|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Hello Pathfinder 1e Masterminds,
I want to build a stealth-oriented Monk, and the Unchained Monk / Unchained Ninja combination seems to work very well for this type of character.
In this campaign, I am filling the “rogue” role, but I want to fight unarmed, relying on fists instead of weapons.
The general plan is to deliver Sneak Attack damage in the first round, then use Vanish, reposition, set up flanking, and continue striking. Mobility, stealth, and efficient Ki usage are the core themes of the build. I am also planning to buy a Ki Mastery Ring, mainly so Ninja Tricks can be used more cheaply for flavor and utility.
Classes
Unchained Monk
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/Monk-unchained/#TOC-Styl e-Strike-Ex-
Unchained Ninja
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/CLASSES/UNCHAINED-CLASSES/ROGUE-UNCHAINED/ALTERNAT E-CLASSES/EVERYMAN-GAMING-UNCHAINED-NINJA/#TOC-Style-Strike-Ex-
Character Details
Race: Human
Starting Level: 2
Expected Maximum Level: Around 12 (possibly earlier)
Ability Scores:
STR 10
DEX 16 +2
CON 14
WIS 15
INT 10
CHA 8
Starting Gold: 1,000 gp
Planned purchase: Bracers of Armor +1
Traits (2)
Quain Martial Artist (Heavy Hitter): +1 trait bonus on damage rolls with unarmed attacks
Reactionary: +2 Initiative
Level Progress
1) Dodge, Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Jabbing Style, Weapon Focus
2) Weapon Finesse,
3) Ki Pool, Ninja Trick: Pressure Point, Extra Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick
4) AS +1 Wis, Finesse training,
5) Uncanny Dodge, Dispatchment, Ninja Trick: Forgotten Trick, Piranha Strike
6) Evasion, Combat Reflexes
7) Improved Initiative
8) AS +1 Dex, Qinggong Monk (Barkskin)
9) Style Strike: Flying Kick, Jabbing Dancer or Shadow Strike
10) Mobility, Elemental Fury
11) Extra Ki or Iron Will
12) AS +1 Dex, Abundant Step
Thank you in advance for your help with optimization, rules interactions, and any suggestions or improvements you might have for this build.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
At 10th level or higher - I would try to get Invisible Blade. Greater Invisibility allows you to get sneak attack on ALL your attacks.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Invisible Blade has a prerequisite of 10th level Ninja, the character only has 4 levels of Ninja so will not qualify.
Jabbing master requires Mobility, but you are not taking that until 10th level, so you can not take Jabbing Master at 9th.
Extra Ki would be my choice for your last feat. You are relying heavly on your KI pool so every extra point helps. You also have still mind that gives you +2 to saves vs enchantments. That does not work vs everything requiring a will save, but it does work vs a lot of them.
ADVICE:
so Human 20 pt buy
Unch Monk 5 {from Style Strike}
Unch Ninja(under Rogue, Everyman Gaming) 5
as a multiclass you are not really picking up an array of abilities, it's kinda more of the same. Usually the strategy is to go 1-2 levels in a secondary class to bolster the primary class. Otherwise you limit access to higher class level abilities as class levels do not combine(stack){it would be rare}.
As you are relying on a lot of magical tricks, I'd think about going;
Class-> Wizard-Diviner 1 (replacing Ki tricks and bracers with mage armor, arcane spell list access for Splcrft over UMD), Monk-Flowing 2 (for ImpUnArmdAtk & +3,3,3 to svs, and some maneuvers), then go Ninja(Ch or Unch) 7+.
Abil-> 20pts= [STR 12, DEX 18(+2 racl), CON 12, INT 13, WIS 13, CHA 10] which spreads everything about and +1 Wis at 4th Lvl.
Trait-> You'll need Trt:Magical Knack (Wiz), and Trt:Bred for War(Human-Shoanti), Child of Two Peoples(Human), Enduring Spellcraft(Human-azlanti), or Resilient.
While you may think IUS is the way to go, weapons are better and cheaper. With high Dex ranged attacks are going to be a bright spot.
A more focused build would be just;
Class-> Wiz-Dvnr 1, Ninja 9+
Abil-> 20pts= [12, 19(+2 racl), 12, 13, 10, 10].
Mysterious Stranger wrote: Invisible Blade has a prerequisite of 10th level Ninja, the character only has 4 levels of Ninja so will not qualify.
didn't build it, and he didn't list what class he had taken at what levels, didn't feel like sorting it out.
He is picking up DEX to damage from the Unchained Ninja. For a finesse build that is incredibly useful, but he only needs to go 3 levels of unchained ninja to get that. Going to 4th level gets him uncanny dodge and dispatchment. Being able to keep both the DEX and WIS while flatfooted is actually pretty good. Dispatchment is +2 to hit when the target loses his DEX bonus or is flanking his target makes it more likely that he will hit with his sneak attack.
Normally going 4 levels does not gain you much, but in this case it does. At 3rd level when he gets DEX to damage it adds +4 to damage, by 12th level he should have around a +7 DEX bonus with a belt of dexterity. At 12th level he should also be getting around a +12 AC due to DEX and WIS, uncanny dodge means even when you catch him unprepared, he still has a good AC.
The plan is to start with 1 level of Monk, then take 4 levels of Ninja, and put the rest into Monk.
The core of the character is a shadow-style monk who fights with fists. Unarmed combat and mobility are the main focus.
I’ll be spending most of my Ki on extra attacks and vanish, while the ninja abilities are mainly there for roleplay and utility, not raw power
I’ve considered going 5 levels of Ninja for the extra Sneak Attack die and the style strike that costs 1 Ki, but that would delay important Monk features Since Monk is the heart of the build, Ninja should complement it, not slow it down
I’m not really feeling the magic-heavy options, but thanks for the tip — I’ll take a look at them anyway.
I would not take the 5th level in Ninja; all you really need is 3 levels. But I can understand going for 4 for uncanny dodge, dispatchment and the ninja trick. I am not sure that pressure points is worth spending a feat on. If you really want that 3rd die of sneak attack take accomplished sneak attack instead of extra ki, or iron will.
If you take the alternative racial trait focused study you get skill focus at 1st and 8th level in place of the bonus feat. Skill focus stealth and latter perception would be good. Delay jabbing style or weapon focus until 3rd.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: I would not take the 5th level in Ninja; all you really need is 3 levels. But I can understand going for 4 for uncanny dodge, dispatchment and the ninja trick. I am not sure that pressure points is worth spending a feat on. If you really want that 3rd die of sneak attack take accomplished sneak attack instead of extra ki, or iron will.
If you take the alternative racial trait focused study you get skill focus at 1st and 8th level in place of the bonus feat. Skill focus stealth and latter perception would be good. Delay jabbing style or weapon focus until 3rd.
I want the second ninja trick mainly for roleplay reasons. That’s why I’m taking Pressure Points as a feat—I don’t want to go all the way to level 6 just to get another ninja trick.
I really like the idea that every time I hit an enemy, I can exploit their weaknesses: lowering their Dexterity so I can hit them more easily, or weakening a Strength-based enemy so their attacks become less accurate and less dangerous. It fits perfectly with the concept of a kung fu master who understands the body and knows exactly where to strike.
If there’s a feat that offers a similar effect, I’m open to suggestions.
Accomplished Sneak Attacker also sounds very appealing.
I still need to do the math to see how much Skill Focus really gives me on the skill-monkey side, and what I’d be giving up by choosing it.
Skill focus gives you +3 to the skill until you have 10 points in the skill, then it gives you +6. With focused study you get skill focus at 1st, 8th and 16th level. Basically, you trade out a singe feat for up to 3 feats. Since you are only going up to 12th level you will only gain 2 feats.
Pressure Points only does a single point of ability damage. Since it takes 2 points to lower a bonus you are probably not weakening your opponent with every hit. Most of the time it will take 2 hits to weaken your target. It also only works when you get sneak attack. Getting sneak attack on multiple attacks is often hard to do. Vanishing will get your sneak attack on the first hit but after that you are visible and will not get sneak attack. You will need to flank your target to be able to deal sneak attack with more than one hit.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: Skill focus gives you +3 to the skill until you have 10 points in the skill, then it gives you +6. With focused study you get skill focus at 1st, 8th and 16th level. Basically, you trade out a singe feat for up to 3 feats. Since you are only going up to 12th level you will only gain 2 feats.
Pressure Points only does a single point of ability damage. Since it takes 2 points to lower a bonus you are probably not weakening your opponent with every hit. Most of the time it will take 2 hits to weaken your target. It also only works when you get sneak attack. Getting sneak attack on multiple attacks is often hard to do. Vanishing will get your sneak attack on the first hit but after that you are visible and will not get sneak attack. You will need to flank your target to be able to deal sneak attack with more than one hit.
My strategy is to catch the target flat-footed, land two attacks with sneak attack damage, and then reduce their Dexterity (and therefore AC). Depending on the situation, I either use Vanish to reposition or go for an extra attack to apply sneak attack again.
Since we have a samurai and his animal companion in melee, I’ll be flanking whenever possible to reliably trigger sneak attack.
That’s the main reason I like Ninja 4. Compared to a standard rogue or ninja, I’m bulkier, while still benefiting from sneak attack, stealth, and a wide skill set. This makes me more flexible in combat and outside of it.
Skill Focus also seems very strong for this concept, helping me consistently succeed at the key skills the build relies on.
Thx for your help
Flatfooted is only really going to apply at the beginning of combat. The other problem you will have is that you cannot get multiple attacks if you move more than a 5 foot step. That is probably going to limit your ability to catch your target flatfooted and still get multiple attacks. If you need to move to attack or to get into a flanking position you are limited to a single attack. I am not saying your strategy will never work, but I do not think you will be able to pull off multiple sneak attacks as often as you think.
Personally, I would go for fast stealth instead. The extra move from the monk makes that very useful.
Recent threads in General Discussion
|
