal recommendation for Titan Wrestler implementation into this class is give it to Daredevil as an early level bonus feat (level 1, 3 at latest) and include as text in the class feature that grants it that Daredevil feats that are restricted based on size are also affected by it. You can add an additional addendum saying that at 7 or 13 they can do an extra size over what Titan Wrestler allows for as part of the same rules text without too much issue I feel.
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Responding to this briefly: personal recommendation for Titan Wrestler implementation into this class is give it to Daredevil as an early level bonus feat (level 1, 3 at latest) and include as text in the class feature that grants it that Daredevil feats that are restricted based on size are also affected by it. You can add an additional addendum saying that at 7 or 13 they can do an extra size over what Titan Wrestler allows for as part of the same rules text without too much issue I feel.What's the advantage of doing that rather than including the higher limit (or none at all) in the affected feats directly?
Twofold, although the second can be debated as to being a banefit; its more a lever designers can use or adjust as they see fit:
1: Including it as a centralized part of the class means you can clarify the feat as it applies to Daredevil directly in the class itself and how the feat is changed without needing to go back and errata an old rulebook. Similarly, centralizing the rules text for affected sizes saves wordcount on the feats themselves.
2: If it becomes a concern that Daredevil feats will be overly popular as dips, this modified titan wrestler being a part of the core class itself and not baked into the feats will limit the use cases for other classes taking DD feats. Of course, this assumes this would be an issue in the first place; right now most people seem to think the Fighter actions are stronger dip options anyways. If this isn't desired, the size DD feats affect can be written into a trait, that way it maintains the benefits of being written down in a centralized location while travelling with the feat in the event someone MC's into Daredevil.